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i fail to see the reason.


mrwayn's Avatar


mrwayn
10.06.2017 , 09:20 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by supertimtaf View Post
As for dot, I will believe you, however, I've seen multiples times stack build whenever I was hit by a shadow's lacerate, or a sniper's orbital strike... Although, it may be only for the initial hit (or for any specific proc like Ataru Strike)... I'll test this out !
If the lacerate comes from a deception sin, then surging-charge will trigger trauma regs if it procs. For the same reason you sometimes get a "reflected" when lacerating a merc with his reflect up. Also, some dots like crushing darkness or the vengeance dots have an initial hit that will be reflected/trigger trauma regs, but the actual dot won't.
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supertimtaf's Avatar


supertimtaf
10.06.2017 , 11:27 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by mrwayn View Post
If the lacerate comes from a deception sin, then surging-charge will trigger trauma regs if it procs. For the same reason you sometimes get a "reflected" when lacerating a merc with his reflect up.
Well this is dumb, and don't really make things easier for us. It also explain why sweeping slash generates stack on a merc due to Ataru Form.
And yeah, I just saw it for Demolish and Shatter, the initial hit does trigger the stack (which is normal, the ability are made this way, with an initial hit followed by an actual dot if the attack reach its target).
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Sabachthanus's Avatar


Sabachthanus
10.06.2017 , 01:32 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
If a merc is low enough health to need to use trauma regulators or the reflect skill, and players use skill and dont attack, then the merc receives little to no heals from those skills, and will be forced to either heal themselves (therefore do no damage output and build up their hrat fast), OR use kolto overload WITH one of those skills and therefore waste one of them and only heal up to 70%, leaving them with no more dcds.

The opponents dictate how well those skills work. Same thing with many other skills that other classes have, like using CC on a sin with shroud up or a sniper with entrench up, etc.
The problem with this is that the merc - if he is any good - will pop Energy Shield proactively when whitebarred, or has a breaker up. If you aren't able to cc him, he will be freecasting while you can't hit him without healing him. If you try to burst through it, he will click the buff off for the instaheals. It's also very difficult - at least in most 8v8's , given latency, channels, and all - to ensure no-one hits a merc when reflect is popped. Even with the damage nerfs to merc, many classes will have trouble eating freecast damage while doing little damage of your own. And even then, the merc still has a heal-to-70%. That's more defensives than some tank classes.
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olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.06.2017 , 05:47 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Sabachthanus View Post
The problem with this is that the merc - if he is any good - will pop Energy Shield proactively when whitebarred, or has a breaker up. If you aren't able to cc him, he will be freecasting while you can't hit him without healing him. If you try to burst through it, he will click the buff off for the instaheals. It's also very difficult - at least in most 8v8's , given latency, channels, and all - to ensure no-one hits a merc when reflect is popped. Even with the damage nerfs to merc, many classes will have trouble eating freecast damage while doing little damage of your own. And even then, the merc still has a heal-to-70%. That's more defensives than some tank classes.
You cant control what anyone else on your team does anyways, so its part of the mechanics tgat needs to be followed. No different than a trammate not attacking someone capping a node, using a non aoe attack around cc'd players, etc. At some point BW has to leave it in the players hands - more specifically - all the players hands.

HanSollo's Avatar


HanSollo
10.08.2017 , 11:40 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by hyuganejji View Post
I have been playing Swtor since it came out and am a pretty big fan of the game, But something has been bothering me for a while now and i just cant understand why, no matter how much i think about it.

During the big 5.0 patch they changed some big things with the classes/adv classes and this one is by far the one that bugs me the most.

I'm having difficulties understanding their reasoning behind making Force Lightning, Crushing Darkness & Phase Walk, sorcerer exclusive. it makes little sense to me, these skills, at least to me, is among the reasons why the assassin was interesting and fun to play because those skills made a lot more versatile.. Now it just seem like a straight up hack n' slasher like the Marauder, i mean, if you wanted to take a fun adv class and make it so standard and bland you succeded... i just think it's sad
What they are doing is clearly defining the role and feel of each class. Not to mention making the class more palatable from a logical perspective.

Shadow is supposed to be a sneaky guy that uses fast hard hits to take out the enemy. Why the hell is he standing there for 3 seconds casting? It makes no sense.

There are some exceptions like Force lift which can't be instant due to balance issues or thematic abilities like cascading debris.

With the Last Jedi coming out in 2 months they are trying to balance the classes and merge the servers so when they get an influx of new people they can retain some of them.

Sabachthanus's Avatar


Sabachthanus
10.08.2017 , 12:41 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
You cant control what anyone else on your team does anyways, so its part of the mechanics tgat needs to be followed. No different than a trammate not attacking someone capping a node, using a non aoe attack around cc'd players, etc. At some point BW has to leave it in the players hands - more specifically - all the players hands.
True.
However, the point is that a good merc can still force 12 sec of target switch with energy shield, and 5(?) with reflect, and at some point he will be freecasting while untouchable. Soft cc's last 8 sec (and basically assume DoT classes aren't present), hards last four - only just equal to the full duration of Energy shield, and using both will completely fill the resolve bar. No other class can do that while freecasting. Sniper can be burst through. Sorc bubble is channeled. Juggernaut/PT defensives are a joke. Operative/Assassins can stealth out and heal to full, but this mandates no aggressive action. Maras can go for maaaybe 12 secs with Obfuscate w/utility and Undying Rage w/utility, and even then it's damage resistance, not heals + damage resistance.

