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Your take on The Sith Order and the Jedi Order!


YeIIow

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Lately i have been researching and reading a lot about both orders, their code, its lore, how they started, prominent figures, etc, etc.... and well.... even tought i have allways felt "some simpaty" with the jedi, i finally came to the conclusion that i actually indentify myself better with The Dark/Fallen/Exiled Jedis and the "Sith Order".

 

To beging with, something really ironic that changed my point of view, is that it was the light sided force users the ones that comenced hostilities vs those who wished to expand their knoloadge and understanding of the Force and learn its secrets, the dark sided force users. in stead of being the other way around. Notice that am not talking about Jedis and Sith yet, since at the begining of the conflicts none of this orders existed as separate entities, but rather were toguehter in what was known as Je'daii Order, composed of the Ashla and the Bogan ....

 

I can completly see how those who wished to expand their knoloadge and power felt themselfs represed, subjugated and controlled by the other force users who rejected to embrace greater power from the force, and looked dawn on those who did. Hence why a faction left and decided to follow their own path..... How did the light sided force users reacted to their brothers leaving? War.... says a lot about them.....

 

i will expand later... feel free to give ur opinions on the topic...

 

EDIT:

For those who wish to have more information about it, i recomend u the following articles:

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Wars

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Order

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sith

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je%27daii_Order

 

EDIT 2: would be good if u read them all, before leaving ur opinion.... so u can actually make a stronger case on what ever ur take on the topic is. thanks

Edited by YeIIow
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Soooo. You agree with the sith way ( destroying planets, killing billions of innocents or trying even to extinguish all life in the galaxy) because their ancestors got their *** kicked by people that didn't have the "higher learning". Rrrrright.
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Soooo. You agree with the sith way ( destroying planets, killing billions of innocents or trying even to extinguish all life in the galaxy) because their ancestors got their *** kicked by people that didn't have the "higher learning". Rrrrright.

 

it was the light sided force users the ones that ataked the dark sided force users in the first place, wasent declaring war and open conflict on them just becouse they decided to follow their own path an act of genocide in a way?

btw destroying planets; killing billions of innocents and extinguish all life in the galaxy ain't exactly the sith way , its more the Emperator own way... as well as other extremist over curse of history....

 

as the sith code dictates:

 

"Peace is a lie, there is only passion.

Through passion, I gain strength.

Through strength, I gain power.

Through power, I gain victory.

Through victory, my chains are broken.

The Force shall free me."

 

in their eyes, it is all about having free will, being strong, obtaining greater knoladge, becoming stronger, and ultimatelly being master of own destiny.....

 

u can compare the Sith with the Spartans for instance.... Were spartans evil just becouse in their majority they were warriors and in a way loved war? Becouse they believed the Strong should rule over the weak?

Edited by YeIIow
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I guess extinguishing all life force in the galaxy is one way of becoming the strongest man in the galaxy. Hell, why try to stop him then, the man only want's superior knowledge.

Killing billions of innocents it's not war it's genocide. It doesn't show sigh of strength but of weakness. I don't compare sith with spartans, I compare them with WW2 Nazis.

Edited by Sebah
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I guess extinguishing all life force in the galaxy is one way of becoming the strongest man in the galaxy. Hell, why try to stop him then, the man only want's superior knowledge.

 

i guess starting a war and destroying other people because they don't agree with ur thinking/ way of life even if they do not interfere directly with u is ok then? that was what the so called light sided force users did...

 

Killing billions of innocents it's not war it's genocide. It doesn't show sigh of strength but of weakness. I don't compare sith with spartans, I compare them with WW2 Nazis.

 

No dark sided force user, sith, exiled, dark jedi or what ever u want to call them, ever comited genocide over billions of people neither they started a war on the once again so called jedi, light side force users....

 

EDIT: last line was refering to before and under the Old Republic period (where only The Sith Emperor and Darth Nihilus were exeptions)

Edited by YeIIow
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the games a bit wrong when they say they where not Jedi or sith yet they where callled Je'daii Order and they where brote to the planet Tython by the Tho Yor Pyramid Ships that collect force sensitive species from all around the galaxy including sith pure bloods. it is true there was no sith order or empire yet but the Infant empire was the dark power of this time

 

i would read the comics Dawn of The Jedi, Issue 0 is just a comic of a lot of info on the Je'daii Order but if not here a link to some info http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Je%27daii_Order

 

but i think the Je'daii code is the best my self

 

There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.

