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Sorcerer Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Sorcerer Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback
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Delani's Avatar


Delani
06.21.2019 , 01:38 PM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by kerplunkcatt View Post
So, two things here:

1: I play mainly as a Madness sorc, so firstly, thanks (Heavy sarcasm voice) for an additional ability. That spec was already a bit bloated, so I was really looking forward to trying to cram another thing into it.

2: The tactical items were meant to be "Build defining". Tell me, how is death field doing a tiny bit more damage and spreading another ability I have no intention of putting on my bar "Build defining."?

I know that this is just the first phase of them, and they are obviously subject to change, but I just find that most of that is quite underwhelming. The healers got off nice with the few things about resurgence. That would change how they used the ability. Meanwhile, 10% more damage to something doesn't change how we use it at all.

The next question that I have is not in relation to set bonus/ tacticals, but for the new ability. Is Volt Rush going to be off the GCD? Honestly that would validate it for me, but if it is going to generate a GCD then I am going to swap to lightning so that I don't get a disease from the new Madness rotation.
Yea they shouldnt have used the word "build defining" LOL. Build defining is increasing the dmg on force lightning significantly while other abilities do 50% less dmg. But to be fair, Madness will do a LOT more dmg to single targets and well watch a lot of people melt and most likely ask for nerfs.

WhiteOsprey's Avatar


WhiteOsprey
06.21.2019 , 01:39 PM | #12
Want to add my concern about ability bloat with the additions of new abilities. Heidyn talked about the Madness rotation already feeling a bit bloated, which i agree with, but there are definitely other dps specs where this could be a problem also. Is this something the team is taking into account and keeping an eye on?
Bau'er The Revanchist: Sniper Gannikus: Anni Marauder RIP (launch-3.0)

tolaez's Avatar


tolaez
06.21.2019 , 02:01 PM | #13
No.
Stop.
Please, seriously stop attaching things to overload. And extricate too for that matter, but I doubt that will see much use anyway.

Seriously no one wants mobs needlessly being flung around constantly. As a melee player this is beyond annoying.

Please! Stop incentivizing trolltastic behavior! PLEASE

DarthCognusSion's Avatar


DarthCognusSion
06.21.2019 , 02:55 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

New Ability - Volt Rush
DDeals energy damage to your target and energizes you for up to 5 seconds. The Energize effect can stack twice, with each stack increasing Volt Rush damage by 30%. The ability has 3 charges and a recharge timer of 10 seconds.
My concern here is how much damage this ability is going to do and by what passives from each skill tree it will be affected. In order for us to truly give any meaningful feedback, this is information we need to know. What is the base damage of the ability? Is the 30% increase per stack additive or multiplicative?

Clearly the goal here is to provide an ability that provides ramping damage. However, I foresee a big problem with the energize duration and the effective cooldown of this ability. Sure, it recharges every 10s, but the only way that you are going to want to use this optimally is when you can use all three charges, which means even if you are spacing out each Volt Rush activation to maximize the duration of the energize buff/debuff then it still has an effective cooldown of 20 seconds. If not, then its cooldown will be as high as 30 seconds. Additionally, if the damage is subpar with the first 2 hits, then it is going to feel really bad to be using 2 low dps gcds just to get 1 good or even great gcd.

For Lightning, I can see how this ability will slot in, assuming the damage numbers are there. This ability has to hit harder than Lightning Bolt with no stacks of Energize, and should hit harder than both Chain Lightning and Lightning Flash with max stacks of Energize. If it doesn't, I don't really think this is going to be that great an ability.

For Madness, this ability becomes a rotational nightmare at first glance. With only a 5 second buff/debuff duration on Energize, this is going to force Madness to use Volt Rush in spots that are going to feel awkward. On top of that, Force Lightning is incredibly important for force management, so you are not going to want to replace that with this.

