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Repair costs vs Pugs


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I would like to start by saying that the repair costs in guild runs will hardly bother me as guild run wipes are usually kept to a minimum due to the fact I lead our guilds raids and are funded by guild repairs anyway.

 

I am the type of player that likes to help pugs and other guilds learn and develop their tactics on boss fights, when TFB HM came out I did not care about spending 5 hours from midnight till 5am on an alt char wiping over and over until I got a pug group to learn the tactics, this meant they could then teach others and pug groups for raids that people usually would not attempt then began to happen on our server.

 

After spending 3 hours in EC HM yesterday wiping on zorn and toth then firebrand and storm caller trying to teach people how to improve I end up with a total repair cost around the 350k mark.

 

Now I'm faced with the situation do I stop helping others with my alts and only raid with guild so I do not waste all my in game funds on repairs ? This to me seems a rather selfish thing to do .... the raiding community on my server will only lose if I chose this option, but its getting to the point where I am almost forced to do this.

 

Bioware devs ... are you trying to close the door for pug raids and inexperienced players with these new costs ?

Edited by Loki_
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+1

 

It has been posited that BW is trying to add a money sink to the game to combat inflation by removing currency from circulation.

 

If this is the actual purpose behind the repair cost increases, surely there is an alternative that will have the same effect? Way back when, as a new player I would never have discovered that I enjoyed end-game raiding were there not helpful people that were willing to spend time teaching me as I fumbled my way through HM FPs and Ops.

 

The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding. The "pros" who were willing to help out pugs and get them better at the game will dry up unless this is addressed.

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I've stopped teaming up with random people on my sentinel and vanguard. Still tank pug fp's and the occassional easier operation on my shadow, but that's only because I exit combat and run away to avoid a death. I'm not inclined to pay a huge amount for my repairs on top of spending hours teaching random people the tactics.
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The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding.

 

I'm sorry but you're SO wrong.

All people have to do is daily quests.

1 round of Ilum, Black Hole and Section X will net you a ton of credits, not to mention vendoring/GTN all the stuff that drops.

People really need to stop crying about repairs when it's so easy to offset the cost.

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I'm sorry but you're SO wrong.

All people have to do is daily quests.

1 round of Ilum, Black Hole and Section X will net you a ton of credits, not to mention vendoring/GTN all the stuff that drops.

People really need to stop crying about repairs when it's so easy to offset the cost.

 

So all we have to do is spend 2 hours so we can get the money to help people we don't know through content because we feel like being nice?

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable.. this is the reason my guild has stopped pugging pretty much everything now. No reason to waste our credits due to group finder or some guild that is struggling to clear content. Excellent way to improve community among the servers.

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So all we have to do is spend 2 hours so we can get the money to help people we don't know through content because we feel like being nice?

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable.. this is the reason my guild has stopped pugging pretty much everything now. No reason to waste our credits due to group finder or some guild that is struggling to clear content. Excellent way to improve community among the servers.

 

I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs.

those 3 daily sections don't take 2 hours.

can all be done in about an hour or a little over an hour total.

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I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs.

those 3 daily sections don't take 2 hours.

can all be done in about an hour or a little over an hour total.

You sort of glossed over my whole point, didn't you?

 

So you've never liked pugs. Then my complaint doesn't really apply to you, now does it?

 

The players who previously were willing to run pugs because they liked helping other people aren't going to do that anymore because they'll be throwing money down the drain.

 

Edit: I'm pretty much on the same page as zeshakha. I have a guild, we have funds for our own raids. We used to bring pugs in. We don't any more. Savvy?

Edited by Khevar
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seems like you didn't read the part of your post that I quoted.

try reading that again.

Didn't read it? I wrote it.

... The higher repair costs means that only organized guilds with adequate funds will be able to do progression raiding. ...

So let's take this statement. I'm saying that if you're not in an organized guild, and you don't have adequate funds, you won't be able to do progression raiding. "Able" to is perhaps too strong a word. "Much harder" would perhaps be more accurate.

 

In progression raiding the group is expected to wipe as it gets familiar with the boss and learns how to coordinate with the group. As the group gets better, it wipes less and less. In a guild, the same group of people will often be doing the progression raiding together, until the fights are mastered and bring other people in.

