It's trivial to dodge these things under normal circumstances, as they are stationary and can't fire through obstacles.

 

 

Turrets you can even evasion the shots from, which is just another thing that distortion shield gets for whatever reason, but the others you won't normally take unless someone stealths one down when you are swarmed (aka, team play).

 

In the current game, absolutely. If RNG were to be removed though? Maybe its me but I'd have issues with stuff that requires no aiming to use in such an environment.

If this game had a single AI, I would likely have a different opinion.

 

But a mine isn't an AI. It's a trigger. If you got shot by a mine, it's because your opponent put it there and you didn't see it (he outplayed you) or you decided to take the mine to get something done (you refused to be denied the area by the area denial), or you gambled that you wouldn't get that close to the mine (you misplayed).

 

A railgun drone is the same thing. It doesn't pick weaker targets, it doesn't predict if one target will stay in range, or fly out of line of sight. It will acquire the first target that is valid and shoot at it until it cannot. That is 100% predictable.

 

EVERYTHING is like this. If you get hit by a railgun drone, it's because your opponent put it there and you didn't see it (he outplayed you), or you decided to take the hit to get something done (you refused to be denied the area), or you gambled that you would be able to kill it or go LOS in time (you misplayed).

 

 

Certainly, these things can be hard to find in a large enough environment- you can be outplayed by a bomber pilot with relative ease if you are busy dodging half their team, just by him putting it in range and you not leaving range before it flies into position, acquires you, and charges a shot.

 

 

 

Anyway, the mines barely use RNG and the drones don't use it at all. Can any drone even crit? None of them can miss, that's for sure. The mine/drone game is entirely played betwixt YOU, the would be target, and the bomber, the would be attacker. There's no AI in that. These are state machines and entirely predictable.

Apparently in the New York Cantina party, a podcast got a dev to say there was a "multi-phase plan to revitalize GSF", and that the 3.0 changes to requisition gain are the first phase.

 

There was also mention (in regard to queue times for PvP in general) that they are working on something "better than cross-server queues".

 

Devs, if you have a multi-phase plan, I sure would love to hear it here, so we can provide feedback. I've already had a guildie abandon the game because of the lack of GSF news for 3.0. Even just knowing the basics of a plan, with the knowledge that that plan might change, would help ease some minds and extend some patience.

 

Rest of you, what could be "better than cross-server queues"?

 

GSF overly rewards it regulars with 1 shot kill and next to impossible to kill status against players. Short of realizing this is an add-on feature that shouldn't be giving god-mode to its dedicated players I don't know why anyone would play a bad twitch star fighter with such a long gating time to build a simple ship that isn't useless cannon fodder in matches. Look I can enter a match. Look at the ships on the teams and tell you in 5 seconds who is going to win. I do entirely suck at it. Mostly because I won't ever have 1 maxed out ship. Let alone these guys with max stats and skills on every ship. Ur .5 second Missle Lock overpower guns against my paper ship. I pew pew and miss cause I don't have a huge gun hit radius and you kill my ship in 2 seconds.

 

Its stupid. I get some advantages for playing a lot but its absurd. This isn't about mechanics either. You can see it even against bad ships or watching geared players on your team face roll a ship. I only play for the fleet coms cause I am a decoration junkie. U want people to play don't give me a watergun in a bazooka fight. Also people want joysticks.

GSF overly rewards it regulars with 1 shot kill

 

This is not a reward. If you are being one shot, it means you do not have the situational awareness- there are entire other shots hitting you, or, rarely, an enemy with damage overcharge might crit you or something. If you don't know exactly what happened, you lack understanding of the game.

 

 

Solution: You need to practice. You know nothing about GSF.

Systemic Solution: A combat log.

 

and next to impossible to kill status against players.

 

This is not a feature of gear. The big defensive gains from upgrades is a distortion field missile break (13,500 req) on some ships, and a cooldown reduction on your engine maneuver (3,500 req). The extra shielding and health and evasion are all small potatoes compared to these, but the bigger issue is, the defensibility of mastered ships is not that much higher than stock ships, and is identical to ships with only about 20% of requisition earned.

 

Solution: You need to practice. You know nothing about GSF.

Systemic Solution: Some of the upgrades could be a bit easier. The new req thing announced recently will probably help.