There is no fear; there is power.

I am the heart of the Force.

I am the revealing fire of light.

I am the mystery of darkness

In balance with chaos and harmony,

Immortal in the Force.

Edited by Genuine
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i guess starting a way and destroying other people because they don't agree with ur thinking/ way life even if they do not interfere directly with u is ok then? that was what the so called light sided force users did...

So you judge the current people by the action or their ancestors? I ask you again, is extinguishing all life in the galaxy justified by the fact that at some point in the past some dark side users got their *** kicked by some light side users?

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So you judge the current people by the action or their ancestors? I ask you again, is extinguishing all life in the galaxy justified by the fact that at some point in the past some dark side users got their *** kicked by some light side users?

 

the current people? sorry but we are 3k years on the past, the current people would be Sidius and Vader, none of them wished to exterminate all life in the galaxy pal, they just wanted to be the rulers of the galaxy, thing they acomplished.....

 

u ask me again and i ask u again : starting a war and destroying other people because they don't agree with ur thinking/ way of life, even if they do not interfere directly with u is ok then? as i said generalising the sith society as a whole by what the Emperator alone wishes to acomplish aint correct.

 

Since it seems u only know about sith traditions from what u see in the game, i will give u a clear example based on the game(s), why does Lord Scourge oposites the emperator and doesn't support his plans? Why does Darth Malgus choses to abandom the empire and Create his own. Why does Revan while being a Darth lord of the Sith followed his own path and tryed to stop the Emperator, why does the spirits of the ancient sith lords were ageinst the emperator and tried to stop him aswell? i recomend u to read a bitt more, before generalising about the sith and their ways...

 

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_Wars

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

Edited by YeIIow
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Seeking knowledge has limits. The Jedi who later became the Sith used the Dark Side of the Force to experiment with life. And I bet that's not that pleasent for the test subject. (One might try to justify it if it is for the greater good, like testing medicine or even testing poisons to warn people better. But that wasn't the case. They just wanted to know how much you could manipulate life.) And since we know they created some kinds of zombies, it's safe to assume they used sentients.

 

So if someone says: "Hey, maybe we could use the dark side to create zombies. Let's try it." I wouldn't be on his side. The Jedi Order tried to forbid it, but they just continued doing it. Only then the Jedi started to use force.

 

(That's the Second Great Schism, the one that created the Sith. The First Great Schism was more complicated and there the Jedi might have been wrong.)

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I guess extinguishing all life force in the galaxy is one way of becoming the strongest man in the galaxy. Hell, why try to stop him then, the man only want's superior knowledge.

Killing billions of innocents it's not war it's genocide. It doesn't show sigh of strength but of weakness. I don't compare sith with spartans, I compare them with WW2 Nazis.

 

^^ Absolutely. If one deeply considers it, the Jedi are better. They're not the most perfect group ever. Far from it. They have issues. They can be hypocrites. But as a whole they are infinitely more just and less freedom-suppressing then the Sith.

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Seeking knowledge has limits. The Jedi who later became the Sith used the Dark Side of the Force to experiment with life. And I bet that's not that pleasent for the test subject. (One might try to justify it if it is for the greater good, like testing medicine or even testing poisons to warn people better. But that wasn't the case. They just wanted to know how much you could manipulate life.) And since we know they created some kinds of zombies, it's safe to assume they used sentients.

 

So if someone says: "Hey, maybe we could use the dark side to create zombies. Let's try it." I wouldn't be on his side. The Jedi Order tried to forbid it, but they just continued doing it. Only then the Jedi started to use force.

 

(That's the Second Great Schism, the one that created the Sith. The First Great Schism was more complicated and there the Jedi might have been wrong.)

 

actually the so called "zombies" came after the Jedis began the war, the so called zombies where created in the first place to defend themselfs since they were by far outnumbered by the Jedis. if u read again http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

u will see that: The first form of Korriban zombies would be created during the earliest stages of the war...

 

i do recognise that the dark sided group was experimenting with life, but not human or other sapient form of life, other than animals, etc...

