All "cloth/medium wearing *** hats" have companions that may need the gear and it's very possible they're rolling need for the companion. Since a companion is an extension of the player when they are playing solo, I understand why they may be rolling need on something that you think they cannot use. Is it annoying? Yes. Against the rules? No.

A companion is completely secondary, with presence they can run off cheap greens 10 levels back. As an actual player I should be priority one for the gear I've rightfully earned that was meant for my class, not some secondary extension. That is why there is Need, Greed and pass.... greed being for secondary purposes whatever they may be. The looting system should reflect that.

Mastering end-game operations requires better gear for your main. It does not require better gear for your companion.

If operations are not someone's goal, they are still equally deserving of a fair chance at the loot they helped earn. One may choose to offer a courtesy to their group mates but that's a personal choice, one way or the other... like it or not.

The looting system should reflect that.

It does. You just have to roll higher than the other guy that needs it.

You do not, however, have to agree with why he needs it.

According to RKLimes' principle it is perfectly understandableto do this behaviour:

" I will need on anything and everything, because if it may be a main spec upgrade, it may be relevant with my crew skill, it may be for an off spec, it may be for a companion, hell if all else fails since I gave enough effort to the FP I'm entitled to all the credits I can earn by vendoring all the stuff I can't use and since I invest the same time as anyone else, I deserve all the loot there just as much as anyone else"

The perfect mindest for someone that would select Need on everything. After all it's either for main spec, off spec, crew skill, companion, or credits.

I need not tell you folks how much of a chaotic and problematic pug atmosphere such selfishness could create.

All "cloth/medium wearing *** hats" have companions that may need the gear and it's very possible they're rolling need for the companion. Since a companion is an extension of the player when they are playing solo, I understand why they may be rolling need on something that you think they cannot use. Is it annoying? Yes. Against the rules? No.

WRONG. You do NOT need for companions. Sorry. Dead Wrong.

In all honesty, if you are not a guildie or on my friends list and just drop into my group, I don't give a damn about what you prefer. Unless the armor is weaker then I have on me or my companions, I will need it if necessary.

To difficult to figure out otherwise, since sometimes more then one want the same piece.

Please continue to make this clear off the bat. I'll be sure to drop group, /ignore you and you can spend 20 minutes waiting for a new tank. Asking if you can need a specific piece for a companion is fine, but if its an upgrade for a team mates main set, they should get it. They'll get more use out of it than your companion will, regardless of how much you solo.

 

Again, if you're needing for mods and someone else if you group can use the WHOLE item, you're being selfish. You can use maybe 2/3 mods for a small upgrade in stats and a better itemization. Your team mate is going up ATLEAST a tier of gear. Or rather, they're not because you just "Need"ed it.

 

Enjoy your increasing queue times and know that it wasn't caused by dropping population. You brought it on yourself.

 

EDIT: Looked at your character link and see you are a tank. I take solace in being on a different server, for if we were on the same you would end up as only the second tank I have ever /ignored. I hope you enjoy getting away with being a tool because of class imbalances.

Exactly this. For me this is just one more in a long list of reasons to despise the companions. People having the audacity and selfishness to need-roll on rare, limited items for what is essentially a permitted bot, diminish the game for everyone else. That they have that excuse to roll on items that their toon doesn't need at all, is yet more proof that companions are a bad, unnecessary element to the gameplay. Remove companions or companion gear, remove one excuse for need-rolling on other people's gear.

The WoW sytem, imperfect as it is, would be one solution to the broader issue. I'd rather not have to see implemented though. Would like to think that the majority of players aren't ******s.

In all honesty, if you are not a guildie or on my friends list and just drop into my group, I don't give a damn about what you prefer. Unless the armor is weaker then I have on me or my companions, I will need it if necessary.

 

To difficult to figure out otherwise, since sometimes more then one want the same piece.

And you would be one of the ones which will get kicked from my group every time if you need on an item for a companion without asking first when someone else in the group could use it to upgrade their character. Have fun with that hour long que if you are a DPS.