No other class in the game has such defensives while maintaining high offensive potential.
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olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.08.2017 , 03:55 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Sabachthanus View Post
True.
However, the point is that a good merc can still force 12 sec of target switch with energy shield, and 5(?) with reflect, and at some point he will be freecasting while untouchable. Soft cc's last 8 sec (and basically assume DoT classes aren't present), hards last four - only just equal to the full duration of Energy shield, and using both will completely fill the resolve bar. No other class can do that while freecasting. Sniper can be burst through. Sorc bubble is channeled. Juggernaut/PT defensives are a joke. Operative/Assassins can stealth out and heal to full, but this mandates no aggressive action. Maras can go for maaaybe 12 secs with Obfuscate w/utility and Undying Rage w/utility, and even then it's damage resistance, not heals + damage resistance.

No other class in the game has such defensives while maintaining high offensive potential.
By no means do I think classes are balanced right now, but you can literally go thru each class and find some aspect of their skillset that gives them an advantage that no other class has. Will it be exactly the same as what a merc is capable of? No. Are there areas of pvp where those other classes have a huge advantage? Yes. It isnt ever going to be completely balanced for pvp, and for every possible situation either.

That said, as mentioned before, if the merc is casting energy shield, they are likely low on health and will spend the time casting heals instead of dpsing. If they proactively cast ES, then your team likely didnt waste any dps attacking the merc, so dps likely would've caused another opponent to use their dcd as well. If thats the case, your team has an attritional advantage because both opponents will be left vulnerable without their dcds.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
10.31.2017 , 12:57 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Your opinion.


Again, your opinion. What is fact is that if they dont make a standard crafting system for equal chance to make the gear, it can create an imbalance, which causes more problems. As for decorative crafting, perhaps they dont see enough people really interested in that part of the game, per metrics. So while those changes might be something you would like to see, perhaps you are the minority.


People asked for open world PvP, and BW gave it. If people wanted it so badly, they should be there. Obviously it wasnt wanted as badly as advertised by the playerbase, or it would be thriving. BW has never made SWTOR about forcing people to participate in open world pvp, so why would you expect it to change now. This issue you present is player created, not BW created. They provided, the players just choose not to participate en masse.


It appears to me they are actively trying to re-balance classes.

Again, your opinion. What is fact is that if they dont make a standard crafting system for equal chance to make the gear, it can create an imbalance, which causes more problems. As for decorative crafting, perhaps they dont see enough people really interested in that part of the game, per metrics. So while those changes might be something you would like to see, perhaps you are the minority. All do respect that's your opinion which is not backed up by other mmo's that have actual crafting. You can google it best crafting will display a bunch of mmo's of which Star wars galaxies a dead game makes the list yet no SWTOR. Simply put because it's not crafting and if you've never crafted items you just won't get it. Most of the people i play with agree Bioware's so called crafting is sub-par to other mmo's crafting. Further more, if you are the one implementing it you could with a little forethought minimize any imbalance your'e just providing excuses for bioware to keep the status quo it's players like yourself that settle for sub-par instead of demanding we actually get what we are paying for.If the community actually demanded a better crafting system they'd get one. As it stands now most people just accept that these things are gimmicks

People asked for open world PvP, and BW gave it. If people wanted it so badly, they should be there. Obviously it wasnt wanted as badly as advertised by the playerbase, or it would be thriving. BW has never made SWTOR about forcing people to participate in open world pvp, so why would you expect it to change now. This issue you present is player created, not BW created. They provided, the players just choose not to participate en masse.
You got to be kidding me this is your argument? Yeah we asked for it but that should be a no brainer to include incentives , come on man that has to be the lamest argument i've ever heard. Don't give me that we asked for it they'd be there, I guarantee peeps ask for new operations|flashpoints|Uprising all the time and if there were no "REWARDS" at the end you would be screaming bloody murder! There is no incentive other than gathering replicating components to go to Iokath. At the very least un-assemble comps should have been offered in some way as an incentive/reward.

Kazz_Devlin's Avatar


Kazz_Devlin
10.31.2017 , 01:07 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
By no means do I think classes are balanced right now, but you can literally go thru each class and find some aspect of their skillset that gives them an advantage that no other class has. Will it be exactly the same as what a merc is capable of? No. Are there areas of pvp where those other classes have a huge advantage? Yes. It isnt ever going to be completely balanced for pvp, and for every possible situation either.

That said, as mentioned before, if the merc is casting energy shield, they are likely low on health and will spend the time casting heals instead of dpsing. If they proactively cast ES, then your team likely didnt waste any dps attacking the merc, so dps likely would've caused another opponent to use their dcd as well. If thats the case, your team has an attritional advantage because both opponents will be left vulnerable without their dcds.
I take issue with stealth and heal to full. Our stealth is not the panacea you think it is. It is a joke really 9 out 10 times a sin cloaks out on me lacerate (AOE) pops him right out. If your dotted forget cloaking you'll get popped unless you have shroud up or spent utilities that gives shroud on cloak. Finally when you do actually manage to stealth out and make it away and uncloak and "heal to full" you can't cause your still flagged IN COMBAT

olagatonjedi's Avatar


olagatonjedi
10.31.2017 , 01:33 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Kazz_Devlin View Post
I take issue with stealth and heal to full. Our stealth is not the panacea you think it is. It is a joke really 9 out 10 times a sin cloaks out on me lacerate (AOE) pops him right out. If your dotted forget cloaking you'll get popped unless you have shroud up or spent utilities that gives shroud on cloak. Finally when you do actually manage to stealth out and make it away and uncloak and "heal to full" you can't cause your still flagged IN COMBAT
Not sure why you quoted me.