When this game first launched... many aspects of the game were, well... cooler.

For instance, Force lift for sages lifted... and then SLAMMED the enemy on the ground.

Force push used to push in ALL directions... like troopers.

But most of all. Light / Dark had consequences, and benefits.

Like only certain alignments could use certain saber colors.

Or, certain weapons could only be used by light or dark.

Now... it means nothing. Its terrible. its boring. Its fake choices. Make light/Dark Great Again!

Like only certain alignments could use certain saber colors.

 

I don't remember any colour crystals being locked behind an alignment :/ Maybe I was lucky enough to be the right one, and never noticed...lol

But I do miss the influence going up and down on companions, depending on the choices you made.

I don't remember any colour crystals being locked behind an alignment :/ Maybe I was lucky enough to be the right one, and never noticed...lol

 

But I do miss the influence going up and down on companions, depending on the choices you made.

Specific Lightsabers and Relics that dropped had alignment requirements, but I don't recall any such restriction on color crystals (which were really only available from crafting back then).

Personally I am not a big fan of locking combat abilities behind alignment levels, at least not in an MMORPG with Endgame PvE and PvP.

It would be totally fine however if they were purely cosmetic, like the stuff from the Light/Dark vendors or the titles you get for reaching specific levels. I think most players would be pleased if BioWare simply kept adding more cosmetic equipment and abilities for the alignment system to the game. The Light/Dark vendors have not had an update since they were introduced back in 2016, so almost 4 years ago. As grindy and boring as the renown mechanic has become compared to the command mechanic, but adding more stuff to those vendors would make renown a little bit more interesting to earn dark and light tokens.

Like only certain alignments could use certain saber colors.

Was never a thing

Or, certain weapons could only be used by light or dark.

Is still a thing, for all equipment types, see L/D vendors

... I'm still waiting on Grey to have mattered (more than jjust one classes never actually usable title, and anothers ability to choose a light or dark outcome). Ok, no true; I gave up waiting long ago.

Was never a thing

Uh yes it was, you've all got short memories or never played when you claim to have played.

Green / Blue had to be Light I and above

Red had to be Dark I and below

Yellow was neutral and allowed by all.

OP makes a good point, now it's all irrelevant, any decisions you make in conversations are completely diluted by your light/dark toggle and gain in activities and quests etc

Uh yes it was, you've all got short memories or never played when you claim to have played.

I went back and looked.... turns out it was a thing at launch... for all of about 3 mos (actually less I think because I also remember the restriction not applying at max light/dark)

I stand corrected.

still wouldn't want it back, it was dumb then and it'd be dumber now.

When this game first launched... many aspects of the game were, well... cooler.

 

For instance, Force lift for sages lifted... and then SLAMMED the enemy on the ground.

 

Force push used to push in ALL directions... like troopers.

I don't recall the Guardian/Juggernaut Force Push ability being anything other than single-target, but perhaps I'm wrong. I don't think it should be a conal though, there are already many AoE knockbacks already in the game between Consulars/Commandos/Gunslingers. However, you were right that Consular/Sorcerer Force Wave/Overload used to be 360 degrees. This was changed so long ago, maybe 2.x era, but it wasn't as soon after launch as the light/dark color crystal thing. I'm sure there were balance considerations, but I miss it, especially in Alderaan Civil War or Novare Coast.

I don't recall the slamming at the end of the animation of Force Lift, I wouldn't mind seeing that. Its already present in the code for some boss attacks, so it should be less of an issue to add to the ability than if they had to create the animation mo-cap from scratch (especially in this time of social distancing.) Although to be fair, Force Lift/Whirlwind is not like some hard stuns and mezzes where you can talent into a debuff once the mez is broken, which connects the animation to the in-game effect and in that case enhances immersion.

Exar Kun had a blue lightsaber, so ... there's that, already breaking lore. Anyway, character customization is more important to the devs and the playerbase than consistency with lore, I guess. Its certainly easier to monetize and connect to credit sinks/provide a market for crafters. At any rate, I'd rather the story elements deeply reflect my L/D choices, rather than a color crystal enforcement, if I can only have one or the other. I appreciate what they did to make choices matter more in KOTFE/KOTET and in the first part of Onslaught. There's more coming to this Onslaught story which I think will make our choices even more relevant in the coming months.

I went back and looked.... turns out it was a thing at launch... for all of about 3 mos (actually less I think because I also remember the restriction not applying at max light/dark)

 

I stand corrected.

 

still wouldn't want it back, it was dumb then and it'd be dumber now.

It was awesome.

Uh yes it was, you've all got short memories or never played when you claim to have played.

 

Green / Blue had to be Light I and above

Red had to be Dark I and below

Yellow was neutral and allowed by all.

 

As I said, i don't remember, but chances are i choose red as my first chars were inqs, darkside...lol. Glad they didn't keep that option, as my chars have grown as i've played more, and become more complex...lol

Was never a thing

 

 

Is still a thing, for all equipment types, see L/D vendors

 

 

... I'm still waiting on Grey to have mattered (more than jjust one classes never actually usable title, and anothers ability to choose a light or dark outcome). Ok, no true; I gave up waiting long ago.

the Book: Art of Making SWTOR makes me incredibly sad. They had planned on making at least one other class in game - Gray Jedi for each faction. However EA wouldn't give them more time to implement it so they got cut. I'm holding out hope they finish it and release it still (unlikely to happen but i can dream too lol).

