Spoilers forum so expect massive spoilers..

so far I've finished the game with Sith inquisitor, Jedi Knight, Bounty hunter, Trooper and I've leveled beyond the first planet the other classes.

From flashpoints and mostly the bounty hunter story I get it that in this game lore wise the Jedi are ***** and pain in the *** for everyone else.

Why?

In bounty hunter story more so as it seems that after killing their general they are willing to preform acts of murder in order to exact revenge (Sith bit no?) in order to get one individual (the BH) whic at least in my case told those ***** that they should name place and time and I'll jump by to fus ru dah their ***.

weird.

anyone else got this feeling?

Ha, I loved BH story line.

It jsut showed that both side have corruption and douche bags on leader positions.

I hated BH enemies from chap 1 and 3 to the bone for things they did

so far I've finished the game with Sith inquisitor, Jedi Knight, Bounty hunter, Trooper and I've leveled beyond the first planet the other classes.

 

From flashpoints and mostly the bounty hunter story I get it that in this game lore wise the Jedi are ***** and pain in the *** for everyone else.

You have played Jedi Knight and base you opinion about the Jedi on the Bounty Hunter's story?

Sorry, but at least in the Bounty Hunter's and Sith Warrior's story the Jedi are horribly missrepresented to make the player feel better about killing them.

You have met enough Jedi in the Jedi Knight story to know how they really are: Master Orgus, Master Tol Braga, Master Satele, Master Kiwiks.

And of course also Master Jaric Kaedan. Kaedan is more aggressive and unfriedly, but you see that he is a minority and that he is still not as arrogant as the Jedi in the BH story.

In general: Don't trust the Empire's story to represent Jedi correctly and better also don't trust the republic stories to represent Sith correctly. (But I think the Jedi Knight story does a good job in showing how Sith are. Also how different they can be.)

On the BH story you can tell them that killing their friends wasn't jedi like and they will say that they asked them to surrender but they didn't so they didn't have any other choice.

So that justifies cutting and gunning down unarmed people? There were quite a few bodies on that floor, and not all of them had weapons. In fact, Jewl'a's body wasn't even armed, and she'd been shot in the back. REAL Jedi-like, there. Besides, Jedi have been known to lie and bend the truth for their own ends. Just because a character says it doesn't make it true. They'd obviously been ambushed.

The Jedi crossed the line, and made business personal. The Jedi don't believe in revenge, but that's what the whole of Chapter 3 was. Revenge of the Jedi on the BH.

The Jedi crossed the line, and made business personal. The Jedi don't believe in revenge, but that's what the whole of Chapter 3 was. Revenge of the Jedi on the BH.

Oh yes the "whole of Chapter 3" was entirely about Jedi taking revenge. Hunting down a guy trying to keep a prison riot under control, truly horrible vengence from the Jedi. Hunting down a woman researching the history of the Voss, the terror that is the vengence of the Jedi strikes yet again! Hunting down an old man who wishes to prevent the war from spiralling out of control, truly there is nothing that compares to the horror and fury that is the vengence of the Jedi!

Oh yes the "whole of Chapter 3" was entirely about Jedi taking revenge. Hunting down a guy trying to keep a prison riot under control, truly horrible vengence from the Jedi. Hunting down a woman researching the history of the Voss, the terror that is the vengence of the Jedi strikes yet again! Hunting down an old man who wishes to prevent the war from spiralling out of control, truly there is nothing that compares to the horror and fury that is the vengence of the Jedi!

There's a little thing called "context". I suggest you look into it. Those things the BH does during chapter 3 are because Darth Tormen has you on a very short leash, and you can choose to be as humane as possible. I took them all alive to give them a chance to escape later. You basically get pressed into service for Darth Tormen, and don't get a chance to rebel until you meet with the Supreme Chancellor. Just because you played it dark side, doesn't mean everyone else did.

There's a little thing called "context". I suggest you look into it. Those things the BH does during chapter 3 are because Darth Tormen has you on a very short leash, and you can choose to be as humane as possible. I took them all alive to give them a chance to escape later. You basically get pressed into service for Darth Tormen, and don't get a chance to rebel until you meet with the Supreme Chancellor. Just because you played it dark side, doesn't mean everyone else did.

.....LMAO. I took like three maybe four dark side choices accross the class storylines on my 8 characters. None of those were on my BH. And in case you are curious all but one of those DS were related to....romantic relationships. The one that wasn't was a mistake caused by trying every dialogue option in an atempt to save a character.