 

 

Short of realizing this is an add-on feature that shouldn't be giving god-mode to its dedicated players

 

It does not. The damage output from stock to mastered doesn't even double, and from a 30% mastered ship to a mastered ship is less than 15%, roughly. There is no god mode ship, or gear, only skill.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=755330

 

 

Here's a stock ship. If you can't perform at least 25% as well as this on a stock ship, it's fair to say you have no idea what you are talking about:

http://puu.sh/aEefs/172f519c15.jpg

 

 

I don't know why anyone would play a bad twitch star fighter with such a long gating time to build a simple ship that isn't useless cannon fodder in matches.

 

See previous threads with 30k to 100k and total carry in stock ships. Also note that the gating time is being substantially reduced, and is a barrier to entry now, but not a truly burdensome one.

 

Look I can enter a match. Look at the ships on the teams and tell you in 5 seconds who is going to win.

 

Yes, of course. Because the guys with 5 ships have played hundreds (or thousands) of games, and the two shippers have played a couple dozen. The issue isn't the ships, though. But you tell yourself that, because you don't want to understand the magnitude of skill difference.

 

I do entirely suck at it. Mostly because I won't ever have 1 maxed out ship.

 

Please see above thread with entirely stock ships. Note that entirely stock ships really are pretty weak, but while mastering a ship takes 150,000 requisition, it only takes 45,000 requisition to have a ship with distortion missile break, reduced turning cooldown, and half of the value that you will get out of fully upgrading your weapons. Still too much? Not happy getting 75% of the payback with 30% of the cost? For a mere 10k you can have the faster missile break and a few of the talent points. The 15,000 talent point helps you just a spot more than the 1,000 talent point, so, you know, for 7% of a mastered ship you can gain much more than 7% of the power.

 

But again, those numbers are in stock ships. If you can't do something even a fraction as good as that, you don't really have the requisite knowledge to start talking about how gear dependent something is or is not.

 

 

It's been said many times: Why do the people with neither skill nor gear show up on the forums claiming to know about the relative impact of both?

 

Ur .5 second Missle Lock overpower guns against my paper ship.

 

There is one upgrade for each missile that reduces the missile lock. It reduces it by 15% or so. The upgrade costs 1000 requisition on most missiles, and it costs 2500 on the others. A four second proton lock becomes around 3.7 seconds instead. There is no .5 second missile lock.

 

Here is what happened to you, it is one of these:

 

1)- You have no idea how time passes when you are under pressure, so a missile lock is not noticed until it fires. The 1.8 second cluster lock seems thrice as fast to you.

2)- You flew near a missile drone, and it began launching missiles at you. You don't press tab, or know what a missile drone is, or use your mouse look to see them with your eyes, so you assume that someone exists that you do not see, and is shooting missiles at you with a fast lockon, based on upgrades you've never looked up, in a game you don't play. But you're the expert, I'm sure.

3)- You flew near a seeker mine, or had one dropped on you. The lockon is instant, if you are too close to a mine, but the seeker has a flight time, unlike the other (instant damage) mines.

 

 

No one here is impressed by your claims of 0.5 second lockon times in mastered ships, because we have mastered ships, and our missile times haven't improved since the tier 1 or tier 2 upgrade on each one. Nothing is like that. Your reality, in your head, is entirely removed from the actual game.

 

 

I pew pew and miss cause I don't have a huge gun hit radius and you kill my ship in 2 seconds.

 

Fraps it. I bet you anything that you aren't aiming properly. Youtube your leet gunnery skills for us. After all, you "miss cause you don't have a huge gun hit radius", whatever the heck that even means.

 

Its stupid. I get some advantages for playing a lot but its absurd. This isn't about mechanics either. You can see it even against bad ships or watching geared players on your team face roll a ship.

 

See above thread for ungeared players rolling everything (most of those games are solo queue, if that's your next thing that your cognitive dissonance over your lack of skill in a game you've never practiced will drive you to). The counterpart of that- geared players getting rolled- is something you can see, but no one is going to be making screenshots of that.

 

I only play for the fleet coms cause I am a decoration junkie.

 

Keep playing and maybe you'll know what you are talking about. Read the Stasiepedia:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=729222

And watch some twitches and videos:

http://www.twitch.tv/drakolich

 

 

U want people to play don't give me a watergun in a bazooka fight.