According to RKLimes' principle it is perfectly understandableto do this behaviour:

 

" I will need on anything and everything, because if it may be a main spec upgrade, it may be relevant with my crew skill, it may be for an off spec, it may be for a companion, hell if all else fails since I gave enough effort to the FP I'm entitled to all the credits I can earn by vendoring all the stuff I can't use and since I invest the same time as anyone else, I deserve all the loot there just as much as anyone else"

 

The perfect mindest for someone that would select Need on everything. After all it's either for main spec, off spec, crew skill, companion, or credits.

 

I need not tell you folks how much of a chaotic and problematic pug atmosphere such selfishness could create.

Lets be clear: In a single run I would only imply need rolling for one purpose. ie: not needing on both companion and toon loot in a single run. The point isn't to be a loot barb.

It's more selfish to say someone can't roll because you need it more than they do. You wouldn't have earned any special right to drops beyond that of the other people in your group.

Finally, your statement regarding credits has already been addressed. If you'd read previous posts you'd also see my willingness to lend a hand when it's needed.

Lets be clear: In a single run I would only imply need rolling for one purpose. ie: not needing on both companion and toon loot in a single run. The point isn't to be a loot barb.

 

It's more selfish to say someone can't roll because you need it more than they do. You wouldn't have earned any special right to drops beyond that of the other people in your group.

Yes, I would agree that if im playing as my sentinel in the same group as another sentinel and a peice of gear which would be considered an upgrade for the both of us drop, by saying that i need that peice of gear more than them would be considered selfish. However, it is absolutely not selfish to say someone in a flashpoint needing on a piece of gear for themselves needs it more than someone else needing for a companion.

Lets say your in a HM with me playing my shadow tank and a piece of tank gear dropped which would be a big upgrade for myself and you could use for your companion. How is your companion more important than myself when considering to need on that piece of gear? Last time i checked, if you have a full group in an operation or flashpoint, you are not running with companions. Gearing the individual will be 100% more important than gearing the companion. The ONLY time i could see the companion being more important is when the individual is only wanting that peice of gear to sell on the GTN.

If you can give me an example of when a companion contributed .000001% of anything to a full team, you have full right to need every time for the gear on your companion. Until then, the only time I would even consider it ok to need on anything regarding a companion is by asking the team first.

...

 

If you can give me an example of when a companion contributed .000001% of anything to a full team, you have full right to need every time for the gear on your companion. Until then, the only time I would even consider it ok to need on anything regarding a companion is by asking the team first.

Actually, this is a really fair point.

RKLimes, I would concede to your companion getting a Need roll if he/she were helping us in the Flashpoint. Say we lost a member and queue was too long and we decided to use a companion to complete the flashpoint. But if your companion isn't there, they contributed nothing.

You also didn't respond to the point I tried to make earlier. There are many many ways to gear up your companions that are better than a pug HM FP. Choosing to run a pug to gear up your companion is the selfish part.

The difference between your viewpoint and mine is that I'm more interested in what is best for everyone in the group. You somehow think that I am giving up my rights to loot or acting altruistic by saying that someone else's main gear spec upgrade is more important than my companion's gear. That's an Ayn Rand viewpoint in an MMO. I firmly believe that if everyone had your viewpoint the game would become a less pleasant place to play in as there would be too much "What's in it for me."

However, it is absolutely not selfish to say someone in a flashpoint needing on a piece of gear for themselves needs it more than someone else needing for a companion.

The reason it's selfish is because you're assuming everyone plays with the same goals in mind: operations. That's a fine goal, but should someone who doesn't care to run ops just not play?

The extension of your argument is that someone who raids should get priority on loot over someone who doesn't. Since not raiding is your reason for denying companion's loot.

You also didn't respond to the point I tried to make earlier. There are many many ways to gear up your companions that are better than a pug HM FP. Choosing to run a pug to gear up your companion is the selfish part.

The problem here is that if we stop running FPs once our mains are set, eventually there would be nobody left running FPs. If gearing companions becomes the driving force, allowing the queue to remain moderately useful, it's better than having nobody to play with at all.

Rolling on some loot is better than not ever seeing the loot.