 

on a side note, great to see u agree on The First Great Schism being Jedis own fault....

 

^^ Absolutely. If one deeply considers it, the Jedi are better. They're not the most perfect group ever. Far from it. They have issues. They can be hypocrites. But as a whole they are infinitely more just and less freedom-suppressing then the Sith.

 

why would u exaclty judge and entire culture on something that was a Single Man idea and plan? hey all germans are Nazis, all "negros" are criminals, all irish are drunks, and norwegians vikings, all arabs are terrorists, all japanize are kamikaze... just saying...

Edited by YeIIow
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why would u exaclty judge and entire culture on something that was a Single Man idea and plan? hey all germans are Nazis, all "negros" are criminals, all irish are drunks, and norwegians vikings, all arabs are terrorists, all japanize are kamikaze... just saying...

It was a man's idea but let me tell you something... the others could have said something that will blow your mind, they could have said NO to his ideas. I'm not judging all Germans as you want to interpret it, i judging all Nazis as... well...as being Nazis. And let me tell you if you consider that the actions of a few in the past give you free passage to killing billions of innocent people in the present then your idea is flawed. You must not judge the son by the actions of his father...just sayin'...

Edited by Sebah
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actually the so called "zombies" came after the Jedis began the war, the so called zombies where created in the first place to defend themselfs since they were by far outnumbered by the Jedis. if u read again http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness

u will see that: The first form of Korriban zombies would be created during the earliest stages of the war...

 

i do recognise that the dark sided group was experimenting with life, but not human or other sapient form of life, other than animals, etc...

 

on a side note, great to see u agree on The First Great Schism being Jedis own fault....

 

Umm... no. You're right about the zombies, but you're wrong on everything else.

 

When it comes to the first Dark Jedi, the Jedi told them to stop. The Dark Jedi continued and the Jedi were forced to take action. To the Jedi, all life is sacred. The Dark Jedi weren't just manipulating life, but the Force itself. They were disrupting the laws of nature and The Force. That's why the Jedi took action. Such things must not be messed with.

 

Taking the side of the Sith? Really? In what instance have the Sith been the good guys? When have the Sith been the victims?

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It was a man's idea but let me tell you something... the others could have said something that will blow your mind, they could have said NO to his ideas. I'm not judging all Germans as you want to interpret it, i judging all Nazis as... well...as being Nazis. And let me tell you if you consider that the actions of a few in the past give you free passage to killing billions of innocent people in the present then your idea is flawed. You must not judge the son by the actions of his father...just sayin'...

 

once again, the emperator plans where those of his own, and little people if any knew of his ultimate goal.... known exeptions where Revan and Lord Scroudge, both of them tried to destroy the emperator, dident they? and yes u are judging all sith for what 1 man wanted, so its the same that judging all germans for what a bunch of naziz did....

 

 

Umm... no. You're right about the zombies, but you're wrong on everything else.

 

When it comes to the first Dark Jedi, the Jedi told them to stop. The Dark Jedi continued and the Jedi were forced to take action. To the Jedi, all life is sacred. The Dark Jedi weren't just manipulating life, but the Force itself. They were disrupting the laws of nature and The Force. That's why the Jedi took action. Such things must not be messed with.

 

Taking the side of the Sith? Really? In what instance have the Sith been the good guys? When have the Sith been the victims?

 

so where was i wrong then exactly? cos nothing of what u said contradicts anything of what i said... lol?

sorry but who are the jedis to tell other jedis what to do whit their powers? Dark jedis werent killing inocent people, they were experimenting on animals, and trying to reach eternal life.... they tryed to get all jedis to join their cause, when the other refused they left and followed their own path withown interfearing with the republic or the jedi order.... but hey... the "good guys" cant have people doing what they want, everybody who is a force user has to be under their controll, adn follow their ideals.. or they get killed.. right?...

 

when did the sith were victims? how about http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism .... they werent manipulating life itself back there yet... still the "nice guys" declared war on them....

 

what about at the end of http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Hyperspace_War when their race and civilization was almost exterminated?

 

even on http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness they were the victims, they did not atacked the jedis, they left the order to do what they wanted to do... yes ok, they started messing with "arcane arts" necromancy and **** after a wile, but still.... they were not slaving populations, killing inocents, taking sapient species as test subjects.....