 

In a guild, there is a guild bank, and people contribute to it.

 

If you're NOT in a guild, and you want to do progression raiding, you have to pug it.

 

The MAIN point I'm trying to make is that the higher repair costs means that the experienced players that USED to help out pugs WON'T want to waste the credits.

I'm talking about repairs in general, doing pugs is your choice.. .personally I've never liked pugs. ...

Oh Snap! You don't like pugs. And you're talking about repairs in general. I'm talking about repairs during progression raids while pugging.

 

OMG! It's almost like we're talking about completely different things!

 

Edit: It also sounds like you didn't read the title of this thread.

Edited by Khevar
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Although this has been mentioned quite a few of times since they introduced the higher repair costs, for some reason your post resonated with me - mainly because you're not crying about how your guild is sooo poor it's going to affect your progression.

 

I don't really care much either way, because I have the credits for the repairs and I get enough money from crafting and selling that i don't have to worry about the repair costs even with pugs, but it is a valid point that people who pug the "hardest" parts of the end-game content will choose to avoid pugging (and therefore helping out new people, even when that's not their intention) if it means that they'll have to pay up to a million for repairs for 2-3 raids.

 

If for some reason (which I don't quite get, but it's not my call anyway) Bioware thinks that repair costs should be higher than what they've been until now, they can choose to keep them at the same level while at the same time doing one of two things:

1. Make repairs in raids cost less than the rest of the content or give much higher credit rewards for killing mobs in them (which doesn't really seem doable or even logical but you never know...). They could even make the Legacy Repair Droid repair stuff for much lower prices, thus promoting a legacy perk and helping people who raid at the same time.

2. Make the rewards from completing PVE dailies and weeklies significantly higher, so that people will have an additional reason to actually kill those bosses and not give up after the 2nd-3rd try.

 

Again, I think the best solution would be to lower the repair costs in general - they don't even have to be as low as they were, but definitely lower than what they are right now. The game should facilitate grouping up with people even if they're not from your guild. And that would benefit both the guilds that would be able to find new recruits easier than waiting for someone to fill out an application on their site and the pugs that would have an easier time finding and maintaining a group that wouldn't give up after the second wipe because they wouldn't want to spend all their credits repairing.

 

As someone else pointed out, you can make credits very easily in the game, but on the other hand that should be a personal preference not something that you MUST do in order to be able to even take part in end-game content.

Edited by TheNahash
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The only thing higher repair costs does is discourage progression content by penalizing the player even more that participates in end game content.

 

it also discourages grouping in PuGs. I won't even entertain for one second joining a PuG for Lost Island now that the repair costs are ridiculous. This hurts, not helps the game.

 

If the devs want more money sinks they need to be more meaningful. Not a penalty for participating in content.

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What is wrong with you people?

THE REPAIR COSTS AREN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

1-1/2 hours of daily's will give you the money for repair costs!

Oh no,people actually have to put in a little effort to maintain their wallet, the humanity! How dare they devs actually expect us to work for our rewards!

Edited by Thundergulch
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If the devs want more money sinks they need to be more meaningful. Not a penalty for participating in content.

 

I don't even think that was their reasoning for it.

I mean, there are already so many credit sinks in the game - legacy perks, cartel items on the GTN, remodding and augmenting etc. - that it doesn't really make much sense that anyone would think "yeah, this game needs more credit sinks".

I personally think it's something they always considered a bug that they only now got around to fixing but (like the GTN issue) people are generally not happy when changes are made - especially if those changes don't exactly make sense anymore or don't really help with anything.

 

If we were in the pre-Legacy period, when there were so few things you could buy that people had credits and nothing to do with them it would've (kinda) made sense, but now...not so much.

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What is wrong with you people?

THE REPAIR COSTS AREN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

1-1/2 hours of daily's will give you the money for repair costs!

Oh no,people actually have to put in a little effort to maintain their wallet, the humanity! How dare they devs actually expect us to work for our rewards!

 

They might not be a huge deal to you or me, but it is to some people.