On a side note I have still picked up items either from quests, crew skill missions, FPS or random pickups that still have light or dark side needed to use. Definitely don't see it as much as I used to

It was awesome.

awesomely stupid.... and non-cannon.

it might be more common for sith or jedi to build their lightsabers a particular way, but it hasn't stopped them from USING someone else's lightsaber. And sincethat is true, then construction really is just a matter of personal preference.

Besides the OP's lame MAGA ripoff, that can be applied to just about anything, I really liked the lift slam and all around force push, and it beats what has replaced it - bring those back. The color crystals requirements were just nonsense and I'd never want that to come back (it's just a color crystal, not a magic wand. Some lords or apprentices use the sabers of fallen enemies and General Grievous used blue and green, Ep3 Darth Vader used blue - so no way I want any (ridiculous) color crystal restriction).

Make Light & Dark relevant again by bringing back the Dark vs Light event, in some new form.

I don't like restricting items, in a game like this I think the player should be free to make the design they like.

As for choice I'm all for that, but most of all I'd love it if neutral alignment was also a viable option and something that would be brought up now and then.

Besides the OP's lame MAGA ripoff, that can be applied to just about anything, I really liked the lift slam and all around force push, and it beats what has replaced it - bring those back. The color crystals requirements were just nonsense and I'd never want that to come back (it's just a color crystal, not a magic wand. Some lords or apprentices use the sabers of fallen enemies and General Grievous used blue and green, Ep3 Darth Vader used blue - so no way I want any (ridiculous) color crystal restriction).

 

Make Light & Dark relevant again by bringing back the Dark vs Light event, in some new form.

Oh, OP has said much worse than that. Dude's got quite a history!

To the point of the post:

I don't really think it matters. I think systematizing and gamifying morality systems misses the point entirely. I don't want to be light or dark to be optimal, and I don't want to be light or dark for aesthetic purposes.

The further you remove morality from game systems, the better.

Oh, OP has said much worse than that. Dude's got quite a history!

 

To the point of the post:

 

I don't really think it matters. I think systematizing and gamifying morality systems misses the point entirely. I don't want to be light or dark to be optimal, and I don't want to be light or dark for aesthetic purposes.

 

The further you remove morality from game systems, the better.

That's an interesting theory. So you object to the notion of L/D tokens for cosmetic items, and the notion of more renown points if your alignment matches the winning side, because that incentivizes people to make otherwise "moral" choices simply because it fits the mechanics of gameplay, rather than how one wants to play their character. I can see that.

Do you also object to the notion of the competition? And if so, would you therefore object to a replay of the DvL event which did have a final outcome to strive for? If you object, how do you respond to the valid criticism that being dark or light lacks impact on the galaxy as a whole without some system to measure and incentivize competition/struggle?

If you don't object to the competition part, the struggle galaxy wide between light and dark, do you think the spawning of specific bosses based on a victory state is consistent with that theme? I would, in the sense that powerful Jedi or Sith might appear when their side is strong in the Force. But would you remove all incentives to defeat them?

Practically speaking though, there aren't enough "moral choices," like you would see in KOTFE/KOTET or class stories, in a typical day's worth of endgame play. So if you supported the competitive struggle, how would you measure it and incentivize participation?

That's an interesting theory. So you object to the notion of L/D tokens for cosmetic items, and the notion of more renown points if your alignment matches the winning side, because that incentivizes people to make otherwise "moral" choices simply because it fits the mechanics of gameplay, rather than how one wants to play their character. I can see that.

 

Do you also object to the notion of the competition? And if so, would you therefore object to a replay of the DvL event which did have a final outcome to strive for? If you object, how do you respond to the valid criticism that being dark or light lacks impact on the galaxy as a whole without some system to measure and incentivize competition/struggle?

 

If you don't object to the competition part, the struggle galaxy wide between light and dark, do you think the spawning of specific bosses based on a victory state is consistent with that theme? I would, in the sense that powerful Jedi or Sith might appear when their side is strong in the Force. But would you remove all incentives to defeat them?

 

Practically speaking though, there aren't enough "moral choices," like you would see in KOTFE/KOTET or class stories, in a typical day's worth of endgame play. So if you supported the competitive struggle, how would you measure it and incentivize participation?

The super short answer is that I don't care about the DvL event. I've been around since well before it was introduced -- and I don't really have the slightest clue what it involves, aside from the annoying notification I can't seem to turn off and the huge dark or light option in the bottom of my screen. I pretty much avoid it whenever/however I can.

But also, yeah, I would say there's something wrong in the notion that a game might be encouraging players to, say, choose the most cruel and malicious options just so that the side they like (the Dark Side) can get more bosses, or however the system works.

I agree that dark/light-locked sets and the like were very cool. I'd honestly like to see basic blue light-locked and red dark-locked at the very least, but that would surely cause an outcry due to cosmetic freedom or somesuch.

Personally I am not a big fan of locking combat abilities behind alignment levels, at least not in an MMORPG with Endgame PvE and PvP.

 

It would be totally fine however if they were purely cosmetic

That would actually be a really neat "feature" - make the abilities look more "light" or "dark" based on alignment.

Ideally, at "neutral" and ligher/darker, Jedi/Sith use their normal abilities as we know them now, and every level in the other direction makes the ability resemble the other faction's equivalent more and more until Telekinesis Sages are throwing lightning balls rather than energy balls and Juggernauts are throwing a burst of light energy rather than Force Screams - actual new animations for the non-standard alignment for their faction.

Realistically, given how much effort they put into the game these days, just changing the abilities' animations to the other faction's at max Dark (Jedi) or Light (Sith), with the option to turn it off alongside Dark Side Corruption, the button that's already there, would still be a very cool addition.