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Is anyone else disappointed with the Exile's and Revan's Legacy in SWTOR


Korton

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(SPOILERS - REVAN AND EXILE IN SWTOR)

We all know Bioware used to be the Gods of good stories, ME series, Kotor series, DA: Origins and more! I just did the maelstrom today and the whole flashpoint felt so cheesy. I was really cringing when the exile started talking to Raven it was just horrible writing and script. I also learned how Revan gets ''defeated'' by the Imperials in one of their flashpoints which was also very disappointing.

 

I just expected much more than being caught by emperor, prisoner, rescued, sais 4 lines and leaves, ''runs away'' from imps in flashpoint later on.

 

I just wish they continued with the whole ''mystery and secret'' theme we were left with. Yes, there are good stories in this game, and yes there is many of them but for me Revan's + The Exile's Legacy was completely ruined.

 

/Discuss

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Extremely.

 

I played both KoToR and KoToR II so many times trying to find clues of what happened with Revan or what could possibly happen next with their stories if their was a game 3 to be released. KoToR 2 especially. I played male, female, light side, dark side, gray; killed the Jedi Masters one by one, left them all alive, fought only 3 and saved 1 just to see the different outcomes to find out what they would reveal about Revan. I put up with Mical's annoying whiny sniveling and questioning. I ignored Carth always stopping me to answer questions only to not give me any REAL answers at the end of KoToR II just to get a glimpse what would be possible in the future. I put up with Kreia!!

 

And what happened? Well...

 

 

Revan is captured by the Sith Emperor for 300 years and the Exile is killed after attempting to return to the Sith Empire to stop them from invading the republic. The books did not do them justice. Not Revan and not the exile.

 

 

NOT the ending I wanted for our heroes. But....let me say this. I thoroughly enjoy the game and will play it as long as I can before tiring of it. Might even go back and play KoToR again.

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Seriously Bioware, **** WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO THE EXILE!

 

Meetra Surik was a farrrrrr better character than Revan and you pretty much ignored everything about Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple, Mandalore, Visas, GOTO and Kreia which is disappointing since after the Events of KotOR2 Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple and (I think) Visas Marr were supposed to be integral to the rebuilding of the Jedi Order.

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I could write up a big post like I usually do, but it's late and i'm tired so i'll just say it bluntly.

 

Bioware hates KOTOR II. They didn't make the game, so they don't have any respect for it. The reason The Exile was basically made Revan's ***** in both the game and the novel was because Revan was actually Bioware's character.

 

As for Revan's ****** writing. I don't even know.

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Seriously Bioware, **** WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO THE EXILE!

 

Meetra Surik was a farrrrrr better character than Revan and you pretty much ignored everything about Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple, Mandalore, Visas, GOTO and Kreia which is disappointing since after the Events of KotOR2 Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple and (I think) Visas Marr were supposed to be integral to the rebuilding of the Jedi Order.

 

She was mostly ruined in the novel, not much in the actual game.

 

I do like the idea that Revan got defeated, sure he's good but new generation could have stronger Sith Lords.

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Revan and the Exile should never have been in SWTOR in the first place. The Revan novel and SWTOR have done neither of them justice (especially the Exile). It was just an attempt to link KOTOR to SWTOR and bring in the KOTOR fans and IMO was a waste and a disgrace.

 

I'm just going to pretend that Revan returned to Bastila and the Exile ran away with Atton, the horrible novel doesn't exist, and they didn't appear in SWTOR. #WillLiveInDenial #Don'tJudgeMe ;)

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Revan and the Exile should never have been in SWTOR in the first place. The Revan novel and SWTOR have done neither of them justice (especially the Exile). It was just an attempt to link KOTOR to SWTOR and bring in the KOTOR fans and IMO was a waste and a disgrace.

 

I'm just going to pretend that Revan returned to Bastila and the Exile ran away with Atton, the horrible novel doesn't exist, and they didn't appear in SWTOR. #WillLiveInDenial #Don'tJudgeMe ;)

 

Well they are still better than the Sith Emperor as a character, the Emperor is more of a plot device and ops boss rather than a character.

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Meetra Surik is a character created specifically for the novel to be Revan's sidekick and then a TOR cameo. In the game, the Exile's character was almost identical to Revan's, namely a blank slate. Probably more so because although their backstory was, in part, perhaps more detailed, it gave less hints about their personality.

