--

Marauder/Sentinel is the PvE DPS champ right now. Put 4 in a group, and get ready for Bloodthirst/Inspiration to hit a home run (when a guild does this, we'll see the first 2k DPS being surpassed on non-Heavy Fabricator fights).

 

Gunslinger/Sniper are very competitive post-buff.

 

Sorcs/Sage rule in fights with a lot of target switching, pausing, and movement like Colonel Vog and Jarg + Sorno

 

Mercs/Commandos are a distant last. 15-20% worse (on average). Their DPS histogram curve follows the other classes hard, and most likely need a buff.

 

Other classes have less data so the results are less accurate, but you can see the spoiler for two example bosses raw summary. These are summary statistics and don't describe the whole story.

 

 

 

 

 

---

 

This is based on 1500+ logs that have been uploaded since dpsmeter.com was launched 6 days ago and on our rankings data.

 

We are working on a blog to present visualizations of the summary data, but it might take some time to get up because we're prioritizing log parsing features.

 

Bioware, any plans for Merc/Commando tweaking?

Edited May 1, 2012 by beardchef

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Marauder/Sentinel is the PvE DPS champ right now. Put 4 in a group, and get ready for Bloodthirst/Inspiration to hit a home run (when a guild does this, we'll see the first 2k DPS being surpassed on non-Heavy Fabricator fights).

 

They are now the kings of pvp also. Amazing how few I saw in pvp pre 1.2 but now the FOTM players are leveling them like mad. Hard to find a sub 50 pvp match that doesnt have 3+ on each side on our server.

Good news is I started an alt Marauder before it was fotm..and I'll still play him when he's no longer fotm.

I don't disbelieve you, but I'd also like to see your data presented more clearly. The webpage you linked seems to list individual top performers and not aggregate. Additionally, you did not mention spec - it is reasonable to assume that many commando/merc's may be healing spec and not trying to dps, whereas sentinals/gunslingers only have DPS specs and the aggregate would not be held back by healing/tank spec. Does your parser intelligently account for this? Finally you omitted: juggernaut, assassins, powertechs, and operatives (empire side). How'd they do?

We finished 8 man HM EC and have it on farm. At this point, we don't allow anyone but Jedi Sentinels for DPS. Their DPS is too good. Even in the hands of an amateur player in half Rakata, Sentinel DPS is way too good (4 inspirations LOL), and with the class buffs, we don't have to worry about mixing and matching classes. Our makeup:

 

2x Jedi Shadow (tank)

2x Jedi Sage (heals)

4x Jedi Sentinels DPS

 

Zorn and Toth were a little tricky, but if you're careful, you can prevent a lot of damage.

We finished 8 man HM EC and have it on farm. At this point, we don't allow anyone but Jedi Sentinels for DPS. Their DPS is too good. Even in the hands of an amateur player in half Rakata, Sentinel DPS is way too good (4 inspirations LOL), and with the class buffs, we don't have to worry about mixing and matching classes. Our makeup:

 

2x Jedi Shadow (tank)

2x Jedi Sage (heals)

4x Jedi Sentinels DPS

 

Zorn and Toth were a little tricky, but if you're careful, you can prevent a lot of damage.

 

And so the "you must be x class, in y gear or you don't get to go" attitudes begin.

And so the "you must be x class, in y gear or you don't get to go" attitudes begin.

 

Or just don't take bad players?

 

If you're insecure about your playstyyle or performance - you shouldn't be raiding in a legitimate guild in the first place.

Marauder/Sentinel and Gunslinger/Sniper should be the kings of single target DPS. Both mirrors are far more immobile than their other DPS counterparts.

 

I agree that Mercs do need a buff, but it should not be up to level of Sniper or Marauder.

I've seen the same thing in my Guilds ops and DPS meters...

 

I am fine with Marauders and Snipers being "top dps".. but Mercs need to be at the 90-95% mark of Mara's and Snipers.. and right now they definitely aren't.

 

Funny thing is.. Mercs used to be Top DPS, now they are bottom! Thanks for all the Nerfs, Bioware!

