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Sorcerer Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Sorcerer Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback
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FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
06.22.2019 , 08:39 AM | #21
The set bonuses don't seem to be really that mind-blowing, they're kind of underwhelming. Madness tactical items are definitely good though. Wrath is the only one I'm iffy about but its mostly because we don't know much about the new ability.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

GamingCrimes's Avatar


GamingCrimes
06.22.2019 , 09:11 AM | #22
First of all, Iíd like to point out that the following feedback is from the perspective of a PvE player, specifically a Nightmare/Master Mode raiding guild.


Set Bonuses:

Energized Overload:

Doesnít sound like it changes the gameplay a lot. The damage that would be the result of this set bonus would need to be higher than the damage that is lost by using overload over any other ability. Right now this sounds not only clunky but useless and maybe even hindering in raid scenarios.

Gathering Storm:
First of all, I am unsure as to what is meant by ďUsing Polarity Shift immediately after extends its durationĒ - which duration?
However, this set bonus does sound intriguing as it could seriously buff the damage output of the lightning sorc, especially in combination with Death Channel. To be honest, I see this more as a possible tactical than a set bonus.
Additionally, this definitely has a bigger impact on lightning (where you currently do use Force Speed) than on Madness. Is it your plan that set bonuses will be designed for one spec with 6.0 instead of the way it is right now, where there is one set bonus for all DPS specs of one class.

Dark Consumption:
Depends a lot on the numbers, seems fine for a 4 piece bonus. Might make force management for sorc heals even more of a joke. I personally feel like consuming Weary stacks should have a negative impact as well, like giving the target you heal a small DoT in exchange for the bigger initial heal. On the other hand, Reverse Corruption could give another small HoT to the target.

Revitalize:
Seems a little bit boring, in addition to this you could maybe give Resurgence two charges, might become too strong though.

Tactical Items:

Sorcerer:
Dark Cleanse:
Seems very weak and very situational.

Liberate:
Seems like a meme, the free resurgence isnít really needed for force management. The heal granted through pulling someone towards you has to be very big in order to justify the incoming flame from the sad melee dps.

Preserve Self:
Seems a little bit weak for PvE

Dark Return:
Depends on the tuning, seems like a fun new AoE Ability, especially since you donít really need the Phase Walk for movement.

Overall these general tacticals donít really feel like they actually change the gameplay a lot and I feel like they should be buffed a lot more.

Corruption:
All For One & One For All:
This either gives you an additional single target heal, but greatly reduces your AoE healing capability, or buffs your existing AoE heal. One For All doesnít really seem good when you have melee DPS in the raid, All For One however just buffs the ability.

Extra Mend:
It doesnít sound very interesting or game-changing, and I canít see anything that would make a healer decide to use his tactical slot for this one item.

Healing Volts:
In principle a damaging ability that causes an ally to be healed is, IMO, a very welcome addition to the gameplay. Still, the way I see it at the moment it would have to be a strong burst heal for it to be prefered over other tacticals since it must be an improvement to your healing output and not only a fun addition to the way your class works, at least for a player who is interested in optimizing your character and playstyle like me.

Lightning:
Death Channel:
Could be a good buff to the damage output of a lightning sorc, especially when combined with the aforementioned Gathering Storm. Still in its design it sounds more like a passive in your skill tree than a tactical that is supposed to change your playstyle or optimization for specific encounters.

Volt Flux:
This does sound very promising (maybe even a bit OP, although that is to be judged on PTS). It could be good tactical you swap in for aoe heavy encounters.

Convection Burst:
This does sound like a PvP tactical. I canít see any use for it in PvP anyways.

Stormwatch:
Basically the same as with Death Channel, a passive damage increase.

Madness:
Exhaustion Field:
While a 10% damage buff on your Death Field is certainly quite nice, the second part of the description does again sound rather like a PvP passive. I deduce that it is intended for PvP.

Ruthless Demolition:
I like this one. It would definitely impact your playstyle and could offer some decent burst damage.

Writhing Terror:
This just adds RNG and doesnít impact your rotation at all. This shouldnít be a tactical.

Wrath Rushdown:
This tactical sounds like it has enough impact on gameplay and damage output that it is in the range of what I imagined a tactical would be. However, the 50% less force cost doesnít have any impact if the force management stays the same as it is right now.