 

In regard the OP, yes I am. First of all, I didn't think they should have canonized either of them or made an MMO that skipped past Revan and the Exile's era in the first place but assuming that they did have to make TOR instead of Kotor 3, then they should have left them cosigned to the legends of history. Revan didn't need to appear again. They should have just left him a martyr instead of bringing him back as a broken madman that lives just long enough to undo his entire redemption arc and die a monster and a failure. The Exile died an even more ignoble death, and though she didn't suffer quite as spectacular a failure as Revan did in TOR itself, her character was arbitrarily changed to become apparently Revan's adoring sidekick. I haven't read the novel itself where this happens, but Lord Scourge will flat out say that she was just Revan's follower if the Jedi Knight asks about them. Between the two of them, I can imagine Revan might take the lead if they teamed up, but the Exile was a strong and charismatic leader in their own right. You usually don't get to be a player character without being an epic hero in Star Wars games, and Kotor 2 was not an exception that regard. She should not be just a sidekick follower. Plus, I think Kotor 2 was supposed to be in part about coming out of Revan's shadow. A story involving both of them, they should be near equals. And after all that had happened, I don't know if they necessarily would have liked each other to begin with either.

 

Revan and his crew got very little mention and the Exile and hers got even less. I think they and their friends should have appeared in the Jedi's historical archives, or possibly somebody notes in the Sith Empire about how their sacrifice delayed the invasion. And the way it happened in the story feels the reverse of an epic sacrifice for all characters involved. I would have imagined they'd team up to destabilize the Sith Empire's political structure or crippled their war machine before being defeated by the Emperor in a massive struggle.

Edited by OldVengeance
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The truth is Revan and the Exile were ruined at the end of KOTOR 2. The gameplay of KOTOR 2 was excellent. I love all the additions they made. The advanced classes, the additional force powers, being able to train companions as Jedi. It was all great. But the story writing was terrible. Sion and Nihilus were cartoon character bad guys. The ending was confusing, unsatisfying, and it left little room for writing a good ending for both Revan and the Exile. I was honestly surprised at how well they salvaged something with what they did in the novel, but it still stunk.
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Their time is over and should not make appearance in SWTOR.

 

You're wrong, Revan time was over in the Darth Bane:Path of Destruction novel... as he sais so in it, and he almost was resurected in the clone wars... but I accept that, defeating Revan don't gives me that kind of chill in the ToR (t was kind of empty) when I defeted Darth Malak in the KotoR.

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I gave this a little thought, and actually realised I don't. Sure they didn't represent the Exile too well, but I thought Revan was very well done. And maybe he's robes did look a bit rubbish. But hey, the story was good. I like how Scourge helped Revan and Meetra face the Emperor and then helped the JK do the same in a nostalgic scenario. I thought that was really well done. And I like how the whole Treaty of Coruscant was orchestrated by Revan - wasn't that cool? And I think it was a great idea to have the Republic heroes rescue him. And then the Imperial heroes 'defeat' him. You don't give the flashpoint enough credit, its got the whole Rakata theme going on, you get to meet HK-47 and fight him, and the confrontation with Revan is suitably epic and nostalgic.

 

I think its important that Revan didn't play too big a role in SWTOR - after all its not his story anymore, its about the heroes of the Republic and the Empire. Revan's and the Exile's story ended in the Revan novel.

 

And I really can't see the grounds for peoples argument against the presentation of Meetra. You can't ruin a character that technically never existed. Meetra never spoke aloud in KOTOR 2, you just selected words from a menu, Meetra was you and obviosuly people aren't going to like how Meetra turns out, because that isn't them.

 

OldVengeance makes a good point here though, perhaps it would have been better if they have remained legends who dissapeared into the Unknown Regions to fight the Sith Empire. And SWTOR could have left clues as to what there fate was, but still left it vague. Unfortunately OldVengeance, while this is a good idea, those in favour are severely outweighed by those who wanted to see Revan, HK and the Exile return in SWTOR. Well, be careful what you wish for...

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Seriously Bioware, **** WHAT YOU GUYS DID TO THE EXILE!

 

Meetra Surik was a farrrrrr better character than Revan and you pretty much ignored everything about Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple, Mandalore, Visas, GOTO and Kreia which is disappointing since after the Events of KotOR2 Atton, Mira, Handmaiden, Disciple and (I think) Visas Marr were supposed to be integral to the rebuilding of the Jedi Order.

