For those ESO players, here's a handy guide to translating all the 6.0 SWTOR terminology. Most of these are just copy/paste in function, so there's little to no difference.

SWTOR 6.0 = ESO

Set Bonus = Set Bonus (Well, that's easy!)

Tactical Item = Monster Set (Ability changer/added effects that change playstyle)

Amplifier= Trait (Little rng bonuses on shells, which you can change just like in ESO)

Keep in mind that unlike ESO, which continually strives to balance abilities, armor sets, and playstyles, SWTOR only does balances about once a year. Rest assured, if you find a mind boggling OP combination, you'll be safe knowing it won't be nerfed for a long, long time. If you do have any feedback, please file it in the recycling bin on your desktop, and the combat team will review it at the appropriate time, assuming none are on family leave.

Thanks for reading my 6.0 guide for ESO players, and may this farce be with you.

Thanks for pointing that out

Maybe 6.0 will have ESO-like gearing but unlike ESO, SWTOR actually isn´t boring.

I played ESO for 8 months (so I think I got to know most of it) but it´s really a letdown from previous games like Morrowind, story wise. (Also ESO has enough problems - class balance is one of them.)

The graphics are great and yes they patch often, but thats pretty much it.

So I´m ok if SWTOR copies the gearing, but please don´t adapt anything else.

(Also many players said the gearing system is more like Diablo 3 /shrug)

Thanks for pointing that out

Maybe 6.0 will have ESO-like gearing but unlike ESO, SWTOR actually isn´t boring.

I played ESO for 8 months (so I think I got to know most of it) but it´s really a letdown from previous games like Morrowind, story wise. (Also ESO has enough problems - class balance is one of them.)

 

The graphics are great and yes they patch often, but thats pretty much it.

So I´m ok if SWTOR copies the gearing, but please don´t adapt anything else.

(Also many players said the gearing system is more like Diablo 3 /shrug)

I think boring or fun is mostly subjective, but right now ESO is either 2nd or 3rd in terms of playerbase for American mmos, and I doubt if SWTOR is even 15th. I just know I wouldn't play a game for 8 months if I thought it was boring. I did find Diablo 3 boring, and only played it for a day, so I can't really say if it's like Diablo 3 or not.

And I agree, ESO has balance issues, but that's due to a combination of class abilities and set bonus interactions, and because of how many of those variables are involved, it requires constant readjustments.

The whole point is that Bioware can't match that level of class balance adjustments, and that's going to destroy the games playability.

People will still sub for the story, and because it's from the Star Wars ip, but 6.0 is going to be a disaster.

Mimicking success is fine. Art isn't made in a vacuum, mmos should infulence each other in aspects that they do well. But when Bioware does it, they should take a good look at their staff and resources and be a bit more self aware of what they're capable of handling.

I think boring or fun is mostly subjective, but right now ESO is either 2nd or 3rd in terms of playerbase for American mmos, and I doubt if SWTOR is even 15th. I just know I wouldn't play a game for 8 months if I thought it was boring. I did find Diablo 3 boring, and only played it for a day, so I can't really say if it's like Diablo 3 or not.

Now this turns into an ESO thread

It took me very long to get a healer and a dd (for that arena) to max level + gear + shards + pvp to level war horn.

I played the main story (could have interesting but presented badly) and many other stories. The only thing that seemed interesting was Morrowing and Clockwork City main story. But they were presented badly too.

Now the combat + dungeons + raids: The mechanics are good but the gameplay is boring and repetitive. Most dd classes share the same skills (melee or range, stamina or magicka etc). They don´t feel so unique like swtor classes. And theres only one real healer and that gets boring too.

But the main problem is: ESO has no soul. There are no interesting characters, quests or anything. I can create a beautiful character but he has no backstory, no companions and I only see him in the character selection screen.

tldr: ESO isn´t bad but its not great either.

(PS I googled how the gearing system of Diablo 3 works - the rolling for a better item thing seems to come from there

Now this turns into an ESO thread

It took me very long to get a healer and a dd (for that arena) to max level + gear + shards + pvp to level war horn.

I played the main story (could have interesting but presented badly) and many other stories. The only thing that seemed interesting was Morrowing and Clockwork City main story. But they were presented badly too.

 

Now the combat + dungeons + raids: The mechanics are good but the gameplay is boring and repetitive. Most dd classes share the same skills (melee or range, stamina or magicka etc). They don´t feel so unique like swtor classes. And theres only one real healer and that gets boring too.

 

But the main problem is: ESO has no soul. There are no interesting characters, quests or anything. I can create a beautiful character but he has no backstory, no companions and I only see him in the character selection screen.

 

tldr: ESO isn´t bad but its not great either.