Anyways, I see you missed the point I was making. Probably because I was going more for humor than making the point and it was probably in response to a minor point to begin with. I'll try to do this again with a lot less snark. Chapter 3 of the BH storyline is not about the revenge of the Jedi. Chapter 3 is about the BH's revenge on the Jedi. Even if you are playing it LS the focus of the storyline is on the BH's doing what needs to be done in order to get his revenge.

And I hardly think you can make a blanket statement that the Jedi were out for revenge. A single Jedi was arguably out for revenge. The others were hunting down what they believed to be a dangerous threat to the Republic. I mean the BH does take down a battleship, that probably makes him more accomplished than most Lords of the Sith and probably a decent chunk of the Darths. The BH might not have done everythign that Jun said that he did, but his rap sheet is still fairly long without those additions.

.....LMAO. I took like three maybe four dark side choices accross the class storylines on my 8 characters. None of those were on my BH. And in case you are curious all but one of those DS were related to....romantic relationships. The one that wasn't was a mistake caused by trying every dialogue option in an atempt to save a character.

 

Anyways, I see you missed the point I was making. Probably because I was going more for humor than making the point and it was probably in response to a minor point to begin with. I'll try to do this again with a lot less snark. Chapter 3 of the BH storyline is not about the revenge of the Jedi. Chapter 3 is about the BH's revenge on the Jedi. Even if you are playing it LS the focus of the storyline is on the BH's doing what needs to be done in order to get his revenge.

 

And I hardly think you can make a blanket statement that the Jedi were out for revenge. A single Jedi was arguably out for revenge. The others were hunting down what they believed to be a dangerous threat to the Republic. I mean the BH does take down a battleship, that probably makes him more accomplished than most Lords of the Sith and probably a decent chunk of the Darths. The BH might not have done everythign that Jun said that he did, but his rap sheet is still fairly long without those additions.

To me, it was about clearing your name as a Bounty Hunter more than revenge. The Jedi (Jun Seros in particular) was still out for revenge for what happened to Kellian Jarro. He sends the SIS, a Jedi strike team, and even the Geno'Haradan after you. And even in his dying breath, he refuses to admit framing you is a mistake. He says his only mistake was getting all those people killed.... which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't framed you in the first place. Gotta love his logic.

That's the thing about war. Soldiers in war do what they're told. Mercs working for the Empire are the same way. They just get paid a bit more. Nowhere did my BH commit "war crimes" in order to achieve my goals. The sound beating I gave Lord Malfus on Alderaan was completely justified.

To me, it was about clearing your name as a Bounty Hunter more than revenge. The Jedi (Jun Seros in particular) was still out for revenge for what happened to Kellian Jarro. He sends the SIS, a Jedi strike team, and even the Geno'Haradan after you. And even in his dying breath, he refuses to admit framing you is a mistake. He says his only mistake was getting all those people killed.... which wouldn't have happened if he hadn't framed you in the first place. Gotta love his logic.

 

That's the thing about war. Soldiers in war do what they're told. Mercs working for the Empire are the same way. They just get paid a bit more. Nowhere did my BH commit "war crimes" in order to achieve my goals. The sound beating I gave Lord Malfus on Alderaan was completely justified.

I'm pretty sure taking hostages is a war crime. Of course, it was Tormen's idea, but saying "I only followed orders" doesn't count, especially for you.

I don't know much about the story, but even in imperial space the bounty hunter has commited crimes. Not war crimes, but crimes. For example many of the things you do on Balmorra.

I'm pretty sure taking hostages is a war crime. Of course, it was Tormen's idea, but saying "I only followed orders" doesn't count, especially for you.

 

I don't know much about the story, but even in imperial space the bounty hunter has commited crimes. Not war crimes, but crimes. For example many of the things you do on Balmorra.

Which is why I skipped over the planetary story arcs sometimes when they did include what would amount to war crimes, and proceeded with class story only. Darth Tormen is pretty much blackmailing the BH, btw. Work for him, or you will never get your "revenge" or get your name cleared. He even chokes out you and Mako or whichever companion you bring along if you tell him you aren't interested or mouth off in any way. I enjoyed killing him even more than Jun Seros, tbh.

