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Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
Class Changes: Deception Assassin / Infiltration Shadow
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dead-cat's Avatar


dead-cat
10.11.2017 , 04:05 AM | #181
after a few warzones, i can't say i felt much of a nerf. ball lightning appeared to do a bit less damage indeed, but maybe only because i paid special attention to it.
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Threjyan's Avatar


Threjyan
10.11.2017 , 04:17 AM | #182
Quote: Originally Posted by mrwayn View Post
The answer here is called "alacrity", I'm 99% sure about that. If you stack alacrity realy high (around 15.4%, I think) you'll get an unexpectedly high benefit from it. There is a thread somewhere on the forums talking about the reasons for it, it's mainly aimed at fury marauders, but after reading it, I tried the high-alacrity build on my deception sin. My apm increased by 2-3, damage went from around 9.8k to around 10.2k and yes, I had to use one or two saber strikes aswell, because the energy-regeneration-rate couldn't keep up with the increased apm. Once you reach 30% and can use assassinate it's no longer a problem though.
i think alacrity is beneficial to burst classes - im using high alacrity build on me concealment and am having interesting results, while on lethality not so much
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supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
10.11.2017 , 07:08 AM | #183
Quote: Originally Posted by mrwayn View Post
The answer here is called "alacrity", I'm 99% sure about that. If you stack alacrity realy high (around 15.4%, I think) you'll get an unexpectedly high benefit from it. There is a thread somewhere on the forums talking about the reasons for it, it's mainly aimed at fury marauders, but after reading it, I tried the high-alacrity build on my deception sin. My apm increased by 2-3, damage went from around 9.8k to around 10.2k and yes, I had to use one or two saber strikes aswell, because the energy-regeneration-rate couldn't keep up with the increased apm. Once you reach 30% and can use assassinate it's no longer a problem though.
It could have been that, I thought about it that way too, but it doesn't explain the high crit rate. You gotta lose crit stat in order to have more alacrity, however on this parse, there is no impact on crit, like I said, 75%crit on his assassinate is way over the top to be called a normal parse. Either this guy got really lucky or he spent some times editing his file. :/
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DarksideBuck's Avatar


DarksideBuck
10.11.2017 , 12:52 PM | #184
Well deception was fun while it lasted. looks like the only thing i'll be doing on my sin is tanking. Thankfully I JUST maxed out the tank gear so I don't have to grind.

FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
10.11.2017 , 04:35 PM | #185
Yep. Back to uselessness for Shadow DPS. At least we were somewhat useful while it lasted.
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olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.11.2017 , 04:50 PM | #186
Yep, exploits are fun, AIR?

invertioN's Avatar


invertioN
10.12.2017 , 04:09 AM | #187
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
It could have been that, I thought about it that way too, but it doesn't explain the high crit rate. You gotta lose crit stat in order to have more alacrity, however on this parse, there is no impact on crit, like I said, 75%crit on his assassinate is way over the top to be called a normal parse. Either this guy got really lucky or he spent some times editing his file. :/
Parsing is only luck after u know what to do with the rotation. Nowadays thanks to casual gearing everyone can get bis and show off how pro they are by getting lucky or parsing often
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FlavivsAetivs's Avatar


FlavivsAetivs
10.12.2017 , 05:07 AM | #188
As I've said elsewhere - shadow parses aren't usually representative of the class due to the increased RNG aspect and the much wider margin of error. The 10,500 and 10,700 parses are the exception - most of those parsers regularly did 10,200, which is where Shadow was.

The class was in a great spot, it was exactly where it needed to be. Nerfs over DPS did nothing to affect its viability in PvP (it performs almost the same) but absolutely destroyed its usefulness in PvE.

The changes need to be undone, hands down, end of discussion. The class is worthless, again, because Bioware can't properly balance it (which is true, the class doesn't have an actual rotation so whatever nerfs they do are going to have a slightly greater effect on Shadow Infil/Sin Deception than they would on other classes). Every time they did a serious update to the game (4.0, 5.0) it ends up "OP" (which it's not, it's merely viable, not OP), and every time they "fix it" (which it didn't need to be) it gets nerfed into uselessness.

The Classes without raid utility/raid buffs, IMO, need to be higher parsing than those that do have it in order to create an actual trade off in choice. You can have either a really high-parsing DPS spec or a normal one (which in the case of mara usually ends up high parsing anyways) with a Raid Buff that increases group DPS.

This class would still benefit a lot from undoing the RNG procs and giving it an actual rotation, TBQH. It also still needs the soft position requirement removed.
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Torvai's Avatar


Torvai
10.13.2017 , 01:33 AM | #189
Quote: Originally Posted by FlavivsAetivs View Post
The class was in a great spot, it was exactly where it needed to be. Nerfs over DPS did nothing to affect its viability in PvP (it performs almost the same) but absolutely destroyed its usefulness in PvE.
Just how much of a nerf is it really? I don't play much recently and when I do I'm normally tanking, soo...?

But I doubt it has destroyed our use in PvE. Sure, if you have the choice between deception and any Mara of the same skill, take the mara, but no amount of damage would change that, imo. Mara simply brings too much to the table in a raid to be ignored.
But people said the same about Arsenal, it is useless, destroed, whatever in PvE and they're doing just fine.

Quote:
The Classes without raid utility/raid buffs, IMO, need to be higher parsing than those that do have it in order to create an actual trade off in choice. You can have either a really high-parsing DPS spec or a normal one (which in the case of mara usually ends up high parsing anyways) with a Raid Buff that increases group DPS.
I fully agree.
The problem is, what qualifies as a raid utility and what not? And how do you rank them?
Deception brings some utility: Stealth rezz, being able to offtank quite well, now that we have the ability to frontmaul and thereby maintaining Dark Embrace, a whole lot of cheese with "I don't want to play this mechanic" shroud. Short group DR buff via mass taunt(I know, it's laughable, but it isn't nothing). So, is having the ability to stealth rezz worth more, less or the same than a bloodthirst? Or Predation? It's a tough question to answer and even if you do, not everyone will agree on the ranking anyone would come up with.

Quote:
This class would still benefit a lot from undoing the RNG procs and giving it an actual rotation, TBQH. It also still needs the soft position requirement removed.
I actually like a priority instead of a set in stone rotation, but that's personal preference. And yeah, rng s*cks.

nyrkverse's Avatar


nyrkverse
10.13.2017 , 02:11 AM | #190
about the stealth rez: consider that deception uses force cloak rotationally so that dead group member is going to be waiting a while if they've died at the wrong time. and it's of course a dps loss.

another point for maras, since we're comparing: mobility! slightly lower cd on force charge vs force speed, 30 sec predation (albeit at the cost of 2 utility points for max effect but deception assassins have to spend 3 utility points for damage so...), 45 seconds mad dash and in a pinch force camo can also help you move a little quicker.

assassins have force speed and phantom stride, which is however used rotationally in deception. there's a speed buff attached to ball lighting (masterful utility point) but it's a proc so you can't exactly rely on having it when you need it. (and delaying ball lighting to make sure would be a profoundly bad idea in case somebody's wondering, straight dps loss and messes up all priorities)

Phasewalk (which needed to be set up beforehand) is of course gone ("we felt assassins were a little too mobile".... ) and before somebody says "you can stealth and move unseen": 1) this is in pve boss fights 2) force cloak is used rotationally for best damage and resource management in pve
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