 

(PS I googled how the gearing system of Diablo 3 works - the rolling for a better item thing seems to come from there

In 6.0, you won't be rolling for better gear though, you'll be rolling for a new trait (cough) I mean amplifier. So it's like ESO, but instead of learning the traits on your crafter to modify items, it's a rng credit sink.

I've healed vet dungeons on every class in ESO, except Necro. (Which also has a healing tree) I'm not sure what you mean by there's only one healer. Maybe you think there's only one "best" healer, and only use that one. That's more of a WoW mentality, and I never really wanted to subscribe to that way of thinking.

Companions in SWTOR are a crutch. They're a good story telling element sometimes, but mechanically they were used to cover balance issues for solo PVE. Now companions are so powerful, your character is the sidekick. I'd rather be Batman than Robin, "Thank you VERY much" -Brie Larson (lol)

I agree that vanilla SWTOR has a soul. One look at Dantoinne though, and it's clear that modern SWTOR, and the storytelling that goes with it, is devoid of it. I'd argue that the community of ESO is the soul: People are always messaging me with links to their character's backstories. That doesn't happen in SWTOR anymore, they way it used to in vanilla and maybe 2.0. The imagination has been wringed out of SWTOR, mostly because of all the corners people feel their characters have been painted into, like being the "commander".

Anyway, back to the actual reason for the thread: SWTOR and ESO are apples and oranges, but the apple in this case wants to be the orange. It just doesn't have the citrus or the thick skin to mimick it correctly. It's just gonna be a bad tasting apple.

And I agree, ESO has balance issues, but that's due to a combination of class abilities and set bonus interactions, and because of how many of those variables are involved, it requires constant readjustments.

So, I don't play ESO, but having been with SWTOR from beta until now, I'm old enough to remember when Skill Trees were dropped in favor of disciplines and utilities because hybrids were too hard to balance. Being a die-hard SWG fan, also from beta to sunset, I lamented the pruning of 32 player classes into 9 professions and missed the diversity in builds you could have there, while at the same time admitting that pvp balance was significantly improved post-NGE. Horizontal gear progression adds complexity and depth, two things that are valuable in my opinion, i.e. to me, but I do fear its scope may introduce balance issues again.

• multiple set boni
  
• no utility changes, but a new class ability
  
• tactical items
  
• relics, which they've speculated on changing (see the Reddit AMA summary thread)
  
• amplifiers
  

Don't assume players won't be clever enough to find some interesting synergy out of these. "Interesting synergy" is good. "Overpowered," well, that's somewhat subjective, but usually not a healthy thing for the game. I'm glad it will be on open test with no NDA for months before launch. Honestly, I'd rather they start with a broad scope and narrow it when the interesting synergies devolve into OPness, then have a bland system where only one or two builds are actually viable.

So, I don't play ESO, but having been with SWTOR from beta until now, I'm old enough to remember when Skill Trees were dropped in favor of disciplines and utilities because hybrids were too hard to balance. Being a die-hard SWG fan, also from beta to sunset, I lamented the pruning of 32 player classes into 9 professions and missed the diversity in builds you could have there, while at the same time admitting that pvp balance was significantly improved post-NGE. Horizontal gear progression adds complexity and depth, two things that are valuable in my opinion, i.e. to me, but I do fear its scope may introduce balance issues again.

• multiple set boni
  
• no utility changes, but a new class ability
  
• tactical items
  
• relics, which they've speculated on changing (see the Reddit AMA summary thread)
  
• amplifiers
  

Don't assume players won't be clever enough to find some interesting synergy out of these. "Interesting synergy" is good. "Overpowered," well, that's somewhat subjective, but usually not a healthy thing for the game. I'm glad it will be on open test with no NDA for months before launch. Honestly, I'd rather they start with a broad scope and narrow it when the interesting synergies devolve into OPness, then have a bland system where only one or two builds are actually viable.

It's exactly this. The playerbase is more clever than the devs, and even though that gets proven time and time again, they continue with the hubris of thinking they can anticipate how it's going to play out.

I'm all for horizontal progression, (because the variety is fun) provided the combat team is capable of balancing it continually. Given their track record, I just don't think they can.

Now reading all this I still struggle to understand your point. Given the benefit of the doubt that this is not a simple "ESO is better than SWTOR and I just want to dump a load in here" thread, what exactly do you expect the devs to do? Since you clearly state that they should not approach the mechanics of ESO because you attest incompetence to them, are they supposed to let it be and only introduce new story leaving the progression and itemization as it is?

I literally say ESO and SWTOR are apples and oranges. So I'll take that benefit of a doubt, thank you.

I don't have to attest incompetence to them, their record speaks for itself. The patch for class rebalancing took a year after 5.0 to happen, and by their own admission, in the patch notes, certain classes were vastly op. Their excuse? A member of their combat team took some family time. If that's not incompetence and gross negligence what is it?

