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Pyro VS Arsenal in raids ???


Aliman

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I've been mostly raiding as Arsenal spec but has anyone out there tryed to do Pyro in raids and what is result of that ??

 

Is it on pair or meaby better then Arsenal ??

 

Pyro can definitely pull some numbers if played right- but if you play Arsenal with equal skill, Arsenal still trumps Pyro.

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Pyro can definitely pull some numbers if played right- but if you play Arsenal with equal skill, Arsenal still trumps Pyro.

 

^^

This!

 

I am curious as to how 1.3 debuff stacking will effect Arsenal/Gunnery as it seems like a nerf to damage output on paper. Since Assault derives about 30% of its damage from burns, which are not mitigated or improved by armor debuffs I am thinking it might pull even on some fights.

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I've been mostly raiding as Arsenal spec but has anyone out there tryed to do Pyro in raids and what is result of that ??

 

Is it on pair or meaby better then Arsenal ??

 

I get higher personal DPS and overall damage from Pyro; however, my Ops group usually benefits from my playing arsenal. My overall damage drops, but most everyone else sees a boost, which results in a net gain.

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Arsenal helps a great deal due to heat signatures, however in 1.3 with the changes of stacking debuffs, one arsenal will be more than sufficent enough. The change will be the person with the highest number of debuff stack has the effect applied (sunder armor, heat signature, etc.)
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Arsenal helps a great deal due to heat signatures, however in 1.3 with the changes of stacking debuffs, one arsenal will be more than sufficent enough. The change will be the person with the highest number of debuff stack has the effect applied (sunder armor, heat signature, etc.)

 

This.

 

Several major like buffs and debuffs no longer stack with one another. This system effects several debuffs like armor reduction, healing reduction, and accuracy reduction (through abilities like Tracer Missile, Flourish Shot, and Diversion), and buffs like armor increase, healing received increase, and damage dealt increase (through skills like Force Shelter, Kolto Residue, and Bloodthirst). This system specifically causes only the highest of any given non-stacking buff or debuff to apply. Most players will not notice the effects of this change, but groups that continue to attempt to stack non-stacking buffs and debuffs will notice the limit to how the effect calculations are applied.

 

Arsenal is indirectly getting more of a nerf than Pyro from that change but since since AP is being increased for Unload and Railshot it may be less significant than thought.

 

But 16 man raid teams with many mercs should find their kinetic and energy attacks don't do much more than they can do solo on a training dummy in 1.3

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Don't forget, Arsenal also has 35% armor penetration on High Velocity Gas Cylinder which mitigates the issue of having bosses with higher armor and balances Pyro's ~30% burn damage. Additionally the new Advanced Targeting skill is likely to stack additively to HVGC for 65% armor penetration (unconfirmed, but it's consistent with SWTOR's formulas in other areas).

Combined, Arsenal may end up bypassing more armor than Pyro.

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Don't forget, Arsenal also has 35% armor penetration on High Velocity Gas Cylinder which mitigates the issue of having bosses with higher armor and balances Pyro's ~30% burn damage. Additionally the new Advanced Targeting skill is likely to stack additively to HVGC for 65% armor penetration (unconfirmed, but it's consistent with SWTOR's formulas in other areas).

Combined, Arsenal may end up bypassing more armor than Pyro.

 

1.3 isn't 65% its 85% unless for some reason you don't use tracer.

 

But only on railshot and unload.

 

Tracer will still be 55% so unload will be doing slightly more of the total damage vs pre-1.3

Edited by Gyronamics
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1.3 isn't 65% its 85% unless for some reason you don't use tracer.

 

HVGC and 1.3's Advanced Targeting are both Armor Penetration so they should add together, but Armor Debuffs aren't the same thing so they don't add together they multiply.

So if you're counting a Armor Debuff too, it's:

Unload and Rail Shot: Affected by 28% of armor

Heat Seeker, Rapid Shots and Tracer Missile: Affected by 48% of armor

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HVGC and 1.3's Advanced Targeting are both Armor Penetration so they should add together, but Armor Debuffs aren't the same thing so they don't add together they multiply.

So if you're counting a Armor Debuff too, it's:

Unload and Rail Shot: Affected by 28% of armor

Heat Seeker, Rapid Shots and Tracer Missile: Affected by 48% of armor

 

In that case I'm being misinformed by someone who writes in yellow.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4230212&postcount=17

 

Who says that HVGC + Tracer = 55% armour penetration and carries on to do the maths of how that affects a hit.

 

Apparently he's a class designer for the game.

Edited by Gyronamics
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In that case I'm being misinformed by someone who writes in yellow.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4230212&postcount=17

 

Who says that HVGC + Tracer = 55% armour penetration and carries on to do the maths of how that affects a hit.

 

Apparently he's a class designer for the game.

 

The wording just confuses people, honestly they shouldn't work additively like that. An ability that reduces a mob's armor should be taken into account before any ArP takes effect. Then, when you have the reduced number, the ArP kicks in. So if a mob had 1k armor, and he had 5 stacks of heat sigs on it, then he should be at 800 armor, at that point, the 35% armor pen from HVGC should be taken into account, reducing his armor to 520. With the way it works right now, he would have 450 armor overall.

 

Obviously, it works in our favor if it's additive, but when being looked at, an armor debuff is considered by most people to be separate from actual armor pen.

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In that case I'm being misinformed by someone who writes in yellow.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=4230212&postcount=17

 

Who says that HVGC + Tracer = 55% armour penetration and carries on to do the maths of how that affects a hit.

 

Apparently he's a class designer for the game.

 

He is THE class designer, so it's unfortunate that he's wrong. I've personally tested the armor penetration of HVGC and it's not additive. I guess I'll have to retest in case it's been changed in the two months since I did that, and bug report it.

If this is a bug and IF it's fixed in 1.3, Arsenal will have even better armor penetration than before. 85% penetration on Unload and Rail Shot? I'll be happy with that.

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