I had addressed this earlier in the thread, I was not ignoring that part of your statement.

The problem here is that if we stop running FPs once our mains are set, eventually there would be nobody left running FPs. If gearing companions becomes the driving force, allowing the queue to remain moderately useful, it's better than having nobody to play with at all.

 

Rolling on some loot is better than not ever seeing the loot.

I suppose that is possible.

But I have used the group finder on 3 different level 50 alts many many many times since 1.3 dropped. Those that already had gear were running the HM FP for the Black Hole comm rewards to help their end-game content, not to gear up companions. So I don't think the situation you're describing would come to pass.

I believe we're talking in circles at this point. I somehow feel that you're arguing an abstract point of principle, and I know I won't convince you to change your mind.

But I will continue to respond to this thread as I want people who are on the fence on this subject to adopt a more generous attitude towards loot.

To reiterate my opinion:

Greed should be applied to almost every loot roll, so everyone has a fair chance of getting the loot. Unless someone can use the gear in question as a direct upgrade to their main currently being played. That should be the only exception and is what the Need button is for.

I somehow feel that you're arguing an abstract point of principle, and I know I won't convince you to change your mind.

I am. I mentioned this early on.

There will always be those who just never reach the top of the gear chain, and they'll still be running FPs, so you're right in that someone will always be lfg. But once you have made it, what's left? Quit?

Fleet's general chat is only fun for so long.. and you can only roll so many alts.

I often pass gear for those that need it, all I'm saying is that it shouldn't be forbidden to have alternate goals.

There are many many ways to gear up your companions that are better than a pug HM FP. Choosing to run a pug to gear up your companion is the selfish part.

Not to mention with the added coms you get from the dailys and weeklys from the terminal in the fleet to get tionese/columi, the daily coms from group finder, the coms from the weekly BH area. its enough to gear your companion pretty good right there. I wont add in the operations or special rakghool weekly in the following. I will just stick with the picks which deal with HM fps minus LI in general.

[Fleet Terminal Daily] Galactic Conflicts – 6 Columi, 7 Tionese

[Fleet Terminal Weekly] Galactic Conflicts – 10 Columi, 20 Tionese

[Group finder Daily] - 6 Black Hole

[black hole Weekly] - 6 Black Hole

[Completion of HM FP] - 1 Tionese

Daily total - 6 Columi, 8 Tionese, 6 Black hole

Weekly Total - 16 Columi, 24 Tionese, 24 Black hole

ONLY Doing 1 HM FP a day for 5 days straight would grant you: 36 Black Hole, 30 Columi, 60 Tionese

Why you would not be able to gear yourself up from needing on upgrades and only greeding for your companions is just beyond my understanding.

The reason it's selfish is because you're assuming everyone plays with the same goals in mind: operations. That's a fine goal, but should someone who doesn't care to run ops just not play?

 

The extension of your argument is that someone who raids should get priority on loot over someone who doesn't. Since not raiding is your reason for denying companion's loot.

Your assuming that i am assuming would be completely wrong in so many ways. If you were to notice what my current gear is, I do not have 1 single peice of raiding gear. 0, ZERO, NIL because I do not have the time to. The extension of my argument is that someone like myself which groups with players who need for companions without the consideration of others. The extension of my argument is that the HM's which i have run multiple times to only see the columi peice drop 5-6 times in a row for others and then the 1 run where it finally does drop as an upgrade for myself, some D-Bag decides to Need it for their companion KNOWING dam well i need it for an upgrade for myself because i stated it at the beginning of the run. I can tell you first hand having this done to myself MULTIPLE times, you tend to get pretty pissed off at those individuals who do need for their companions without asking the group if they need the gear first. I have geared myself strictly threw HM FP's, Dailys, and purchasing mods from the GTN.

The problem here is that if we stop running FPs once our mains are set, eventually there would be nobody left running FPs. If gearing companions becomes the driving force, allowing the queue to remain moderately useful, it's better than having nobody to play with at all.