My overall recommendation upon seeing this ability, is to change the duration of Energize to longer than the ammo recharge. So in its current form, I would suggest a 15s duration for Energize with the 10 second ammo recharge. However, I recognize that without damage numbers currently available, this could be providing too big a burst every 10 seconds. Therefore, if that is the problem, my suggestion is to increase the ammo recharge time to 15 seconds, and make the Energize buff last 20 seconds.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Set Bonuses
These bonuses will likely have the high end of piece requirements, such as requiring 4 or 6 pieces. The smaller piece bonuses will be more passive in nature (stat benefits, etc).
  • Energized Overload - Overload energizes you. Volt Rush deals more damage when you are under the Energize effect.
  • Gathering Storm - Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
  • Dark Consumption - Dark Heal heals more if you have a Weary or Reverse Corruption stack and consumes 1 stack upon use.
  • Revitalize - Healing a target with another ability while Resurgence is active on them has a chance to cause an extra Resurgence tick for half. Refreshing Resurgence on a target refunds some force.
These all look ok for the most part. However, forcing overload as a means to Energize is just not a good design if Overload's damage is going to remain where it is. Either have this set bonus also increase the damage of Overload massively, or just make Force Speed trigger this because it has a similar cooldown and would fit better.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Tactical Items

Sorcerer
  • Dark Cleanse - Consuming Darkness lowers the cooldown of Expunge by 3 seconds.
  • Liberate - Extrication now heals you and the target and makes your next Resurgence free.
  • Preserve Self - Activating Unnatural Preservation removes Static Barrier's Deionize effect from you.
  • Dark Return - Returning to your Phase Walk marker causes a force explosion around you, dealing damage to any enemies around.
I don't really see these being used too much given the discipline specific. Dark Return could be fun in some scenarios if it does enough damage though.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Corruption
  • All For One - Revivification heals more for each ally it affects.
  • One For All - Revivification heals more the fewer allies it affects.
  • Extra Mend - Roaming Mend can now heal up to 5 targets instead of 4.
  • Healing Volts - Damaging an enemy with Volt Rush causes your ally closest to the enemy to be healed, scaling with how many Energized stacks are on the enemy.
Healing Volts is a great idea. Sorc healers need to be able to do more damage, and being able to heal at the same time is a very cool idea so this one is awesome. The two Revivification tacticals could be fine, depending on numbers. These aren't super exciting for "changing how you play your class", but if the numbers are there I think that it's fine. Extra Mend is similar. It isn't exciting, but it is going to add more healing so I guess it's okay.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lightning
  • Death Channel - Forked Darkness now has a greater chance to activate and Crushing Darkness deals more damage each time it ticks.
  • Volt Flux - Volt Rush triggers Lightning Storm when activated. Chain Lightning spreads the Energized effect and causes your next Volt Rush to arc to nearby targets.
  • Convection Burst - While under Convection, activating Lightning Flash grants an additional Convection stack. 3 Convection stacks allow Thundering Blast to be activated instantly, consuming all stacks.
  • Stormwatch - Lightning Flash applies Stormwatch to it's targets. Anytime this target it critically hit in the next 10 seconds, a weaker Lightning Flash is applied to them.
Death Channel is going to either be extremely strong or completely useless depending on how much more of a chance Forked Darkness has to proc and how much more damage Crushing Darkness is dealing. I don't foresee this being good enough to take over Stormwatch for single target.

Volt Flux look amazing for AoE. I have one question though. How is it spreading Energize though if Energize is a buff and not debuff? As you say here:
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Deals energy damage to your target and energizes you for up to 5 seconds.
I don't see anyone taking Convection Burst over these other 3. It just doesn't provide enough.