 

Stock cannons are not THAT much less powerful than mastered ones.

Lets do Quad lasers:

Tier 1 upgrade: Rate of fire increased by 8%.

Tier 2 upgrade: Blaster range increased by 5%

Tier 3 upgrade: Blaster damage increased by 5%

Tier 4 upgrade: Crit chance increased by 8%

Tier 5 upgrade: Choose between 16% hull damage or 18% shield damage.

 

So, pretending that range is about equal to damage boost, and haste applies straight away, and that the final tier is worth about 9% total extra damage on average, we have:

1.08 x 1.05 x 1.05 x 1.04 x 1.09 = 1.35

 

A fully upgraded quad laser is then 35% better than stock.

 

 

Is that one shotting you? Is your stock gun a water gun compared to that?

 

But wait, why would you fly a stock ship? I mean, the full tree here costs 33,500 req, which is a lot, but what does a partial upgrade look like? If you've earned just 3500, the mastered gun is only 20% better. If you earned 8500, the mastered gun is only 13% better. Those are small values- you could easily earn them in one play session.

 

 

Is that value too high? Probably not. But if it was, it's not outside the realm of understanding. It's not double damage, or half second lockons, or one shots. At best, the fully mastered gun is 35% better, meaning that every four of your shots are as damaging as every three of his, roughly. Is that what you are seeing? That, for instance, you almost kill these fully geared players, you get them red and smoking, but their gear was just better than yours by that little bit so they had four hundred hull left and no shields when you died?

 

That's what getting geared down looks like, in most of the fights in this game. But I bet you just get waxed, a dog driving a motorcycle in the rain.

 

 

 

Also people want joysticks.

 

 

 

Also, joysticks? You want to get farmed HARDER? Who has joysticks? Answer: People like me. I'd love joysticks, but it will never happen. The game was designed with the reticule instead. But rest assured, joystick support would make the game very casual unfriendly, with all the aces, who already play vastly better, now having a great input support mechanism that the typical SWTOR player does not.

Edited October 16, 2014 by Verain

Salutations.

 

I unfortunately haven't been on much lately (RL happened, and when I am on my regular flying partners haven't been either, sadly), but I have to say that from a purely personal perspective, the best that could be done to revitalize GSF is new game modes.

 

Just 2 game modes gets very repetitive very quickly, and just 1 more (or, heaven forbid, 2) would go a long way towards adding some excellent variety to the gameplay.

 

Naturally, more maps would be helpful as well. Game modes and maps, I'd pay good money for that.

 

Itkovian

Salutations.

 

I unfortunately haven't been on much lately (RL happened, and when I am on my regular flying partners haven't been either, sadly), but I have to say that from a purely personal perspective, the best that could be done to revitalize GSF is new game modes.

 

Just 2 game modes gets very repetitive very quickly, and just 1 more (or, heaven forbid, 2) would go a long way towards adding some excellent variety to the gameplay.

 

Naturally, more maps would be helpful as well. Game modes and maps, I'd pay good money for that.

 

Itkovian

 

Yeah... I think maps and map types are the main thing that would keep me going at this point. Ground PVP isn't quite as repetitive since it now has a bit more variety (though I'm hardly going to complain about more to do there, either).

 

Sure, the bugs need work and there needs to be some actual work put into power tweaks, but those would hopefully happen if more maps were being invested in.

A big meta shiftup would certainly not be unappreciated. I'm getting super bored of evasion stacking. Edited October 18, 2014 by LilSaihah

A big meta shiftup would certainly not be unappreciated. I'm getting super bored of evasion stacking.

 

yeah I think it got old for me during early access. At least we don't have scouts being invincible turrets any more.

I'll gladly give up my scout's base evasion if I get a notification sound as soon as a gunship charges it's rail when looking in my direction and the base accuracy of the railgun will be tuned down, also gunships should be visible when 15km or closer anytime and not only when they already have fired a shot. Edited October 19, 2014 by Danalon

@Danalon All of those are bad ideas, so we'll see none of them. Edited October 19, 2014 by Verain

@Danalon All of those are bad ideas, so we'll see none of them.

 

non sequitur

gunships should be visible when 15km or closer anytime and not only when they already have fired a shot.