Edited May 1, 2012 by -Kraxis-

I don't disbelieve you, but I'd also like to see your data presented more clearly. The webpage you linked seems to list individual top performers and not aggregate. Additionally, you did not mention spec - it is reasonable to assume that many commando/merc's may be healing spec and not trying to dps, whereas sentinals/gunslingers only have DPS specs and the aggregate would not be held back by healing/tank spec. Does your parser intelligently account for this? Finally you omitted: juggernaut, assassins, powertechs, and operatives (empire side). How'd they do?

 

Hi Willhouse.

 

Our rankings data does factor in class in our database tables, but we have not added the talent specs to the rankings page yet -- however, you see them everywhere else on the site.

 

As far as presentation concerns, please keep in mind the dimensionality of the data set is very large. It is difficult to present succinctly. As I mentioned, I will be putting up a blog post on the site that will allow you to drill down on the summarized data more effectively using some of our charting tools. I am even thinking of creating a page that has the full summary data updating every 24 hours, with histograms for each time bucket.

 

In the meantime, I can provide you with some details -- on the data set I performed the analysis on, I factored in the following:

 

class, talent spec, encounter, DPS distribution. On sample sizes that were large enough for these buckets, I can take a population standard deviation, mean and also a median.

 

I do have data for the other classes, but they are not played/uploaded as much, but on the limited data set I do have, I will edit the OP and add in some info.

Edited May 1, 2012 by beardchef

And so the "you must be x class, in y gear or you don't get to go" attitudes begin.

 

No...We bring in whoever has the most damage. At the moment, it is Sentinels. In the hands of an average player, Sentinels do great DPS. In the hands of a seasoned player, it is downright awesome. No other class even compares at the moment.

Here are two example bosses. They're just samples (using them because they had the most data.) -- Marauder | Sentinel is #1 most fights.

 

Zorn & Toth

CLASS_NAME %_AWAY_FROM_#1 AVG_DPS STD_DEV

• Juggernaut | Guardian 0% 1,139.50 134.49
  
• Operative | Scoundrel -6% 1,065.56 125.99
  
• Marauder | Sentinel -8% 1,049.71 170.97
  
• Sniper | Gunslinger -9% 1,039.56 148.51
  
• Sorcerer | Sage -10% 1,022.03 201.14
  
• Assassin | Shadow -12% 1,006.94 162.35
  
• Mercenary | Commando -19% 924.70 147.58
  
• Powertech | Vanguard -21% 901.33 141.94
  

 

Stormcaller & Firebrand

CLASS_NAME %_AWAY_FROM_#1 AVG_DPS STD_DEV

• Marauder | Sentinel 0% 1,172.14 176.62
  
• Juggernaut | Guardian -5% 1,115.50 123.87
  
• Assassin | Shadow -8% 1,083.67 167.46
  
• Sorcerer | Sage -8% 1,076.00 191.25
  
• Powertech | Vanguard -10% 1,058.00 145.43
  
• Sniper | Gunslinger -13% 1,015.00 187.32
  
• Mercenary | Commando -15% 993.15 167.00
  
• Operative | Scoundrel -18% 962.25 162.37
  

Edited May 1, 2012 by beardchef

I don't think you are going to see any Merc/Commando buffs. Your data conforms with most players' personal experience. But BW's data looks at things differently. Their data is going to continue to show Merc/Commando as overpowered and they will continue to nerf them. Correspondingly Mara/Sent will continue to be buffed. We are probably only about halfway through the melee buffing process.

Very interesting data. It does confirm what people already believe from play.

Marauder/Sentinel and Gunslinger/Sniper should be the kings of single target DPS. Both mirrors are far more immobile than their other DPS counterparts.

 

I agree that Mercs do need a buff, but it should not be up to level of Sniper or Marauder.

 

Marauders and Sentinels are immobile? Lol. And Sniper/Gunslinger have perks while they're immobile that offset the disadvantages while also having longer range. The dps potential should be even across the board, with skill determining who does top dps.

well theres no way to measure skill with parsers. I mean you can get a rough idea but theres many random events that cause random factors into the fights.

 

At the end of the day theres always going to be one class on the bottom. In this case Merc/commando is not at the bottom its 2nd last. Its numbers arent that far off. Theres no gear listed/specified which also needs to be factored in. I don't believe that this small amount of data is justification for a buff.