Stormwatch is cool and I like this idea. Is it any time the target is critically hit, or just any time you critically the target though?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Madness
  • Exhaustion Field - Death Field does 10% more damage to all targets spreads Force Slow's effects.
  • Ruthless Demolition - Demolish deals 20% more damage on initial hit. Additionally, under Polarity Shift, Demolish resets the cooldown of Force Leech, and causes the next Force Leech to activate instantly.
  • Writhing Terror - Creeping Terror has a 10% chance to tick an additional time whenever Force Lightning deals damage.
  • Wrath Rushdown - When Force Lightning generates 4 stacks of Wrath, you gain Wrath Rush, allowing your next 3 Volt Rushes to deal 25% more damage and cost 50% less Force. Volt Rush consumes all stacks of Wrath.
Similar to the overload set bonus, I don't understand the desire to push terrible dps abilities into dps rotations under any circumstance. Even if it is useful in the new operation, it won't be useful anywhere else except maybe pvp sometimes, though I honestly doubt it. I would suggest changing it to applying force slow to all targets it hits. Having to actively use Force Slow is just not going to feel good, and the damage amp for Death Field isn't high enough to justify taking this in my opinion.

Ruthless Demolition looks really cool and decently strong. I think this could create a new interesting rotation for madness.

The percentage on Writhing Terror is just too low to justify taking this over Ruthless Demolition or Wrath Rushdown.

Wrath Rushdown also seems interesting and could be good depending on how good Volt Rush is. Also please change the name to just Wrath Rush. Rushdown just sounds bad.

My final thoughts regarding these changes:
I think that there are some good ideas here. I don't like that we have no numbers to go along with them because it makes feedback incredibly hard to give. I am disappointed that this isn't on PTS to test right now as was originally said. Please provide some damage and healing numbers so we can give better feedback on all of these changes.
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dipstik's Avatar


dipstik
06.21.2019 , 03:18 PM | #15
can we get a set bonus or tactical to take consuming darkness off the gcd if we have 1 or more stacks of reverse corruptions...(use charges or soemthing so people dont abuse or accidently kill themselves). or something that gives sorc healers an ability that regens health (like diagnostic scan etc.) (i would love a tactical that makes force lightning or force storm regen force on crits)

this is only for healer sorcs...

JuMpStyleForEver's Avatar


JuMpStyleForEver
06.21.2019 , 03:47 PM | #16
Hello,

just wanted to throw in some feedback from the point of a noobish player.
I only play Lighning Sorcerer DD in PvE content, so i will judge every proposed Set Bonus and Tactical Item solely for its usefulness in this content. Also I only did storymode Operations and mastermode Flashpoints, so i have no experience in higher difficulty gameplay. If you have and find my thinking to be completly off, feel free to correct me.

(So why do I even care about endgame gearing? Yeah good question, dunno what to tell you, I just like to theorycraft? Is that even a thing in SWTOR? Anyway atleast I plan to attend higher difficulty content someday.)

So here are my thoughts:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Energized Overload - Overload energizes you. Volt Rush deals more damage when you are under the Energize effect.
Not sure about Overload. To me it seems its an PvP ability (in combination with the Utility that roots people), can't really think about a fight where you want to use it, i never do. (again correct my ignorance pls)
Using Overload, and therefor an GCD, which you could have used for a damage ability, just to generate an stack of Energize seems doesn't seem worth to me. (again correct me)
So basically an useless bonus.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Gathering Storm - Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
Well, this means basically a higher uptime on the offensive CD in fights where you want/need to move a lot anyways.
Honestly don't know how many fights that are. But Bioware balances dps of melee classes higher, because they have to move more to deal with mechanics, so ranged can't be required to move that often.
(Yes you probably guesed right, i don't really like that design approach, but again who am i to judge? Maybe i got it all wrong.)
In fights where you don't need to move, it would again be a wasted CD you could have used for a damage ability.
Not sure if this is worth. More uptime on 20% alacrity will improve dps quite a bit. Someone with math skills needs to investigate if the shorter GCD time equals (or excels) the lost GCD.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[*]Dark Consumption - Dark Heal heals more if you have a Weary or Reverse Corruption stack and consumes 1 stack upon use. [*]Revitalize - Healing a target with another ability while Resurgence is active on them has a chance to cause an extra Resurgence tick for half. Refreshing Resurgence on a target refunds some force.
Both Bonuses are obviously aimed at healers, which is of course not a bad thing, but useless for my DD sorcerer.