Edited by YeIIow
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once again, the emperator plans where those of his own, and little people if any knew of his ultimate goal.... exeptions where Revan, Lord Scroudge both who tryed tod estroy the emperator dident they? and yes u are judging all sith for 1 man wanted, so its the same that judging all germans for what a bunch of naziz did....

should I start here to enumerate all sith in lore and their hidden agenda? I name just 1 that wasn't an emperor, Darth Nihilus. If you have played KotOR 2 you would know what his plans were and he was just 1 on many. When we're talking about sith yes I do generalize, all are evil. There are a lot of flaws in the jedi way but i would take that any day. Stop trying to excuse their murdering rampage and convert them into saints and martyrs.

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should I start here to enumerate all sith in lore and their hidden agenda? I name just 1 that wasn't an emperor, Darth Nihilus. If you have played KotOR 2 you would know what his plans were and he was just 1 on many. When we're talking about sith yes I do generalize, all are evil. There are a lot of flaws in the jedi way but i would take that any day. Stop trying to excuse their murdering rampage and convert them into saints and martyrs.

 

as i said( i quote myself)

 

btw destroying planets; killing billions of innocents and extinguish all life in the galaxy ain't exactly the sith way , its more the Emperator own way... as well as other extremist over curse of history....

 

there has been several extremist over the years, naming nihilus proves nothing, exept that ur knoloadge of sith story and traditions is only based on what the games show u.... and no, am not making the sith into saints or martyrs... where did i stated such things?

 

quote myself again:

 

 

even tought i have allways felt "some simpaty" with the jedi, i finally came to the conclusion that i actually indentify myself better with The Dark/Fallen/Exiled Jedis and the "Sith Order".

 

 

i haven't even stated anywhere that i disliked/oposited the jedi order as a whole....i do dislike many of their ideals, but i do recognise many other are well tought, and of value.... i am a very open sight person regarding many things and i try to give good facts over what i say....

Edited by YeIIow
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so where was i wrong then exactly? cos nothing of what u said contradicts anything of what i said... lol?

sorry but who are the jedis to tell other jedis what to do whit their powers? Dark jedis werent killing inocent people, they were experimenting on animals, and trying to reach eternal life.... they tryed to get all jedis to join their cause, when the other refused they left and followed their own path withown interfearing with the republic or the jedi order.... but hey... the "good guys" cant have people doing what they want, everybody who is a force user has to be under their controll, adn follow their ideals.. or they get killed.. right?...

 

when did the sith were victims? how about http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/First_Great_Schism .... they werent manipulating life itself back there yet... still the "nice guys" declared war on them....

 

what about at the end of http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Great_Hyperspace_War when their race and civilization was almost exterminated?

 

even on http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness they were the victims, they did not atacked the jedis, they left the order to do what they wanted to do... yes ok, they started messing with "arcane arts" necromancy and **** after a wile, but still.... they were not slaving populations, killing inocents, taking sapient species as test subjects.....

 

Do yourself a favor and read those links yourself.

 

First Great Schism they were both at fault.

 

You would feel different if you knew what Naga Sadow and the Sith did during the Great Hyperspace War. The Sith were a threat and the majority of the Sith Lords was cut off from The Force by Odan-Urr and the Jedi.

 

So as long as they don't enslave people, kill people, or use their foul arts on sentient subjects, you're alright with it? Oh goody.

 

Somebody doesn't understand the Dark Side. :rolleyes:

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as i said( i quote myself)

 

 

 

there has been several extremist over the years, naming nihilus proves nothing, exept that ur knoloadge of sith story and traditions is only based on what the games show u.... and no, am not making the sith into saints or martyrs... where did i stated such things?

I won't even try to argue with you because honestly it will lead to nothing. Others have tried too but you have your ideas and we have ours. we gave you reasons but you did nothing to back your ideas up with. by your idea if my father slapped your father in the past you have the right to kill me, my children, my neighbor, my neighbor's neighbor in the present. I have really no idea how is that justified in you view and how that makes you a good guy. Face it Sith= bad, jedi= god in Star Wars Universe and until you bring me valid reasons on why is the other way around I won't argue with you anymore. GOOD reasons and not just "but their ancestors kicked our ancestors buts". GOOD SOLID reasons to back up your claims. We gave you ours.