 

I mean when I look at this data supplied in the OP i think operative/scoundrel needs a buff because they actually finish last on the 2nd fight and have no survivability.

Marauders and Sentinels are immobile? Lol. And Sniper/Gunslinger have perks while they're immobile that offset the disadvantages while also having longer range. The dps potential should be even across the board, with skill determining who does top dps.

 

Frankly, that's impossible for a mmo unless you only want one class. Since mara/snipers give up heal/tank perks, they are compensated with damage.

We finished 8 man HM EC and have it on farm. At this point, we don't allow anyone but Jedi Sentinels for DPS. Their DPS is too good. Even in the hands of an amateur player in half Rakata, Sentinel DPS is way too good (4 inspirations LOL), and with the class buffs, we don't have to worry about mixing and matching classes. Our makeup:

 

2x Jedi Shadow (tank)

2x Jedi Sage (heals)

4x Jedi Sentinels DPS

 

Zorn and Toth were a little tricky, but if you're careful, you can prevent a lot of damage.

 

I just have a quick question and I'm not trying to be condescending or rude.

 

When you gear up only your sentinels for DPS. what happens when their damage gets adjusted and someone else takes the 'top' spot? you just geared up one class that may/or may not get a hefty nerf. it seems like it's a good short term plan, but a terrible long term plan for your guild.

 

Also, you said you just finished HM EC, and now you have it on farm...you just finished it. how could it be on 'farm' now. It may be easier, but to my understanding, farm status is more or less you can bring in someone's alt and still be fine and you've completely out grown the content. If it's on 'farm status,' wouldn't you move onto Nightmare.

 

I've only completed it on story mode (not enough tanks for group two to do it on HM), so I'm not hugely experienced. it's just from what i've gathered.

--

Marauder/Sentinel is the PvE DPS champ right now. Put 4 in a group, and get ready for Bloodthirst/Inspiration to hit a home run (when a guild does this, we'll see the first 2k DPS being surpassed on non-Heavy Fabricator fights).

 

Gunslinger/Sniper are very competitive post-buff.

 

Sorcs/Sage rule in fights with a lot of target switching, pausing, and movement like Colonel Vog and Jarg + Sorno

 

Mercs/Commandos are a distant last. 15-20% worse (on average). Their DPS histogram curve follows the other classes hard, and most likely need a buff.

 

Other classes have less data so the results are less accurate, but you can see the spoiler for two example bosses raw summary. These are summary statistics and don't describe the whole story.

 

 

Zorn & Toth

CLASS_NAME %_AWAY_FROM_#1 AVG_DPS STD_DEV

Juggernaut | Guardian 0% 1,139.50 134.49

Operative | Scoundrel -6% 1,065.56 125.99

Marauder | Sentinel -8% 1,049.71 170.97

Sniper | Gunslinger -9% 1,039.56 148.51

Sorcerer | Sage -10% 1,022.03 201.14

Assassin | Shadow -12% 1,006.94 162.35

Mercenary | Commando -19% 924.70 147.58

Powertech | Vanguard -21% 901.33 141.94

 

Stormcaller & Firebrand

CLASS_NAME %_AWAY_FROM_#1 AVG_DPS STD_DEV

Marauder | Sentinel 0% 1,172.14 176.62

Juggernaut | Guardian -5% 1,115.50 123.87

Assassin | Shadow -8% 1,083.67 167.46

Sorcerer | Sage -8% 1,076.00 191.25

Powertech | Vanguard -10% 1,058.00 145.43

Sniper | Gunslinger -13% 1,015.00 187.32

Mercenary | Commando -15% 993.15 167.00

Operative | Scoundrel -18% 962.25 162.37

 

 

 

---

 

This is based on 1500+ logs that have been uploaded since dpsmeter.com was launched 6 days ago and on our rankings data.

 

We are working on a blog to present visualizations of the summary data, but it might take some time to get up because we're prioritizing log parsing features.

 

Bioware, any plans for Merc/Commando tweaking?

 

so the classes built around doing ONLY DPS are the best at doing DPS... seeing how the lead COMBAT dev said they should be slightly higher then the other classes, it seems that they did things right.