Wrong on so many levels yet again. Who said anything about to stop running FP's once your main is set? Do you not relize you can strip mods out of gear and send those mods to your alts? Don't you have other alts which you gear up threw HM's also?

There will always be those who just never reach the top of the gear chain, and they'll still be running FPs, so you're right in that someone will always be lfg. But once you have made it, what's left? Quit?

 

Fleet's general chat is only fun for so long.. and you can only roll so many alts.

 

I often pass gear for those that need it, all I'm saying is that it shouldn't be forbidden to have alternate goals.

Yes, like myself. I doubt i will ever reach the top of the gear chain and i still run FP's to this day even though my shadow is more or less geared top end for what I can reach without running ops. No, I will not quit because I do have alts to gear at the same time. I am hardly ever in the fleet because the chat in there is just meh... so when i am not running FP's or doing dailys, i am helping guildies with what they are needing help with. Yes, it should be forbidden to have alternate goals if its at someone elses expense.

This is what vote-kicking is for.

This^^^

I have had this happen many time before and if I just tell them to stop. It works most of the time but if they continue, I usually whisper to another player and explain the problem and more often than not that person will back me up when I set-up a vote kick.

Also it's rare for me to wait very long for group finder to find a replacement or just jumping into a group. I'm a Tank and on Drooga's Pleasure Barge. Does my server or character class have an effect on group finder???

Problem is with that, especially on the amount of small servers this thing has, it can be hours before a replacement comes along. I am not over exaggerating that figure.

What server are you playing on that it can take hours to get a replacement?! I've yet to get stuck in the queue for longer than 20 minutes since server mergers.

Yes, it should be forbidden to have alternate goals if its at someone elses expense.

So you're saying you should get gear at the expense of someone else, but they shouldn't do so at your expense? Sounds reasonable in 'so many ways' or on 'so many levels'...

You have bad luck if you see something drop 'MULTIPLE' times, and lose the roll each time.. this is unfortunate for you.

Damn those d-bags for needing against you on loot they helped you earn. Afterall, they helped you earn it! They most certainly did not earn it for some fair and unbiased, yet heartless system of group loot distribution!

Canderous Ordo during peak hours:

DPS - 45-1 hour wait time

Tank - Less than 1 minute

Healer - 1-10 minute

So you're saying you should get gear at the expense of someone else, but they shouldn't do so at your expense? Sounds reasonable in 'so many ways' or on 'so many levels'...

 

You have bad luck if you see something drop 'MULTIPLE' times, and lose the roll each time.. this is unfortunate for you.

 

Damn those d-bags for needing against you on loot they helped you earn. Afterall, they helped you earn it! They most certainly did not earn it for some fair and unbiased, yet heartless system of group loot distribution!

No. Obviously you missed what i said or trying to read between the lines.

What I said was the Players which need a peice of gear as an upgrade for themselves should get Priority over those players which are needing for a companion... So please tell me, where is that companion that helped me earn that piece of gear? Those Players helped the group earn that piece of gear, not some companion. If you are planning on needing on a piece of gear for your companion, have the common courtesy to ask the team before just needing on it.

I can assume that you do some raiding so how would it make you feel if you were in HM EC and that piece of campaign gear you had been after for 2 weeks finally dropped and someone else won the need roll only to find out they were equipping it on their companion?

Yes, i agree that it is unfortunate too complete a run multiple times only to have other gear drop but that's RNG for you.

So you're saying you should get gear at the expense of someone else, but they shouldn't do so at your expense? Sounds reasonable in 'so many ways' or on 'so many levels'...

 

You have bad luck if you see something drop 'MULTIPLE' times, and lose the roll each time.. this is unfortunate for you.

 

Damn those d-bags for needing against you on loot they helped you earn. Afterall, they helped you earn it! They most certainly did not earn it for some fair and unbiased, yet heartless system of group loot distribution!

You're responding to haliy's post about it being forbidden. Nothing should be forbidden. Play however you want to play.

But if you need for a companion in a pug HMFP when someone else could use it on their main, it's bad manners. It's the difference between letting someone in your lane during rush hour or speeding up and blocking them so they have to slow down and cut in behind you.