Generally speaking, most of these tacticals donít really live up to the expectations that my guild had for them. Most of them are either too weak or they are simply passive. There also arenít really any outstanding synergies that I can think of and right now I feel like these tacticals just add something small to your gameplay but they donít actually define it.
What Iím also unsure about is the new ability, because it just doesnít make sense to me to give it to the Corruption spec if itís only really useful for healing if you have the Healing Volts tactical.
Boatank Myr'cella

Raidlead of <Flawless> @Tulak Hord

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.22.2019 , 09:33 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by GamingCrimes View Post
First of all, Iíd like to point out that the following feedback is from the perspective of a PvE player, specifically a Nightmare/Master Mode raiding guild.


Set Bonuses:

Energized Overload:

Doesnít sound like it changes the gameplay a lot. The damage that would be the result of this set bonus would need to be higher than the damage that is lost by using overload over any other ability. Right now this sounds not only clunky but useless and maybe even hindering in raid scenarios.

Gathering Storm:
First of all, I am unsure as to what is meant by ďUsing Polarity Shift immediately after extends its durationĒ - which duration?
However, this set bonus does sound intriguing as it could seriously buff the damage output of the lightning sorc, especially in combination with Death Channel. To be honest, I see this more as a possible tactical than a set bonus.
Additionally, this definitely has a bigger impact on lightning (where you currently do use Force Speed) than on Madness. Is it your plan that set bonuses will be designed for one spec with 6.0 instead of the way it is right now, where there is one set bonus for all DPS specs of one class.

Dark Consumption:
Depends a lot on the numbers, seems fine for a 4 piece bonus. Might make force management for sorc heals even more of a joke. I personally feel like consuming Weary stacks should have a negative impact as well, like giving the target you heal a small DoT in exchange for the bigger initial heal. On the other hand, Reverse Corruption could give another small HoT to the target.

Revitalize:
Seems a little bit boring, in addition to this you could maybe give Resurgence two charges, might become too strong though.

Tactical Items:

Sorcerer:
Dark Cleanse:
Seems very weak and very situational.

Liberate:
Seems like a meme, the free resurgence isnít really needed for force management. The heal granted through pulling someone towards you has to be very big in order to justify the incoming flame from the sad melee dps.

Preserve Self:
Seems a little bit weak for PvE

Dark Return:
Depends on the tuning, seems like a fun new AoE Ability, especially since you donít really need the Phase Walk for movement.

Overall these general tacticals donít really feel like they actually change the gameplay a lot and I feel like they should be buffed a lot more.

Corruption:
All For One & One For All:
This either gives you an additional single target heal, but greatly reduces your AoE healing capability, or buffs your existing AoE heal. One For All doesnít really seem good when you have melee DPS in the raid, All For One however just buffs the ability.

Extra Mend:
It doesnít sound very interesting or game-changing, and I canít see anything that would make a healer decide to use his tactical slot for this one item.

Healing Volts:
In principle a damaging ability that causes an ally to be healed is, IMO, a very welcome addition to the gameplay. Still, the way I see it at the moment it would have to be a strong burst heal for it to be prefered over other tacticals since it must be an improvement to your healing output and not only a fun addition to the way your class works, at least for a player who is interested in optimizing your character and playstyle like me.

Lightning:
Death Channel:
Could be a good buff to the damage output of a lightning sorc, especially when combined with the aforementioned Gathering Storm. Still in its design it sounds more like a passive in your skill tree than a tactical that is supposed to change your playstyle or optimization for specific encounters.

Volt Flux:
This does sound very promising (maybe even a bit OP, although that is to be judged on PTS). It could be good tactical you swap in for aoe heavy encounters.

Convection Burst:
This does sound like a PvP tactical. I canít see any use for it in PvP anyways.

Stormwatch:
Basically the same as with Death Channel, a passive damage increase.

Madness:
Exhaustion Field:
While a 10% damage buff on your Death Field is certainly quite nice, the second part of the description does again sound rather like a PvP passive. I deduce that it is intended for PvP.

Ruthless Demolition:
I like this one. It would definitely impact your playstyle and could offer some decent burst damage.