Which is why I skipped over the planetary story arcs sometimes when they did include what would amount to war crimes, and proceeded with class story only. Darth Tormen is pretty much blackmailing the BH, btw. Work for him, or you will never get your "revenge" or get your name cleared. He even chokes out you and Mako or whichever companion you bring along if you tell him you aren't interested or mouth off in any way. I enjoyed killing him even more than Jun Seros, tbh.

Yeah, but I mean your story on Balmorra. Not war crimes, but definitly crimes.

And, well you associate with a war criminal to get your revenge... not a wise move, but the game leaves you no choice.

Yeah, but I mean your story on Balmorra. Not war crimes, but definitly crimes.

 

And, well you associate with a war criminal to get your revenge... not a wise move, but the game leaves you no choice.

Taking down enemy combatants isn't a war crime. Capturing enemy commanders isn't a war crime. Pwning a Jedi on the opposing side isn't a war crime. The only times I had to "take hostages", I let them go immediately. Hell, they weren't even hostages. Just civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy asked me to let them leave, so I said "Ok, I have no problem with that."

Oh, and I even rescued some Republic miners on Quesh that had been left to die by the Republic. You get plenty of choices to do the right thing in the game.

Taking down enemy combatants isn't a war crime. Capturing enemy commanders isn't a war crime. Pwning a Jedi on the opposing side isn't a war crime. The only times I had to "take hostages", I let them go immediately. Hell, they weren't even hostages. Just civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy asked me to let them leave, so I said "Ok, I have no problem with that."

 

Oh, and I even rescued some Republic miners on Quesh that had been left to die by the Republic. You get plenty of choices to do the right thing in the game.

The hostage situation is the one with the Selonians on Corellia. I haven't played Bounty Hunter, but in the videos I watched LS and DS bounty hunters took their "mothers and sisters" hostage to capture their leader. I'd consider this a war crime.

On Balmorra, you sabotage the work of an imperial officer for another imperial officer and you kill an imperial admiral. That makes you a criminal by imperial standards. I'll look up Nar Shadda soon, I guess you are also a criminal there.

Edit: Blowing up a research facility and blackmailing a lot of people. Well, yeah, these are standard bounty hinter crimes, but still crimes.

of course bounty hunter is criminal. but who gave those sorry a*s jedi the right to be the fricking police?

As I've stated my BH at least gave them the chance for fair 1 VS 1 fight but those di*ks kept hiding and running away etc.

On my JK story jedi were:

1. Psycho warmongers.

2. masochists.

3. went dark side and became insane.. even my dark 5 Darth council member is not that insane....

The hostage situation is the one with the Selonians on Corellia. I haven't played Bounty Hunter, but in the videos I watched LS and DS bounty hunters took their "mothers and sisters" hostage to capture their leader. I'd consider this a war crime.

 

On Balmorra, you sabotage the work of an imperial officer for another imperial officer and you kill an imperial admiral. That makes you a criminal by imperial standards. I'll look up Nar Shadda soon, I guess you are also a criminal there.

 

Edit: Blowing up a research facility and blackmailing a lot of people. Well, yeah, these are standard bounty hinter crimes, but still crimes.

Actually, no. It's only a crime by Imperial standards if you get caught. The Bounty on the Admiral is legit, though. I really suggest playing though it your way before you make snap judgments based on youtube videos, though. You will find quite a few extenuating circumstances that the videos don't show.

of course bounty hunter is criminal. but who gave those sorry a*s jedi the right to be the fricking police?

 

As I've stated my BH at least gave them the chance for fair 1 VS 1 fight but those di*ks kept hiding and running away etc.

If you broke Republic law (I'm not sure about that), the Jedi have every right come for you. The Republic gave them (among other rights) the right to act as a police force.

And the police don't have to fight one on one. They could have come with 6 Jedi to arrest you. If you resist, they could have used force. But the way they do it in the BH story violates the law itself (or at least the rules), that's why the supreme chancallor changes his mind.

(But he also offers you immunity for your real crimes, so you must have broken Republic law at one point.)

On my JK story jedi were:

1. Psycho warmongers.

2. masochists.

3. went dark side and became insane.. even my dark 5 Darth council member is not that insane....

1. What?

2. What?

3. What?

1. Who is a psycho warmonger? Satele is a leader in a war, does that make her a warmonger? Master Orgus want's to "get things done", but he didn't start any war. He always answered to violent actions of others. The only Jedi you could see as warmonger is Master Jaric Kaedan.