What are they supposed to do? Not ESO horizontal progression, unless significant resources and restructuring are put into the combat team. Clearly it's not working now, and adding tacticals and varying set bonuses increases increases the amount of variables buy a huge amount.

As an example, if there's 100 variables for them to track in the current meta, adding just two different tacticals to each of the 8 advanced class means that those potential variables have doubled, since a character would have either one tactical or the other. Now add just one new set bonus for each class in addition to the old ones. Now you have 400 variables to track. Every time you add a set bonus/tactical the variables double, and soon you have thousands of variables instead of the 100 you stared with.

Get the concept yet? They couldn't handle 100 variables, and now they'll have thousands. This is a disaster. They want the ESO cookie, but don't understand all the calories it has in it.

Well... this conversation put me off ESO.

But i do agree that Bioware should do more often balance patches. Powertech has been underpowered in suvivability and probably overpowered in output for 2 years. While it is still fun to play, it really should'nt be that way.

I mean, it's possible that is the intent, but i dunno. Definitely not for the tank spec though.

Btw copying good features from other games is a good thing to do. Many devs and fans seem to forget that. A good game is better than an original game that plays like *** (*cough* GW2 *cough*).

Well... this conversation put me off ESO.

 

But i do agree that Bioware should do more often balance patches. Powertech has been underpowered in suvivability and probably overpowered in output for 2 years. While it is still fun to play, it really should be that way.

I mean, it's possible that is the intent, but i dunno. Definitely not for the tank spec though.

 

Btw copying good features from other games is a good thing to do. Many devs and fans seem to forget that. A good game is better than an original game that plays like *** (*cough* GW2 *cough*).

It's good to copy positive aspects of other mmos, provided Bioware is capable of doing it well. That's what you should have said. Trying to copy something and failing, that has the potential to damage the game and the playerbase.

100% agree with you on PT. They're one op dcd away from being the undisputed top dps for pvp. What happens when they get a set bonus that provides that?

Maybe you think there's only one "best" healer, and only use that one. That's more of a WoW mentality, and I never really wanted to subscribe to that way of thinking.

 

Companions in SWTOR are a crutch. They're a good story telling element sometimes, but mechanically they were used to cover balance issues for solo PVE.

 

I agree that vanilla SWTOR has a soul. I'd argue that the community of ESO is the soul.

I healed endgame and templar is hands down the best - the others are too slow (warden).

Companions are the best thing here. Can run around as heal and my comp kills stuff.

Well ESO never had a soul and the players were the unfriendliest I ever experienced. Made the mistake to say that I´m a woman - urghh. Also the french can´t play!

And in ESO its easier to not make dps because of the many skills. Dungeons could be really annoying that way. And you need mods to play this damned game. The vanilla hud is unplayable.

tldr: when I quit SWTOR I missed it all the time, when I quit ESO I didn´t feel a thing.

Huh, so I'm guessing you were on the Euro megaserver?

The NA ESO people have always been pretty friendly, there's often a general chat convo in the starting zones about how nice people are. Anyway, glad you like SWTOR at least.

Huh, so I'm guessing you were on the Euro megaserver?

Yes, my friends played there - with them it was fun at first. But then I saw how they added content and kept players busy. More dungeons and raids and equip and skills. Probably like in wow. They don´t do it bad but its not great or memorable either.

In SWTOR are so many things I love (light sabers, I love Arcann and Mako, I think the sorcerer looks elegant while healing, jetpacks, spaceships, big laser cannons. And all classes have unique abilities.

Also funny dialog (the guy on Alderaan who says he´d rather see the planet blow up than to surrender to the empire - I laughed so hard) and so much more.

There are many things that are frustrating (currently the lags) but it´s still the only MMO out there for me.

Thanks for this thread, it reminded me of all unique things I love about this game.

Have fun at whatever you play.

It's exactly this. The playerbase is more clever than the devs, and even though that gets proven time and time again, they continue with the hubris of thinking they can anticipate how it's going to play out.

 

I'm all for horizontal progression, (because the variety is fun) provided the combat team is capable of balancing it continually. Given their track record, I just don't think they can.

That's true in every MMO I've ever played. People always find ways to do things which the devs either didn't see, or didn't think was possible. However, since I bounce back and forth between ESO and here, how "balancing" was allowing a brand new alt access to every perk point earned by your main? Since every point you earn on your main in the "mastery" system they use for end game progression is available to every toon on your account, from level 1.

It's all good to play "comparison bingo" with MMOs, but since ESO had as much contention about that point as you're bringing up for gear perks here, it's probably not the best way to go. Especially since I can point you to gear shells that you can craft, assuming you have the levels in crafting, that are locked behind a level requirement to equip, with no mods attached, I'm going to guess that this new system will roughly follow that model, especially since you can't even start getting that gear until you're at cap.

The devs could copy something from Eso. For example, the interest in the game.