 

About Mandalore, aka Canderos Ordo, his skull with a blaster hole in it is in display on the Imperial fleet. Cant remember where though. Wonder what happen to him.

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Extremely.

 

I played both KoToR and KoToR II so many times trying to find clues of what happened with Revan or what could possibly happen next with their stories if their was a game 3 to be released. KoToR 2 especially. I played male, female, light side, dark side, gray; killed the Jedi Masters one by one, left them all alive, fought only 3 and saved 1 just to see the different outcomes to find out what they would reveal about Revan. I put up with Mical's annoying whiny sniveling and questioning. I ignored Carth always stopping me to answer questions only to not give me any REAL answers at the end of KoToR II just to get a glimpse what would be possible in the future. I put up with Kreia!!

 

And what happened? Well...

 

 

Revan is captured by the Sith Emperor for 300 years and the Exile is killed after attempting to return to the Sith Empire to stop them from invading the republic. The books did not do them justice. Not Revan and not the exile.

 

 

NOT the ending I wanted for our heroes. But....let me say this. I thoroughly enjoy the game and will play it as long as I can before tiring of it. Might even go back and play KoToR again.

 

Why, do people always have a difficulty of accepting a characters death when you just happened to be able to customize him/her. Characters in stories throughout all of time have died unimportant deaths even though their acheivements were great. Besides, how could Kreia know about the Emperor debacle? I for one LOVED the mysticism surrounding KOTOR II, yes even the Revan parts.

 

P.S. I totally agree with you Jemfisto

Edited by ZayneDraay
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You're wrong, Revan time was over in the Darth Bane:Path of Destruction novel... as he sais so in it, and he almost was resurected in the clone wars... but I accept that, defeating Revan don't gives me that kind of chill in the ToR (t was kind of empty) when I defeted Darth Malak in the KotoR.

 

That's a weak point of the Bane trilogy, I don't get why would Bane get the insight of Rule of Two from Revan and Malak since Malak is totally a failure if you view him as a Bane era Sith.

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The problem is most of the KOTOR2 plot points got thrown right out. Which is a terrible shame because some of them were *********** COOL. I'm just going to vent because I feel I need to get this out.

 

 

Revan becoming the dark lord out of necessity as theorized by Kreia, is a cool idea. Choosing to fall as part of a Xanotos gambit to muster a force powerful enough to stop the emperor OR mobilize the republic out of inaction is a much more compelling story than some guy performing a typical darkside fall and redemption story.

It failed the moment the Malak turned on him but then it can be tragic as opposed to stereotypical

 

 

Secondly the exile got lobotomized.

 

Surik is kind of a crummy name to begin with but they more or less relegated her to being a normal jedi. She wasn't. She basically had no real force connection since malachor and was operating via pseudo connections made through her companions. That's why she was the only one capable of stopping Nihlus. She's kicking *** in KOTOR2 because she's running around with the makings of a new jedi order following her and powering her.

Her teaming up with "looking at the heart of the force" revan should have kicked ***. Not resulted in her getting sidekick duty and backstabbed by scourge.

 

 

Bah, humbug.

Edited by CaptainApop
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Why, do people always have a difficulty of accepting a characters death when you just happened to be able to customize him/her. Characters in stories throughout all of time have died unimportant deaths even though their acheivements were great.

 

It's not so much that she died (before the novel I expected one if not both of them to die), it's HOW she died. After all the horrible characterizations of her in the novel and relegating her to Revan's sidekick, her death apparently didn't warrant more than a four line paragraph and was completely unnecessary. She didn't die like a hero, she died like a ***** from

Scourge stabbing her in the back. (Which is one of the major reasons I will never, ever like Scourge, but that's a totally different discussion.)

 

Edited by Ellyria
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I was quite horrified about the Revan book... And then SWTOR... It literally killed something in me to see Surik come to such a cheap end and then Revan simply getting time-delay-killed *sigh* They should have just made Kotor III by Osidian or SWTOR but just mention them nothing more... Kinda a big great hero Statue on Coruscant and some side notes not getting r**** by poor story writting :mad:
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I gave this a little thought, and actually realised I don't. Sure they didn't represent the Exile too well, but I thought Revan was very well done. And maybe he's robes did look a bit rubbish. But hey, the story was good. I like how Scourge helped Revan and Meetra face the Emperor and then helped the JK do the same in a nostalgic scenario. I thought that was really well done. And I like how the whole Treaty of Coruscant was orchestrated by Revan - wasn't that cool? And I think it was a great idea to have the Republic heroes rescue him. And then the Imperial heroes 'defeat' him. You don't give the flashpoint enough credit, its got the whole Rakata theme going on, you get to meet HK-47 and fight him, and the confrontation with Revan is suitably epic and nostalgic.