Writhing Terror:
This just adds RNG and doesnít impact your rotation at all. This shouldnít be a tactical.

Wrath Rushdown:
This tactical sounds like it has enough impact on gameplay and damage output that it is in the range of what I imagined a tactical would be. However, the 50% less force cost doesnít have any impact if the force management stays the same as it is right now.

Generally speaking, most of these tacticals donít really live up to the expectations that my guild had for them. Most of them are either too weak or they are simply passive. There also arenít really any outstanding synergies that I can think of and right now I feel like these tacticals just add something small to your gameplay but they donít actually define it.
What Iím also unsure about is the new ability, because it just doesnít make sense to me to give it to the Corruption spec if itís only really useful for healing if you have the Healing Volts tactical.
To be honest, I agree. The question now is, what could they do to actually define the gameplay though? I was making suggestions in the forums as to new abilites but thats beyond their capabilities. I beleive that they should have tacticals that increase your primary attack by 400% but decrease your other abilities or have tacticals were you can make pure speed builds or control builds. A control build would include roots/hardtuns and ccs and a speed build would include reduction of cooldown on force speed, and high alacrity. Maybe even a distance build were your entire build is based off of roots and knockbacks, allowing players to maintain there distance from melee classes. Or even include high damage intake builds were you take a lot more dmg but your dps is reduced. Those would be better tacticals imo ie, your armor rating is increased by 200% but you do 50% less dmg. Or your movement speed is increased by 175% but your armor rating is decreased by 25%. Something like that.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.22.2019 , 09:44 AM | #24
Perhaps try adding something an ability for dps sorc/sages where force bubble grants impairment and hardstun immunity to hardstuns, slows and cc. Or force speed grants immunity to all movement impairment, cc and hardstun abilites while active.

Rouvean's Avatar


Rouvean
06.22.2019 , 01:16 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I wish there was a Set Bonus or Tactical that had a specific effect or modified a specific ability not listed.
What I would REALLY like to see - as a Madness Sorcerer main - is either removing the target limit for Death Field or vastly increasing its radius. That, I think, would really define the playstyle for me, as we are a spec that thrives on DoT.

Rouvean's Avatar


Rouvean
06.22.2019 , 01:27 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Delani View Post
To be honest, I agree. The question now is, what could they do to actually define the gameplay though? I was making suggestions in the forums as to new abilites but thats beyond their capabilities. I beleive that they should have tacticals that increase your primary attack by 400% but decrease your other abilities or have tacticals were you can make pure speed builds or control builds. A control build would include roots/hardtuns and ccs and a speed build would include reduction of cooldown on force speed, and high alacrity. Maybe even a distance build were your entire build is based off of roots and knockbacks, allowing players to maintain there distance from melee classes. Or even include high damage intake builds were you take a lot more dmg but your dps is reduced. Those would be better tacticals imo ie, your armor rating is increased by 200% but you do 50% less dmg. Or your movement speed is increased by 175% but your armor rating is decreased by 25%. Something like that.
I agree. I wish there were tacticals and set bonuses that focused on an aoe build, but I'm a Madness Sorc so I'm slightly biased, wanting all that DoT and sweet lifesteal.

Stookydroid's Avatar


Stookydroid
06.22.2019 , 04:05 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
,
New Ability - Volt Rush
DDeals energy damage to your target and energizes you for up to 5 seconds. The Energize effect can stack twice, with each stack increasing Volt Rush damage by 30%. The ability has 3 charges and a recharge timer of 10 seconds.
-eric
this better be off gcd.if it isn't, this is either useless, or ruins madness rotation and is bad filer in lightning. Please be off gcd.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Energized Overload - Overload energizes you. Volt Rush deals more damage when you are under the Energize effect.
  • Gathering Storm - Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polarity Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
  • Dark Consumption - Dark Heal heals more if you have a Weary or Reverse Corruption stack and consumes 1 stack upon use.
  • Revitalize - Healing a target with another ability while Resurgence is active on them has a chance to cause an extra Resurgence tick for half. Refreshing Resurgence on a target refunds some force.
-eric
the overload stuff is useless. overload is an ability on the gcd, a dps would use it in their rotation unless the energizing effect was absurdly overtuned, this is also bad for when fighting mobs, as you don't want your dps knocking the mobs to aoe them down. just keep overload to a pvp/styrak ability, please.
gathering storm: good for lightning, meh for madness
dark consumption: good for heals
revitilize: good for heals
overall, fix the dps set bonuses. the overload one is stupid, and gathering storm is useful for 1 of the 2 specs.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
,
Sorcerer
  • Dark Cleanse - Consuming Darkness lowers the cooldown of Expunge by 3 seconds.
  • Liberate - Extrication now heals you and the target and makes your next Resurgence free.
  • Preserve Self - Activating Unnatural Preservation removes Static Barrier's Deionize effect from you.
  • Dark Return - Returning to your Phase Walk marker causes a force explosion around you, dealing damage to any enemies around.
-eric
dark cleanse: useless. you wouldn't take this in any fight
liberate: extrication omegalul. also useless.
preserve self: decent, especially for madness in pvp as lightning has 10% dr on deionized
dark return: absolutely useless.