 

They already are. The fact that you don't notice them until they fire a shot is, well, kinda your problem.

They already are. The fact that you don't notice them until they fire a shot is, well, kinda your problem.

 

Not really correct. Sensor dampening is very nerfed, but I'm pretty certain it functions. The patch that greatly nerfed sensor dampening seemed to also remove the 15km min detect.

And seriously, "nerf gunships" is not even topical for the whole thread. That's just more dumb class whining.

I vote leave gunships alone, nerf Verain with a baseline 1200ms ping.

 

/thread

Edited October 20, 2014 by zaskar

Not really correct. Sensor dampening is very nerfed, but I'm pretty certain it functions. The patch that greatly nerfed sensor dampening seemed to also remove the 15km min detect.

 

Good point there, I haven't ran into such a situation yet though.

Still, let's examine how much of not seeing the gunship is actually a poor choice of components/crew from the players side (underlined will be the range at which the gunship is visible on sensors):

 

Sensor Dampening

T1 gunship = 4,000m (Dampening Sensors) + 2,000m (crew) = 6,000m

T2 gunship = 1,600m (base) + 4,000m (Dampening Sensors) + 2,000m (crew) = 7,600m

T3 gunship = 2,000m (crew)

 

Sensor ranges

Scouts

T1 scout = 22,500m (base) + 5000m (Range Sensors) + 3,000m (crew) = 30,500m

vs T1 = 30,500 - 6,000 = 24,500m

vs T2 = 30,500 - 7,600 = 22,900m

vs T3 = 30,500 - 2,000 = 28,500m

T2 scout sensor ranges = 17,500m (base) + 3,000m (crew) = 20,500m

vs T1 = 20,500 - 6,000 = 14,500m

vs T2 = 20,500 - 7,600 = 13,900m

vs T3 = 20,500 - 2,000 = 18,500m

T3 scout = 20,500m (base) + 5000m (Range Sensors) + 3,000m (crew) = 28,500m

vs T1 = 28,500 - 6,000 = 22,500m

vs T2 = 28,500 - 7,600 = 20,900m

vs T3 = 28,500 - 2,000 = 26,500m

 

Strike Fighters

T1 and T2 = 18,000m (base) + 3,000m (crew) = 21,000m

vs T1 = 21,000 - 6,000 = 15,000m

vs T2 = 21,000 - 7,600 = 13,400m

vs T3 = 21,000 - 2,000 = 19,000m

T3 = 18,000m (base) + 5000m (Range Sensors) + 3,000m (crew) = 26,000m

vs T1 = 26,000 - 6,000 = 20,000m

vs T2 = 26,000 - 7,600 = 18,400m

vs T3 = 26,000 - 2,000 = 24,000m

 

Bombers

T1 = 20,000m (base) + 5000m (Range Sensors) + 3,000m (crew) = 28,000m

vs T1 = 28,000 - 6,000 = 22,000m

vs T2 = 28,000 - 7,600 = 20,400m

vs T3 = 28,000 - 2,000 = 26,000m

T2 = 18,000m (base) + 5000m (Range Sensors) + 3,000m (crew) = 26,000m

vs T1 = 26,000 - 6,000 = 20,000m

vs T2 = 26,000 - 7,600 = 18,400m

vs T3 = 26,000 - 2,000 = 24,000m

T3 = 18,000m (base) + 3,000m (crew) = 21,000m

vs T1 = 21,000 - 6,000 = 15,000m

vs T2 = 21,000 - 7,600 = 13,400m

vs T3 = 21,000 - 2,000 = 19,000m

 

So, in conclusion: T1 gunship can "hide" only from a T2 scout and that's only by 500m, against T1/T2 strike fighters and T3 bomber it's borderline so let's you can get surprised, a T3 gunship can't hide from anyone and T2 gunship can hide from T2 scout, T1 and T2 strike fighters and T3 bomber, but with the defensive capabilities of the T2 gunship, that's perfectly justifiable IMO.

 

If someone whines that you can lose out with those component/crew choices, you don't lose anything game-breaking, if really required I'll post those too.

 

And seriously, "nerf gunships" is not even topical for the whole thread. That's just more dumb class whining.

 

Doesn't every topic lately turn into SOME-class whining?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Asbetos