No offense but nobody uses DPSMeter.com at all right now. The logs that do get uploaded are likely just random test logs like the one I uploaded the other day to see what kind of output you guys have. Your site has a lot of potential but the mass majority of top guilds have never heard of it yet. Merc DPS is heavily dependent on Crit and since the mass majority of players don't remod gear to min/max your results will be skewed. Annihilation Maras, Sniper, and Sorcs don't have an extreme reliance on one specific stat so they will parse much higher with default modded gear. Merc heat management is tied entirely to crit and they scale extremely well with the stat and extremely poorly without it. Our top Merc is lightyears ahead of most mercs on our server and even most mercs in other top guilds because he min/maxes his gear perfectly. It's night and day between a merc that gears correctly and one that doesn't. Edited May 2, 2012 by Tumri

DPS Meter looks like a promising site. I've only spent a few minutes playing with it so far, but I had one concern.

 

It doesn't seem to be distinguishing between failed attempts and successful kills when sorting by DPS. This makes almost all the quoted numbers highly misleading, if I'm not mistaken. The amount of DPS one can do in a failed 30 second pull is usually very different from the DPS of the entire encounter. This also varies greatly by class, as certain specs are far better at burst than they are sustained. For proper comparison here, rankings would have to only count successful kills.

 

I'm sure you're still working on polishing up the site - just something to keep in mind.

Edited May 2, 2012 by Trephination

Frankly, that's impossible for a mmo unless you only want one class. Since mara/snipers give up heal/tank perks, they are compensated with damage.

 

Any mmo that has a class system that's the goal. It's is impossible, mostly because balance is a subjective assessment, because scaling changes, because fight conditions change and the particular nuances of a fight are going to favor one class over others inherently. That doesn't mean they intentionally screw most of the classes they design by giving one or two classes an auto win in the pvp/pve department by giving them extra damage. Terrible design.

DPS Meter looks like a promising site. I've only spent a few minutes playing with it so far, but I had one concern.

 

It doesn't seem to be distinguishing between failed attempts and successful kills when sorting by DPS. This makes almost all the quoted numbers highly misleading, if I'm not mistaken. The amount of DPS one can do in a failed 30 second pull is usually very different from the DPS of the entire encounter. This also varies greatly by class, as certain specs are far better at burst than they are sustained. For proper comparison here, rankings would have to only count successful kills.

 

I'm sure you're still working on polishing up the site - just something to keep in mind.

 

Right now we adopted the worldoflogs standard of 2 minutes length required in any fight to be submitted for rankings. We would like to do boss-death-only rankings, but this is difficult because Bioware only logs death events in the log of the player that got the final killing blow. Right now, most logs are solo uploaders and very rarely have a death event. We will keep trying to lobby Bioware.

 

Oh, and TY for the positive words. What you see now is just a fraction of what we have planned. We want to be the best Log tool out there.

No offense but nobody uses DPSMeter.com at all right now. The logs that do get uploaded are likely just random test logs like the one I uploaded the other day to see what kind of output you guys have. Your site has a lot of potential but the mass majority of top guilds have never heard of it yet. Merc DPS is heavily dependent on Crit and since the mass majority of players don't remod gear to min/max your results will be skewed. Annihilation Maras, Sniper, and Sorcs don't have an extreme reliance on one specific stat so they will parse much higher with default modded gear. Merc heat management is tied entirely to crit and they scale extremely well with the stat and extremely poorly without it. Our top Merc is lightyears ahead of most mercs on our server and even most mercs in other top guilds because he min/maxes his gear perfectly. It's night and day between a merc that gears correctly and one that doesn't.

 

Hi Tumri,

 

There is no harm in uploading your merc's log to prove your point. As far as top guilds not using our site, I would have to disagree with you. Methodical has uploaded 15 raids. Millenium has 4 raids. Even among the top guilds that are using dpsmeter.com, I see similar patterns.

I'm going to have to agree with Tumri.

 

I've broken 2k DPS on multiple fights in KP as a sorc dps, and I usually do over 1400 and up to 1600 on all the fights in EC. Looking over the results submitted, I can't buy that many good guilds are doing this.

 

You should work on an interface tool, so we can give you a raid key from MOX and you can import the logs that way. I don't want to force my raiders to upload all of their logs manually. If you did that, I'd have no problem submitting my raid key nightly.

Edited May 2, 2012 by xenofire