2. Who is a masochists and why?

3. Sorry, being mind controlled by the obviously insane Emperor would make everyone insane*. So the only one who counts is Bengal Morr.

*Tol Braga broke free and was still insane afterwards. Still, I really doubt that this shows a disposition for the dark side. He explains why he went insane: Because the Emperor "showed" him, that everything he did as a Jedi was pointless. (Servant 2 also goes insane after "being exposed to the Emperor", so I think the reason for this is the Emperor.)

So, please write in which category all the important Jedi from the storyline fit and why. Because I can't see most of them fitting in one of these categories.

Actually, no. It's only a crime by Imperial standards if you get caught. The Bounty on the Admiral is legit, though. I really suggest playing though it your way before you make snap judgments based on youtube videos, though. You will find quite a few extenuating circumstances that the videos don't show.

So, taking the Selonians hostage is still a war crime. (The Empire doesn't care for war crimes, of course.)

And "it's only a crime if you get caught" can be said for every state, even in the real world. You don't really want to tell me that if the Empire discovered you did these things a few month afterwards they wouldn't try to get you.

As far as I have seen the Empire, it's more like: It's only a crime if you don't have someone powerful who protects you.

I know it's always better to play through the story, but Bounty Hunter is on the bottom of my list. I don't like underworld stuff, and smuggler sounds more like fun. Since I'm a very slow leveller, I'll play Bounty Hunter probably in around a year. So what are the extenuating circumstances?

And the Supreme Chancallow also mentions "real crimes", so you must have broken Republic law at some point. If not, it's bad writing.

So, taking the Selonians hostage is still a war crime. (The Empire doesn't care for war crimes, of course.)

 

And "it's only a crime if you get caught" can be said for every state, even in the real world. You don't really want to tell me that if the Empire discovered you did these things a few month afterwards they wouldn't try to get you.

 

As far as I have seen the Empire, it's more like: It's only a crime if you don't have someone powerful who protects you.

 

I know it's always better to play through the story, but Bounty Hunter is on the bottom of my list. I don't like underworld stuff, and smuggler sounds more like fun. Since I'm a very slow leveller, I'll play Bounty Hunter probably in around a year. So what are the extenuating circumstances?

 

And the Supreme Chancallow also mentions "real crimes", so you must have broken Republic law at some point. If not, it's bad writing.

The Selonian situation is part of the extenuating circumstances. Tormen wants them. If I DON'T do it, he kills me. If you haven't seen Darth Tormen in action, you REALLY need to play through the entire BH story. That guy is nothin' nice. In fact, I believe he's the worst main villain in the entire game. The guy is out there even by Sith standards. Seriously, play through the BH story to get the perspective you need, and please stop jumping to conclusions before you know what all is going on.

Regardless of what anyone's opinion is on Jedi, I say that they're SO stupid, the Jedi should be dead!!

Look at the Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars. The Jedi Council did nothing about it, despite how many times the Senate petitioned the Jedi's help. Had Revan and Malak not entered the conflict like real Jedi would, the Republic and Jedi alike would've been burning like the other worlds the Mandalorians burned: Duro, Eres III, Serroco, etc. Revan and Malak were the true Jedi. Real Jedi would go into the conflict and deal with it peacefully, not sit there in their Temple and call not dealing with the conflict "peaceful." That is SO arrogant and petty, no wonder the Jedi are so weak like the Sith. They just sit and deliberate while worlds die.

The Jedi are slaves to their own Code, thus they apply it as if they were rules ((A Code = guidlines than actual rules)). "There is no emotion, there is peace." Yeah, right! More like "there is no settling, there is only apathy." Even Ashara Zavros would think the same thing! And the Jedi just hide their emotions, that just makes look like total ****** bags to me. Why not use positive emotions to assist them in combat, similar to how the Sith use rage to fuel their strength?

And if the Jedi don't wanna become extinct then they should take every opportunity they have to win! Instead, they just take their brightest disciples and use them as slaves and puppets and hold them back! No wonder Anakin Skywalker and Ashara Zavros during their own respective eras were doubtful of the Jedi, because they never looked up to their potential! Anakin would've ended the Clone Wars; Ashara would've been a great weapon of the light side to end the conflict with the Sith. But NO!! Instead the Jedi just limit themselves to the powers they have and restrict their own Padawans and Knights from progressing. That is just SOO arrogant and sick; What- Is it like the Masters are the most powerful Jedi! No!