Every change the devs make affects the game and people's willingness to do or not do certain parts of it. For example, if they remove Black Hole comms from FPs, I'll never do one again. When a change makes people want to pug less, it's a bad change. Not everyone HAS to be in a guild. Not everyone HAS to have millions of credits.

 

Or, to bring money into the discussion, a game that asks a F2P player for money to take part in an operation but at the same time lowers his chances of finding a group to complete it, doesn't really make much sense.

Edited by TheNahash
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What is wrong with you people?

THE REPAIR COSTS AREN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

1-1/2 hours of daily's will give you the money for repair costs!

Oh no,people actually have to put in a little effort to maintain their wallet, the humanity! How dare they devs actually expect us to work for our rewards!

 

Yet another brain dead stooge who jumps in and replies without bothering to understand what the OP is talking about.

 

There have been times where I have wiped for over an hour in an effort to teach people LI. How likely am I to do that now that it will cost me an ADDITIONAL hour of my time to grind daily's to make up the cost in repairs? The increased cost acts as a disincentive to help new players learn the game. This should be a concern for the dev's because it means new players are less likely to renew their subscription or continue to pump money in via the Cartel Market.

 

Increased repair costs are likely to result in decreased revenue in the long run. How is that for an argument for EA?

Edited by RandomXChance
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So all we have to do is spend 2 hours so we can get the money to help people we don't know through content because we feel like being nice?

 

Sounds perfectly reasonable.. this is the reason my guild has stopped pugging pretty much everything now. No reason to waste our credits due to group finder or some guild that is struggling to clear content. Excellent way to improve community among the servers.

 

+1. My patience for wiping with PUGs went way down with the increase in repair bills.

 

I do dailies to get more credits so I can buy the things I want, not to make up for other's mistakes.

Edited by Infalliable
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What is wrong with you people?

THE REPAIR COSTS AREN'T THAT BIG OF A DEAL!

1-1/2 hours of daily's will give you the money for repair costs!

Oh no,people actually have to put in a little effort to maintain their wallet, the humanity! How dare they devs actually expect us to work for our rewards!

A wild debater appears. He casts "shout viewpoint." It is super ineffective.

 

Look, it's obvious that you're frustrated by complaints about repair costs. You've expressed your point very clearly in practically every thread on the subject.

 

You aren't noticing what this thread is about. The willingness of experienced players to work with pugs for progression due to the additional repair costs.

 

Edit: Let me try to be crystal clear here:

 

1. My guild has plenty of money to cover our repair costs for raids.

2. Raising the repair cost did not affect our raid schedule.

3. Many players in my guild (who are mostly full 63) used to participate in pugs in the server.

4. This was to help out, to meet potential new guildies, to get a good repulation on the server, to run ops for our alts.

5. The repair costs used to be low enough that we were tolerant of wipes.

6. Not any more.

7. We've stopped pugging ops so we save our money for guild runs.

 

You've already stated that you aren't interested in pugs. Therefore this thread has nothing to do with you.

Edited by Khevar
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And how we have this:

Hi everyone,

 

Thank you all for your feedback on the changes to repair costs introduced with Game Update 1.7. Upon review, we agree with you that repair costs did become too high with this latest Game Update. To that end, we will be making a change to how these repair costs are calculated, starting with our next scheduled maintenance. Repair costs will now be calculated based on the combined value of all the mods installed in the shell, excluding the value of the shell itself. Players will see a noticeable reduction immediately after the change goes in.

 

Additionally, we’d like to apologize for the inconvenience that we introduced.

 

As a thank you for your patience during this time, we will also be reducing ALL repair costs by 50% once the aforementioned change goes in with the next scheduled maintenance. This will last all the way through until early access to Rise of the Hutt Cartel launches.

 

Your feedback is important to us, and we hope that this resolution alleviates the repair costs concerns. Thanks again for your patience.

So thank you Bioware for listening.

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1. I like the fact that repair costs are actually a noticable chunk of your income, you need to maintain your equipment and you should be able to feel it in your wallet.

 

2. The increase was too big, I stopped doing some flashpoints in GF's because I simply cant afford 100k to let a tank learn to fight every boss for the first time. This has happened a lot in T2+ flashpoints/raids using GF.

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