 

I think its important that Revan didn't play too big a role in SWTOR - after all its not his story anymore, its about the heroes of the Republic and the Empire. Revan's and the Exile's story ended in the Revan novel.

 

And I really can't see the grounds for peoples argument against the presentation of Meetra. You can't ruin a character that technically never existed. Meetra never spoke aloud in KOTOR 2, you just selected words from a menu, Meetra was you and obviosuly people aren't going to like how Meetra turns out, because that isn't them.

 

OldVengeance makes a good point here though, perhaps it would have been better if they have remained legends who dissapeared into the Unknown Regions to fight the Sith Empire. And SWTOR could have left clues as to what there fate was, but still left it vague. Unfortunately OldVengeance, while this is a good idea, those in favour are severely outweighed by those who wanted to see Revan, HK and the Exile return in SWTOR. Well, be careful what you wish for...

 

Thanks for the spoiler bro

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  • 1 year later...

This entire expansion was a HUGE disappointment. I mean i beat the thing in 1 day. ONE DAY. And the fact that it was so buggy; the lag was so horrendous, it kind of sickens me that i spent money on this. I honestly feel that they somehow fraudulently took my money. there was so much hype i honestly thought i would get at least a month or so of play before the ending. nope. ONE DAY.

 

Then, to screw revan's legacy? I think they've been talking to Lucas and getting lessons from him on how to seriously anger their customers.

 

I think the ONLY thing that was good about this was the 12x experience and leveling all my characters up and 0 cost on abilities as i leveled.

 

And don't get me started on this new talent system because it is HOR A BL.

 

they give the excuse that they don't want to see cookie cutter players, yet the whole game IS cookie cutter and so linear. and buggy. No pride in their work just take my money and say thanks for making our payroll. Nice, just nice.

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It's not so much that she died (before the novel I expected one if not both of them to die), it's HOW she died. After all the horrible characterizations of her in the novel and relegating her to Revan's sidekick, her death apparently didn't warrant more than a four line paragraph and was completely unnecessary. She didn't die like a hero, she died like a ***** from

Scourge stabbing her in the back. (Which is one of the major reasons I will never, ever like Scourge, but that's a totally different discussion.)

 

I disagree .

Meetra was a General in Revan's Fleet . So if you guys want to keep on feeling like she was his side kick ,that was kinda established in KotoR II .

She did not die like a ***** , she saved Revan (or tried to) and put herself at risk in doing so and died for it .

Neither Characters had a awesome ending in that book and nothing glorious about being a Drink box for the emperor for 300 years . By the way Meetra is credited for keeping him alive for that long . Nothing weak about that .

 

I look at it like Revan was alike a older sibling that you love and risk going into debt trying to save .

Revan caused a lot of issues in Meetra's life and she stuck by him out of some kinda love . I always got the feeling like their was a secret romance there .

 

I think no one is ever happy with a character they like to die in any way .

 

I was and probably am a Revan fan , I like Meetra as well . Revan;'s story has been kinda on the level of disownership for me but I keep on liking him like Meetra .

I was not happy with the way Revan died in 3.0 .

 

Would have rathered he died to the combined forces of the Republic and the Empire than his own Good half lol .

 

But we never get what we pictured for the characters we like in how they die .

 

Heck outside of StarWars , I am not happy with accouple endings happening

 

SOA and Boardwalk empire

 

But I have no control over that and I cannot sit here hating on everything because when I feel should trump what the writer came up with .

 

Anyways , I am a fan of Satele Shan and hopefully we can get some more focus on her from Bioware

Edited by mefit
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  • 3 months later...
She was mostly ruined in the novel, not much in the actual game.

 

I do like the idea that Revan got defeated, sure he's good but new generation could have stronger Sith Lords.

 

I don't mind Revan getting defeated, given he couldn't solo Malak without spamming medpacks.

 

And adrenals. Or did anyone else have a different experience?

 

/joke.