Regardless of what anyone's opinion is on Jedi, I say that they're SO stupid, the Jedi should be dead!!

 

Look at the Jedi during the Mandalorian Wars. The Jedi Council did nothing about it, despite how many times the Senate petitioned the Jedi's help. Had Revan and Malak not entered the conflict like real Jedi would, the Republic and Jedi alike would've been burning like the other worlds the Mandalorians burned: Duro, Eres III, Serroco, etc. Revan and Malak were the true Jedi. Real Jedi would go into the conflict and deal with it peacefully, not sit there in their Temple and call not dealing with the conflict "peaceful." That is SO arrogant and petty, no wonder the Jedi are so weak like the Sith. They just sit and deliberate while worlds die.

 

The Jedi are slaves to their own Code, thus they apply it as if they were rules ((A Code = guidlines than actual rules)). "There is no emotion, there is peace." Yeah, right! More like "there is no settling, there is only apathy." Even Ashara Zavros would think the same thing! And the Jedi just hide their emotions, that just makes look like total ****** bags to me. Why not use positive emotions to assist them in combat, similar to how the Sith use rage to fuel their strength?

 

And if the Jedi don't wanna become extinct then they should take every opportunity they have to win! Instead, they just take their brightest disciples and use them as slaves and puppets and hold them back! No wonder Anakin Skywalker and Ashara Zavros during their own respective eras were doubtful of the Jedi, because they never looked up to their potential! Anakin would've ended the Clone Wars; Ashara would've been a great weapon of the light side to end the conflict with the Sith. But NO!! Instead the Jedi just limit themselves to the powers they have and restrict their own Padawans and Knights from progressing. That is just SOO arrogant and sick; What- Is it like the Masters are the most powerful Jedi! No!

^This. I've been saying this for years! The Jedi NEVER learn from their mistakes! They think they're infallible, in spite of being hunted to the brink of extinction several times. In spite of the fact that the number of Jedi who fell to the Dark Side BEFORE the Original Jedi Code got revised is nothing compared to how many have fallen SINCE "There is NO" was made the SOP. Until Luke's Jedi Order, there had NEVER been a complete deconstruction of the old ways and a construction of a new SOP. Luke put together a Jedi Order that actually uses positive emotions instead of trying to suppress them. To be fair, even Luke's NJO has its faults. But hey, any Jedi Order that says "It's ok to have a honey" is ok by me.

The hostage situation is the one with the Selonians on Corellia. I haven't played Bounty Hunter, but in the videos I watched LS and DS bounty hunters took their "mothers and sisters" hostage to capture their leader. I'd consider this a war crime.

 

On Balmorra, you sabotage the work of an imperial officer for another imperial officer and you kill an imperial admiral. That makes you a criminal by imperial standards. I'll look up Nar Shadda soon, I guess you are also a criminal there.

 

Edit: Blowing up a research facility and blackmailing a lot of people. Well, yeah, these are standard bounty hinter crimes, but still crimes.

LOL. No its not. Mercs can only commit the same war crimes as regular soldiers and those are not warcrimes. taking political prisoners is not a warcrime. For the record SAS commando's often attacked nazi politicians during WW2. are they criminals? Acts of sabotage and subterfuge are not warcrimes. So no the BH is not a war criminal or even a criminal.

That Jun declared a personal vendetta against the BH because hit jedi pride got hurt doesn't make a criminal but it does make him incredibly stupid

Taking down enemy combatants isn't a war crime. Capturing enemy commanders isn't a war crime. Pwning a Jedi on the opposing side isn't a war crime. The only times I had to "take hostages", I let them go immediately. Hell, they weren't even hostages. Just civilians in the wrong place at the wrong time. The guy asked me to let them leave, so I said "Ok, I have no problem with that."

 

Oh, and I even rescued some Republic miners on Quesh that had been left to die by the Republic. You get plenty of choices to do the right thing in the game.

Technically speaking, under current international laws, being a mercenary is a War Crime in and of itself. As a non-uniformed, foreign combatant that abuses the protection afforded to civilians to attack military targets, greatly endangering said noncombatants.

For the record, mercenaries (AKA: "defense contractors") are scum, and generally spat upon in real life by any soldier of any nationality worth his or her salt. They're only glamorous in fiction.