It seems like there's a few people interested in this game already, otherwise, we wouldn't be here discussing it.

Pros of ESO:

1) They release a fair amount of content.

2) They are one of the few MMORPGs which appear to be gaining population. They had a huge display at E3 and the devs admitted they were surprised by the population gain.

3) Graphics. The game is beautiful. There are times I paused just to watch the lighting from sunsets.

4) Open world exploration. No one does it better.

5) Picking the ESO voice actors who also voice acted SWTOR (there are several).

Cons of ESO:

1) Every side quest is exactly the same as Mubrak points out. It's either: A) My relative is missing; or B) My guards screwed up. Do something about it. For the smaller zone main quests, it's inevitably someone betrayed the ruler, find out who that is, kill them.

2) Main quest characters aren't memorable outside of maybe Raz and Abnur Tharn. At risk of poor Kodrac thinking I'm stalking him (I pretty much always agree with him)...the quests are mile-wide and inch deep.

3) The biggest issue, again identified by Kodrac, is that that the classes don't feel that different. There are about 3 classes in ESO given the way the weapon skills work.

I haven't played SWTOR since May 20 because that was when ESO released its new expansion (and from what I read about the lag issues, I got lucky). With that said, the Elseweyr expansion for ESO is a pretty solid expansion. But for whatever faults ESO has (and there are several) -- they do invest in new content.

Dasty

It seems like there's a few people interested in this game already, otherwise, we wouldn't be here discussing it.

-.-

I mean the devs should be more interested in Swtor. The devs of ESO are interested in their game.

I don't really mind or care either way, if people like ESO or SWTOR more. They're two vastly different games. I like em both.

The concern here, is that Bioware doesn't understand, or have the resources and staff to deal with horizontal progression, when they can't even deal with vertical end game progression and balancing.

The concern here, is that Bioware doesn't understand, or have the resources and staff to deal with horizontal progression, when they can't even deal with vertical end game progression and balancing.

I don't think this is a fair assumption, regardless of the wisdom of being cautious on our parts as players. Regardless, I take a lot of comfort in the open testing process this summer. Thinking back to the last couple of major things I was on PTS to test, Eternal Championship and the GSF balance changes, I can say without a doubt they acted directly on our feedback.

Have they done anything like this before? No.

Are they doomed to fail? Of course not.

I don't think this is a fair assumption, regardless of the wisdom of being cautious on our parts as players. Regardless, I take a lot of comfort in the open testing process this summer. Thinking back to the last couple of major things I was on PTS to test, Eternal Championship and the GSF balance changes, I can say without a doubt they acted directly on our feedback.

 

Have they done anything like this before? No.

Are they doomed to fail? Of course not.

When 5.0 launched, the players knew from the start that mercs and snipers were completely overpowered. It took them, without exageration, a year to balance it out. Their excuse was that they had a member of the combat team take family leave.

One member of the staff takes a few months off, and that causes them to fail?

It's a completely fair assessment to realize they can't handle this, unless they hired a bunch more experienced mmo devs specifically for balancing out the set bonus/tactical situation. They're not going to be doing the monthly balances that are going to be required to handle this.

Just returned to SWTOR after playing ESO for a few years.

Feels so cool to play my Trooper again...

Amazing to see all the improvements and advancements SWTOR has made since I left.

Specifically in things like the UI and tracking achievements and such.

When I play my Trooper, I feel like I am a Trooper!

The story pulls me in.

I still love the style of the graphics... (timeless?)

GW2 story ... blah blah blah.

I just liked the super easy to learn mechanics and the way they encouraged teamwork and helping other players

ESO... great story and graphics and such, but I never read any of the books and never heard of any movies.

So for me, the story does not resonate.

I barely pay attention, cause the main heroes and villains have no meaning to me.

Mostly I just love the combat style and the endless experimenting with different builds and character development.

And now, I'm back to SWTOR...

After playing GW2 and then ESO I'm really missing that "active" style of combat.

I want both! I want SWTOR combined with elements from ESO combat... (dreamer..)

Instead of just relying on gear stats to protect/defend, you have to also block and or dodge roll.

SWTOR combat feels too static or stationary (?).

Like my gear makes the most difference instead of my movement and skill.

Constantly watching my skill bar and cool-downs instead of watching and enjoying the combat in front of me.

For me, the most perfect game:

SWTOR with max 5 - 6 skills on each weapon/ hotbar and only 2 weapon/ hotbars (primary and secondary weapon)

Some sort of actual block mechanic

Some sort of active dodge mechanic

PORT to console!!!

SWTOR would be the most epic game to play together with my kids.

SWTOR would be the most epic game to play together with friends ...who don;t do PC gaming for various reasons.

Well, just had to say these things, since we're on pandemic lock-down and gaming is part of how I/ we escape the stress and uncertainty...