From the general inquisitor Set Bonuses:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Decelerate - Force Slow now has 2 charges. Using Force Slow on an enemy already under the effect of Force Slow slows them by an additional 20% and extends the duration.
Its an PvP Bonus as you can't sloe bosses.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Gyre - The cooldown of Whirlwind is reduced by 10 seconds. In addition, killing any enemy before Whirlwind ends resets the cooldown of Whirlwind.
I only use whirlwind when soloing H4 heroics, don't see much other use, so meh.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Seething Power - Overload increases your damage reduction by 10% for 10 seconds. Getting attacked during this time causes your next Force attack to critically hit. This effect can only occur once every 10 seconds.
Basically an interesting option, damage reduction and guaranteed crit don't seem bad. (Compared to the rest)
But why Overload? Same problem as above, don't think its worth using Overload for this.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Powered Electrocute - Electrocute's stun lasts an additional 2 seconds.
Seems to be pretty much a PvP thing, as you can't stun bosses.

Tactical items:

Sorcerer in general:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Dark Cleanse - Consuming Darkness lowers the cooldown of Expunge by 3 seconds.
Liberate - Extrication now heals you and the target and makes your next Resurgence free.
I think these are intended for healer, not really usefull for DD.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Preserve Self - Activating Unnatural Preservation removes Static Barrier's Deionize effect from you.
Very defensive. I don't think sorc should be about defense, as they are no tanks, but that could just be me.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Dark Return - Returning to your Phase Walk marker causes a force explosion around you, dealing damage to any enemies around.
Who uses Phase walk to get back into the fight?

Specifically for lightning:

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Death Channel - Forked Darkness now has a greater chance to activate and Crushing Darkness deals more damage each time it ticks.
Volt Flux - Volt Rush triggers Lightning Storm when activated. Chain Lightning spreads the Energized effect and causes your next Volt Rush to arc to nearby targets.
Convection Burst - While under Convection, activating Lightning Flash grants an additional Convection stack. 3 Convection stacks allow Thundering Blast to be activated instantly, consuming all stacks.
Stormwatch - Lightning Flash applies Stormwatch to it's targets. Anytime this target it critically hit in the next 10 seconds, a weaker Lightning Flash is applied to them.
I think the devs did a great job with these, really like them, all of them would be useful, if I continued to play like i do just now (so not even trying to make to best out of it).
No need to change anything here.


So i critizised like all of the Set Bonuses, but what would i like to see instead?
Maybe something like this:
"Upon dealing critical damge, there is a chance of X% to gain Buff Y, which allows you to instant cast Thundering Blast."
Or something like that, that enhances the main damage abillities of the sorcerer.

That's it. Explanations why i am wrong are encouraged.

PS: Sorry for incorrect english


tl,dr:
Lightning specific tacticals are good, everything else is meh for lightning sorc dps

kukumburr's Avatar


kukumburr
06.21.2019 , 05:30 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Preserve Self - Activating Unnatural Preservation removes Static Barrier's Deionize effect from you.
So bubble stun (3s cc) -> less than 12s of hitting the sorc (assuming healer with the 15s deionize) -> bubble stun -> unnatural preservation -> bubble stun (6s of cc) -> less than 12s of hitting the sorc -> bubble stun (3s cc)-> less than 12s of hitting the sorc -> bubble stun -> unnatural preservation -> bubble stun (6s of cc)? Please no.

Bubble stun only gives 300 resolve so it can hit 4 times in a row before you're white barred. Or twice + hard stun or whirlwind. So basically every 30ish seconds you can get hit with a 10-14s stun chain.

Can we either adjust how resolve works or stop adding more slows and stuns to the game? Please?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Exhaustion Field - Death Field does 10% more damage to all targets spreads Force Slow's effects.
Again, either adjust resolve or stop adding more slows/stuns. It's not fun!

