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KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Shadow / Assassin
KBN's Stress-Free Guide to the Tank Rotation
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 12:07 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
4% Damage Reduction increase = ~7% DR
Blackout on the other Hand is just a normal 25% DR
I didn't read the skill tree close enough. If it isn't additive, then yeah, that makes it much less attractive.

Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
Because of that and the reapplytime of Force Lightning, the standard build is superior on average (tough not so much anymore after 2.5.2). The 11 deception hybrid is just slightly superior if you
1. have a permanent 5% damage reduction on the Boss
2. are able to use Vanish on cooldown more or less
3. have a better rotation then 100% Dark Protection stack uptime
3. is an unobtainable point, unfortunately. Unless there's something wrong with my math, there is simply no way to guarantee 100% stack uptime (even with perfect play!) if you don't have Wither.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
01.24.2014 , 12:48 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I didn't read the skill tree close enough. If it isn't additive, then yeah, that makes it much less attractive.


3. is an unobtainable point, unfortunately. Unless there's something wrong with my math, there is simply no way to guarantee 100% stack uptime (even with perfect play!) if you don't have Wither.
I meant that you have to be better with the hybrid build then you have to be with the standard spec.
If you are just able to refresh Dark Protection a millisecond before it runs out in the wither spec, that's not enough to run the hybrid and to get a good significant uptime of Dark Protection there.

What i wanted to say is, that the hybrid is not allowing any mistakes in Rotation as even 1 single gcd missed = 1 gcd less with Dark Protection up. Therefore the hybrid requires a lot more skill actually .

Edit:
The only boss i use a 33/11/2 build sometimes is nefra, it's the only boss that fulfills all the requirements if ithere's someone with the 5% damage reduction buff (no movement, no stealth rez possible, you get all the time damage and can (and should) vanish on cooldown, no Need for aoe threat....).

I tested both specs intensively on nefra 16 man hm with 1-4 healers and compared the damage profiles i took. Because of rng you can't really see differences in the logs tough, still the hybrid should take slightly less damage overall.
On the other hand the wither build is so insanely easy to play on nefra, while it's easy to do mistakes with the hybrid.
Zahik - NoID - The Red Eclipse

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 12:55 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
I meant that you have to better with the hybrid then you need to be with the standard spec.
If you are just able to refresh Dark Protection a millisecond before it runs out in the wither spec, that's not enough to run the hybrid and to get a significant uptime of Dark Protection there.

What i wanted to say is, that the hybrid is not allowing any mistakes in Rotation as even 1 single gcd missed = 1 gcd less with Dark Protection up.
Ah, yes I see what you mean. That's very true. Wither spec has so much give in it these days. It allows me to do some things that would normally be considered really silly, like sitting on 3 stacks of HD and running around kiting the boss (e.g. NiM Thrasher), delaying my channel until the stacks are a split second from dropping off.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
01.24.2014 , 01:43 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
I didn't read the skill tree close enough. If it isn't additive, then yeah, that makes it much less attractive.
I was pretty sure it was additive. Just logged in quick to check and my DR goes from 34.13(no laughing I said it was an old toon!) to 38.13.
Bonkurz

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 01:44 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by ML_DoubleTap View Post
I was pretty sure it was additive. Just logged in quick to check and my DR goes from 34.13(no laughing I said it was an old toon!) to 38.13.
Shadow Protection is additive. Blackout isn't though.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

ML_DoubleTap's Avatar


ML_DoubleTap
01.24.2014 , 04:11 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by Elfa View Post
Keyboard, do you have a guide like this for Powertech tanking?
Not sure if you're following this guide still since you were looking for a PT one..but, if you are, check out this recently posted guide on SWTORBoard
Bonkurz

vVvCheese's Avatar


vVvCheese
01.24.2014 , 04:59 PM | #27
Minor nitpick, and I know this is not for top level 'sin/Shadows so I'm not hitting the wasted 3 Recklessness/Force Potency:

If you are procing defensive force regen, you should always be thrashing before a force lightning if your stacks wont fall off, which is nearly every cycle (especially those rotations without discharge) or if you know an attack wont hit you during the time before you finish your channel, so that you start with an energized shock (I really should know the Shadow names for these considering I have one...) rather than a regular shock.