THESE are what you go with for TACTICAL, GAMEPLAY DEFINING items, for sorcerer? really??
preserve self should be a utility point. the other three are garbage and would not ever be taken even as utility points.
please fix this.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.22.2019 , 04:35 PM | #28
Dark return should be Dark Depart

Using your phase walk causes a force explosion around you, dealing damage to any enemies around.

The purpose of phasewalk is to get away from players lol!!!! If there was an explosion that did dmg to the enemies around you when used phasewalk then it would actually be viable. The way it is not, I do not think players would ever use this unless the smg was a 30k crit, therefore making it a waste of a tactical item.

Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.22.2019 , 04:52 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Rouvean View Post
I agree. I wish there were tacticals and set bonuses that focused on an aoe build, but I'm a Madness Sorc so I'm slightly biased, wanting all that DoT and sweet lifesteal.
Yes exactly, something like all dots applied to all targets are increased by 10% or dots duration ticks longer or dot duration extends ticks for every extra person hit with a dot. Something like that. And possibly a ranged build, all ranged attacks are increased to 40-50 meters. Those are class defining tacticals.

DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
06.22.2019 , 07:16 PM | #30
You contradict yourself with how Volt Rush works. In the ability description, you say that the Energize stacks are buffs on you but in some of the tactical item descriptions, it's worded as if the Energize stacks are debuffs on enemies. This is a very important distinction as it heavily impacts target swap capability. I really think it should work as a buff on the player instead of a debuff. Both DPS specs already have enough target swap limitations with Affliction in Lightning and the DoTs in general with Madness. It doesn't need another thing.

It's a little hard to tell how strong the following will be without being able to see the precise damage/healing/percentage numbers of some of these effects.
  • Healing Volts - The usefulness of this item will depend largely on how strong the heal and damage from Volt Rush are. People won't use it if it's a weak heal and won't use Volt Rush if it doesn't deal more damage than Shock and Force Lightning. This tactical is also dependent on healers dealing damage, so this will require accuracy to make use of.
  • Death Channel and Stormwatch don't have different use cases. They're both single target damage increases so which one gets used will depend entirely on which one has a stronger effect. Both of these effects are also RNG-based and Lightning already has an overabundance of RNG effects, which I'm not a fan of, but Stormwatch seems like it would be a cool looking effect so I expect that more (uninformed) players will pick that one even if Death Channel is stronger.
  • Wrath Rushdown - If I'm understanding this correctly, this tactical just lets Wrath work with Volt Rush. It seems the incentive is that you'd use one Force Lightning to proc this ability and then use three Volt Rushes in a row before using Force Lightning again to get ready to proc Demolish's Wrath.
  • All for One and One for All are an interesting pair of tacticals and it will be good to have both, but I feel that they're gonna have to really amp up the healing since Extra Mend automatically provides more AoE or single target healing depending on what's needed and it's a HoT. One for All might be frustrating to use if someone else runs into the circle when you won't want them to. I think it would be better if it just made Revivification single target, this will have to make it a very strong single-target heal since it's a Hot, is very expensive, has a long cast time, and removes most of the sorc's AoE healing capabilities.
  • Ruthless Demolition, Writhing Terror, and Wrath Rushdown are all effectively single target damage increases just like Death Channel and Stormwatch, so which one gets used will be entirely dependent on which provides the strongest overall DPS increase.