Darthanimus's Avatar


Darthanimus
06.21.2019 , 06:29 PM | #18
I am not especially happy about getting a damage ability as a healer. I think that healers could've benefited from an AoE cleanse or new healing ability.

If not an actual new AoE cleanse, then something like the following.
After activating unnatural preservation, expunge clears all debuffs from a single target or 2 debuffs from all allies in a 10 meter radius.
Scorpio finds the starforge, becomes an immortal AI god, and gets worshiped by Ewoks.

Red Eclipse

ddttor's Avatar


ddttor
06.22.2019 , 12:42 AM | #19
I'm maining sorc healer for last 4 years(mostly HM/NiM PvE, but occasionaly PvP). And I'm kinda disappointed by those tacticals and set-bonuses. You've said those would be build-defining, yet we're simply getting some new utilities.

Still, here's my opnion on them

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

New Ability - Volt Rush
DDeals energy damage to your target and energizes you for up to 5 seconds. The Energize effect can stack twice, with each stack increasing Volt Rush damage by 30%. The ability has 3 charges and a recharge timer of 10 seconds.
This *might* be interesting, but how much damage it deals compared to regular shock/lightning strike?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Set Bonuses
These bonuses will likely have the high end of piece requirements, such as requiring 4 or 6 pieces. The smaller piece bonuses will be more passive in nature (stat benefits, etc).
  • Energized Overload - Overload energizes you. Volt Rush deals more damage when you are under the Energize effect.
  • Gathering Storm - Activating Force Speed reduces the cooldown of Polairty Shift by 5 seconds. Using Polarity Shift immediately after extends its duration.
  • Dark Consumption - Dark Heal heals more if you have a Weary or Reverse Corruption stack and consumes 1 stack upon use.
  • Revitalize - Healing a target with another ability while Resurgence is active on them has a chance to cause an extra Resurgence tick for half. Refreshing Resurgence on a target refunds some force.
Now this's just underwhelming.
Dark Consumption may be nice for force management, but it's not like we have problems with it. Unless it's buffing Dark Heal by 50+%, I don't think I'll consider using it.
Revitalize - really depends on that chance.

I think I like my current "-1,5 seconds to Innervate cooldown" more.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Sorcerer
  • Dark Cleanse - Consuming Darkness lowers the cooldown of Expunge by 3 seconds.
  • Liberate - Extrication now heals you and the target and makes your next Resurgence free.
  • Preserve Self - Activating Unnatural Preservation removes Static Barrier's Deionize effect from you.
  • Dark Return - Returning to your Phase Walk marker causes a force explosion around you, dealing damage to any enemies around.

Corruption
  • All For One - Revivification heals more for each ally it affects.
  • One For All - Revivification heals more the fewer allies it affects.
  • Extra Mend - Roaming Mend can now heal up to 5 targets instead of 4.
  • Healing Volts - Damaging an enemy with Volt Rush causes your ally closest to the enemy to be healed, scaling with how many Energized stacks are on the enemy.
Liberate - might be useful in PvP, depending on amount of healing received.
Preserve self - same, I see how it can be used with sorc PvP utilities for static barrier, but in generic scenario I would take something more healing-oriented.

Now, the healing tacticals are nice, but again, they really depend on numbers.
All for one should give atleast +10% for each affected target.
One for all something like +100% if it's healing one target, +50% if it's healing 2 targets and so on.
Extra mend is nice, but definitely not build-defining
Now healing volts is a really interesting one. If we would get Dark Heal - level healing with 0 stacks, I'd certainly consider it, cause I love dealing some damage with my sorc, even when Crushing Darkness is on CD.

meddani's Avatar


meddani
06.22.2019 , 07:36 AM | #20
I hope Volt Rush actually looks good/hits hard , something sorcs are lacking for some time now.
Maybe like valkorions dark blast skill, always wanted that .