Otherwise, the static rotation to keep Protection maxed is good. Hopefully the general Sin/Shadow population learns to maintain them so people can find some more neat tricks.
Tenebras/Simulara
I've cleared all the content, probably before you.
Now I just PvP, and probably farm you.

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
01.24.2014 , 05:01 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by vVvCheese View Post
If you are procing defensive force regen, you should always be thrashing before a force lightning if your stacks wont fall off, which is nearly every cycle (especially those rotations without discharge) or if you know an attack wont hit you during the time before you finish your channel, so that you start with an energized shock (I really should know the Shadow names for these considering I have one...) rather than a regular shock.
The shadow name is pretty lame: accelerated project. Just say energized shock; we all know what you mean. :-)

Using gcd4 on Thrash (or Maul) is definitely a good idea, not just for the extra Particle Acceleration/Energize proc, but also because it allows you to open the next block with Project/Shock rather than Slow Time/Wither.

Regarding the triple Recklessness/Force Potency, see the note in my article addressed specifically to you. :-) It's a noticeable DPS gain to do what you recommend, but you have to play with fire on your stacks to pull it off since you need both gcd4 and gcd5. On top of that, it's a bit RNG-dependent. I think it's something I would do if the enrage timer on a fight was tight enough that 12-17 DPS would make a difference, but it's just not worth the effort or risk in most cases.
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dilettante on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (retired sentinel) Nimri (ruffian scoundrel)
Averith (marksman sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (vengeance jugg) Effek (pyro pt)

December 13, 2011 to January 30, 2017

vVvCheese's Avatar


vVvCheese
01.24.2014 , 05:29 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by KeyboardNinja View Post
The shadow name is pretty lame: accelerated project. Just say energized shock; we all know what you mean. :-)

Using gcd4 on Thrash (or Maul) is definitely a good idea, not just for the extra Particle Acceleration/Energize proc, but also because it allows you to open the next block with Project/Shock rather than Slow Time/Wither.

Regarding the triple Recklessness/Force Potency, see the note in my article addressed specifically to you. :-) It's a noticeable DPS gain to do what you recommend, but you have to play with fire on your stacks to pull it off since you need both gcd4 and gcd5. On top of that, it's a bit RNG-dependent. I think it's something I would do if the enrage timer on a fight was tight enough that 12-17 DPS would make a difference, but it's just not worth the effort or risk in most cases.
That's why I didn't discuss it, though this simple rotation actually does allow for the double proc if you get a proc off the thrash/maul before FL and have already triggered it on the previous run through. Also, I would thrash over maul even with a proc immediately preceding FL since you have a 49% chance to trigger shock opposed to the 30% a maul grants (conceding you get more DPS out of mauling). Just makes stack maintainance easier, and I usually do that during farm since I tab out and such.

Anywayyyyyy, beyond the scope of this thread. Good stuff.
Tenebras/Simulara
I've cleared all the content, probably before you.
Now I just PvP, and probably farm you.

NickAlexander's Avatar


NickAlexander
02.01.2014 , 12:56 AM | #30
It's a bit unhinging to hear about assassin/shadow rotation about tanking. Powertech/Vanguard tanks have rotation, shadow/assassin don't.

First and mostly - this is a class with no diminishing returns in resource so the below X force should be ignored.

Main agro generators:
Slow Time/Wither
Force Breach/Discharge

Secondary agro generator:
Project/Shock

These should be used on cooldown if DPS are on the target you are attacking, especially on aoe tanking.

Priority for procs:

Particle acceleration/Energize should be used as priority before Shadow Wrap/Conspirator's Cloak since Shadow strike/Moul could proc Shadow Wrap/ Conspirator's Cloak.

Shadow/Assassin tanks should always engage a fight with an absorb adrenal,

Force Pull should be used if possible upon tank switch, pulling a boss and/or add targets so that a taunt can be used for mechanics control.

Telekinetic Throw/Force lightning should be used on cooldown if there are 3 stacks of Harnessed Shadows/Harnessed Darkness and if you have less than 4 stacks of shadow protection/dark protection it should be used if you're not expected to move.

If DPS are burning down on the above, and if tactics allow it, target should be taunted/aoe taunted prior to Telekinetic Throw/Lightning Strike

Most fights have high damage attacks - they should be reseliesed.
"Luke, at that speed do you think you'll be able to pull out in time?"
- Epic Fail...