Some of them seem much less helpful.
  • Dark Cleanse - Expunge already has a very short cooldown and raid mechanics are all built around that cooldown. There isn't enough that is cleansable in PvP either. You're also spending a very significant amount of time over the course of this cooldown where you aren't doing much healing at all, at least 4.5 seconds (2 Expunges and one Consuming Darkness) but all that for a 3 second cooldown reduction isn't worth it so you either need to spend 6 seconds not healing or this is not a valuable tactical.
  • Liberate and Revitalize - Extrication is rarely used because it's so situational. I don't like the idea of giving this a big heal either because bad healers are going to take this and use Extrication when they shouldn't. Resurgence is already dirt cheap and heals for a small amount so who cares if it's free or heals for more, the purpose of the ability is to get the Force Bending proc and not pay attention to who this gets used on.
  • Preserve Self - The only use I see for this is if it is paired with the Lightning Barrier utility, however this tactical item becomes more useful with the less ticks you get out of Lightning Barrier so its usefulness is questionable. Static Barrier is almost never the difference between life and death for a sorc. Force Barrier is what prevents people from dying if it comes to that. If you're not taking Lightning Barrier, you're either wasting a GCD as a DPS that could be spent towards killing whatever is about to kill you or just heal yourself with your other abilities as a healer.
  • Gathering Storm means that raiders will lose access to on-demand Force Speed entirely and be forced to take Surging Speed for the cooldown reduction on Force Speed to get Polarity Shift as often as possible
  • Energized Overload - This seems lame, I could maybe see this being a 2 piece set bonus but certainly not 4 or 6.
  • All of the Set Bonuses - All of the Set Bonuses need to be reworked.

I also have some other questions about the rationale behind some of the tacticals:
  • Volt Flux - Does Lightning Storm get triggered off a separate rate limit? If not, then this part of the item is pointless because it is already exceedingly easy to proc Lightning Storm. The other piece of the effect seems like a nice increase in AoE damage though.
  • Exhaustion Field - How is this going to work with the Conspiring Force utility that slows players affected by Affliction. If they don't work at the same time, it makes one of them useless.

I'm concerned about some of them wrecking rotations.
  • Dark Consumption - This promotes all sorts incorrectness with force management and is inconsistent in what it consumes. Weary reduces your force regeneration rate while Reverse Corruption increases it, I don't understand why an ability would consume both. You shouldn't be using Dark Heal without the proc because it is inefficient and costly, you shouldn't be incentivized to use an inefficient ability when you're already low on Force. I would say that this would be better if it only consumed Force Surge stacks and made the healing increase work so it's equal or greater to Dark Infusion.
  • Dark Cleanse - Already talked about how this one forces you to spend a lot of time not healing. It also doesn't mesh well with the Dark Consumption set bonus.
  • Wrath Rushdown and Volt Flux, and really Volt Rush in general will significantly reduce the number of fillers in the rotation. For Lightning, this means that Fulgurous Fortification and Charged Reaction will have even less uptime. For Madness, it means Fulminating Current will have less uptime. If you ask me, all of these could be made into passives instead of procs to fix this (and it would be good for all rotation-altering procs to be changed into passives), but at the very least the duration of these needs to be increased.
  • Dark Return will enable Phase Walk to be used to deal damage off the GCD, meaning players will want to use it on cooldown in raids but that will be gross. I'd recommend making it not deal single-target strength damage and put it on the GCD and make the cast time 1.5 seconds so it can't be used in this way.

I really like most of what's been done as effects though. I want to give special attention to:
  • Dark Return - I've wanted this sort of thing for a long time. I hope it looks something like Malgus' Leeching strike ability.
  • Healing Volts - I love getting to DPS and heal at the same time and more naturally incorporate DPSing into healing
  • Stormwatch - This is just gonna look super awesome, so much lightning!!!!!
  • Convection Burst - This is gonna be pretty mandatory in PvP because it makes Thundering Blast much harder to mitigate with an interrupt or roll.
  • Volt Flux - This one will also look equally cool as Stormwatch hopefully so I won't feel bad giving it up in AoE situations.
  • Ruthless Demolition - I really like how you're giving an option for a tactical that allows Madness to be more bursty.