 

More importantly, the Sith tend to be stronger when there are fewer of them to stab them in the back before they hit their prime, out of ambition. And more kind of has a cheapness to it. Hence the Rule of Two was so successful. The best selected and trained and conditioned the best, to be the best. Instead of this stupid TOR policy of

grabbing every barely force sensitive kid, enslaving them, and throwing them into a meat blender, hoping one or two will climb out who are any good at anything other than hiding until the rest have butchered themselves and picked up the pieces. (Ffon, you killed them all- why didn't -I- get to kill them all?!)

 

 

Just check out your stereotypical Sith who leaves Korriban. Arrogant, clumsy, bloodthirsty, and fairly unsophisticated. Just comparing my character as a Sith Inquisitor and Warrior to my Knight and my Sage, and I felt like my Jedi were far more mature, developed force sensitives at the end of their training-wheels day. Just never really -felt- like anything other than a sniveling, arrogant apprentice during the Sith story until the end game story... and then, in a sudden rush, I'm a Darth! Whoo! Go me! So I went from Apprentice to Dark Lady/Lord of the Sith in like, a year or two of events? Where's the progression? Where's the countless hours training and studying and -earning it-. Unless Zash and Darth Fatty (Sorry, genuinely forget his name because he's so forgettable), are supremely bad examples of Sith standards... they're both getting spanked by some wet behind the ears apprentice plus two years of combat experience. It's embarrassing.

 

And when my Consular was given the title of Master at level 30, I... was... Pissed! I was like "Really, that's all I gotta do? Save a few Masters with a technique I picked up from a holocron? One holocron? Am I really ready to be a Master? What do I know how to do, really? Throw rocks? One cool technique? How about diplomacy- and by the way- during my -entire period as a full Jedi-, my Master was in a coma slash trying to kill people? A Jedi doesn't ascend to Mastery on their own! And the Guardian side of things is barely better- There's no sense of progression!

 

Finally, how does this relate to TOR and Revan/Exiles legacy?

 

Revan learned under Masters, and in a cinematic spent months at the Jedi Academy, nevermind training under Bastila Shan, and had the benefits of already having learned that in his previous incarnation.

 

The Exile genuinely felt like she was being trained by Kreia, who did more than show her how to hold a lightsaber or throw rocks at bad guys. She taught her philosophy (or tried) and taught her about the mysteries of the Force. She -felt like a Master-. She had a real connection with her apprentice, and, in spite of her ahem, rather un-Jedi philosophies... she still taught enough that I felt like my Exile was growing- so that when I finally did have the power to be the ****** Jedi Master class I was, I really felt like the Exile had earned it, grown, and had a past as a Jedi in training.

 

None of that is present in TOR. My first diplomacy as a Jedi Consular should not start at level 30, as a Master. If I'm a master and I've never done that- i'm missing a huge part of my training. And Shame on you, Satele Shan, for handing out the title of Master so carelessly! That kind of nonsense can doom an Order, I tell you!

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Finally, how does this relate to TOR and Revan/Exiles legacy?

 

Revan learned under Masters, and in a cinematic spent months at the Jedi Academy, nevermind training under Bastila Shan, and had the benefits of already having learned that in his previous incarnation.

 

The Exile genuinely felt like she was being trained by Kreia, who did more than show her how to hold a lightsaber or throw rocks at bad guys. She taught her philosophy (or tried) and taught her about the mysteries of the Force. She -felt like a Master-. She had a real connection with her apprentice, and, in spite of her ahem, rather un-Jedi philosophies... she still taught enough that I felt like my Exile was growing- so that when I finally did have the power to be the ****** Jedi Master class I was, I really felt like the Exile had earned it, grown, and had a past as a Jedi in training.

 

None of that is present in TOR. My first diplomacy as a Jedi Consular should not start at level 30, as a Master. If I'm a master and I've never done that- i'm missing a huge part of my training. And Shame on you, Satele Shan, for handing out the title of Master so carelessly! That kind of nonsense can doom an Order, I tell you!

 

Nothing you wrote actually has anything to do with The Exile's or Revan's legacy.

You're focusing entirely on your own inability to separate story and game mechanics in this game.

For both the Sith and Jedi classes, you're a special little snowflake that's better than all your peers and triumphs against all adversity.

You're so good, that you earn your ranks/titles faster than others. You are the "brain damaged Revan"/Meetra Surik of your generation.

 

Revan and Surik's "Legacy" is referring to their character, skills and achievements. That's what this thread was about, not the disparity between game mechanics and story.

Edited by Fyurii
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