Edited by Sebah
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And another thing about the Hyperspace War. The Republic invaded to prevent another War. The Sith made suicide attacks to force the Republic to retreat. Then they killed themselves ritually.

 

Hmm...

 

Edit: Would you say Sidious taking over the galaxy is a good thing? What about Darth Krayt? Was Lord Kaan's actions justified? What about the Mandalore Wars? Or the Jedi Civil War? How about the Great Galactic War?

Edited by Aurbere
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Hmmm, unlike many other people here, I completely see where your coming from. The Sith began as the followers of Bogan who likely only saw themselves as expanding their knowledge of the Force. And as the second tenet of the Jedi Code dictates (and the first tenet of the Je'daii Code):

 

'There is no ignorance, there is knowledge.'

 

This only seems to encourage practice and discovery of the dark side, which led to the followers of Bogan and the Force Wars. The followers of Ashla, rather than embrace the Bogan teachings rejected the knowledge and so proved their own ignorance (the irony being that only after the war did they invent the tenet about knowledge, when the war itself revolved around the rejection of it.) Yes the dark side is dangerous, and yes it leads to hate, anger and suffering at the cost of power. But to reject knowledge of it completely, and refuse to comprehend it is to be willingly ignorant and will inevitably lead to more war between Jedi and Sith as they refuse to understand and accommodate their enemy - just reject them outright. Does this not seem in contradiction with the Jedi Code? Don't forget the often ommitted fourth tenet:

 

'There is no chaos, there is harmony.'

 

How many times have the Jedi willingly embraced chaos and rejected harmony by warring against the Sith? To achieve their distorted version of peace? It seems to be that the Jedi should have never rejected Bogan in the first place, and instead attempted to accommodate it into knowledge of the Force in a non-malevolent way. A difficult task yes, but a task the Jedi should have taken on to prevent countless deaths in the future. But they didn't, instead they embraced ignorance and chaos and to me that seems hypocritical. At least the Sith are true to their code.

 

And no, it is not a coincidence that Kreia would agree with me.

Edited by Beniboybling
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even on http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hundred-Year_Darkness they were the victims, they did not atacked the jedis, they left the order to do what they wanted to do... yes ok, they started messing with "arcane arts" necromancy and **** after a wile, but still.... they were not slaving populations, killing inocents, taking sapient species as test subjects.....

 

Do you believe they would have stayed that way?

If you start using the dark side, you start to want more. They would at least have taken sentient species as test subjects.

And I assume using the Dark Side to manipulate animals goes along with a lot of suffering for the test subjects.

 

Also, while reading this article, I found this:

 

"Firmly adamant in protecting their newly-acquired powers, this sect of Jedi sought to convince the other Jedi to join their quest for eternal life and galactic bliss. The others were not convinced, and tried to distance themselves from the situation. Firmly convinced that their way was right, the arguments turned into conflict. The rogue Jedi were exiled along with their teachings. A war had begun that would last a hundred years.

 

Retreating from Jedi worlds such as Tython, the exiled Jedi raised an animalistic army of dark side abominations."

 

So the Jedi tried to forbit it. The Dark Jedi didn't listen. Then the Jedi exiled them. Then the Dark Jedi started to raise an army. This sounds like the Dark Jedi actually started the war after being exiled.

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So you judge the current people by the action or their ancestors? I ask you again, is extinguishing all life in the galaxy justified by the fact that at some point in the past some dark side users got their *** kicked by some light side users?

 

You're comment display how little you know of the sith. It is only Darth Nihilus and The Sith Emperor who want tp extinguish all life in the galaxy. Nihilus because he can't control his endless hunger and The Sith Emperor because he is crazy. However, the sith themselves has no reason to destroy the galaxy, but want to shape it into the form that they see fit. Meaning that they want to change the world into what they view as a better place, and seriousy who doesn't? I mean take a character like Darth Caedus he sacrifices everything in order to bring order and peace to the galaxy. He takes the hard decsions in order to preserve the galaxy, he takes respondsabillity!

 

The jedi however, are hypocrits who are to afraid to take respondsabillity. They have special powers, yet they refuge to claim it and use it for the greater good. They see fit to seek knowledge and yet allow people without that knowledge to rule.

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