Every change isnt required to benefit the player base. There are other agendas within development that serve many other purposes. Just curious where you came to the conclusion that the change had to benefit the playerbase?

Is your name Eric?

Is your name Eric?

Its certainly possible. Why would that matter? I didnt answer his question, but posed a question back at him that perhaps he didnt consider before he asked his.

Is your name Eric?

Someone once asked if they ought to call him "Charles." Not sure what they meant by that though.

Every change isnt required to benefit the player base. There are other agendas within development that serve many other purposes. Just curious where you came to the conclusion that the change had to benefit the playerbase?

There are three types of outcome Bioware can deliver when choosing to make changes:

1) It benefits Players in some way.

2) It is neutral.

3) It is detrimental to Players in some way.

1) is very nearly always a correct choice; happier players spend more money, play longer and stay longer.

2) can be good or bad depending on conditional factors.

3) is always a wrong choice: ticked off players play less, stay less, a pay less.

Guess which one Bioware usually goes for.

Now you can understand why we have 6 servers instead of 200+.

All The Best

There are three types of outcome Bioware can deliver when choosing to make changes:

 

1) It benefits Players in some way.

2) It is neutral.

3) It is detrimental to Players in some way.

 

1) is very nearly always a correct choice; happier players spend more money, play longer and stay longer.

2) can be good or bad depending on conditional factors.

3) is always a wrong choice: ticked off players play less, stay less, a pay less.

 

Guess which one Bioware usually goes for.

 

Now you can understand why we have 6 servers instead of 200+.

 

All The Best

I'll just quote this for emphasis. Hits the nail on the head and explains why I spend 6 days a week in ESO and 1 day a week in SWTOR. I am in SWTOR only for my raid team not for the game anymore. In general, the end game sucks rocks. IF they add a level cap increase and yet more gear to grind, I'm not sure I'll stick around. The grind to get back to doing what we've been doing for years now just isn't worth it.

There are three types of outcome Bioware can deliver when choosing to make changes:

 

1) It benefits Players in some way.

2) It is neutral.

3) It is detrimental to Players in some way.

 

1) is very nearly always a correct choice; happier players spend more money, play longer and stay longer.

2) can be good or bad depending on conditional factors.

3) is always a wrong choice: ticked off players play less, stay less, a pay less.

 

Guess which one Bioware usually goes for.

 

Now you can understand why we have 6 servers instead of 200+.

 

All The Best

Thats a very simple way to look at it. Each player feels differently about every change based on how it impacts their personal situation. If slot locking makes gearing and optimizing take longer, as intended, it benefits some players and is worse for others, relative to each other.

Every change isnt required to benefit the player base. There are other agendas within development that serve many other purposes. Just curious where you came to the conclusion that the change had to benefit the playerbase?

Oh I know what the agenda was, make gearing into more a of grind, forcing people to need multiple characters to properly gear one. It's an attempt to make people play and grind more but it is an extremely lazy way of doing it and frankly I am very confidently assuming that the constant turn towards more and more mindless grinding is going end up causing more people to leave than it is to play.

The reason I want Eric to answer is I want them to admit they did something purely to make people grind and try to lazily make the game "longer". Of course they wont say that and so wont answer me I'm not surprised, just trying to make a point.

Thats a very simple way to look at it. Each player feels differently about every change based on how it impacts their personal situation. If slot locking makes gearing and optimizing take longer, as intended, it benefits some players and is worse for others, relative to each other.

That's a valid point.

If a player cares nothing about stats or adjusting their stat lines with highly customizable mods then they would be fine with locked in mods.

A player who likes customizing their stat lines and having greater control over their stats would prefer having movable mods.

Guess it depends on what kind of game SWTOR wants to be. Easy and little focus on details, or more of a thinking person's game where there's options and choices that allow a lot of customization.

Sadly for me, I prefer having lots of control over my mods and I enjoy being able to tinker with my stats easily by moving mods around. I like options and choices in games, and over time SWTOR has been phasing out that sort of game play hence my dissatisfaction with it.

Everything is designed to funnel you directly into very set systems whether it's gearing, conquest, etc. All these facets have been altered to remove a lot of the variations in gameplay by the players. I guess it's easier to design and develop cookie-cutter gear pieces that have immovable mods in it, so they went that route. Less moving pieces so to speak.

The reason I want Eric to answer is I want them to admit they did something purely to make people grind and try to lazily make the game "longer". Of course they wont say that and so wont answer me I'm not surprised, just trying to make a point.

Good luck completing this quest.

You'd need an active community manager or team to answer any personal concerns and that never happens openly on the forums. Maybe you would have better luck sending a PM seeing open chat never has any engaging conversations from any representatives of this game.

Oh I know what the agenda was, make gearing into more a of grind, forcing people to need multiple characters to properly gear one. It's an attempt to make people play and grind more but it is an extremely lazy way of doing it and frankly I am very confidently assuming that the constant turn towards more and more mindless grinding is going end up causing more people to leave than it is to play.

 

The reason I want Eric to answer is I want them to admit they did something purely to make people grind and try to lazily make the game "longer". Of course they wont say that and so wont answer me I'm not surprised, just trying to make a point.

I doubt it will make many people who are interested in the genre leave, at least not on its own. Its a common part of mmos, and is expected.

That's a valid point.

 

If a player cares nothing about stats or adjusting their stat lines with highly customizable mods then they would be fine with locked in mods.

 

A player who likes customizing their stat lines and having greater control over their stats would prefer having movable mods.

Actually, I think you identify the precise reason why the individual's point you quote is not valid, but inane. Here's why:

Some players don't care about stats, customization, or optimization. That's perfectly fine. But if they didn't care before, and they don't care now -- that is what we call a constant. They benefit in no way under the new system because there is zero impact on them. It's not that it s a good change or is a bad change -- it is an immaterial and irrelevant one that will likely not even be noticed because they weren't interested in swapping mods / enh to begin with.

Some players on the other hand like customization and optimization. For them, this is a new variable -- one which dramatically increases the grind in some cases. They are being punished because some players don't care or are too lazy to do math.

The argument that optimization and customization is still possible is pure specious claptrap. Here's why:

The only intellectually honest argument that I can think of to prevent swapping of mods / enh is to make balancing high-end PvE content easier on the devs. Why? Simple, because there are fewer variables they have to account for in player capabilities.

But as a certain poster has pointed out -- optimization and customization is, in fact, still possible. So that renders the high-end PvE content balancing argument moot.

This leads to one inescapable and inexorable conclusion: It is designed to increase the grind. In so doing, it annoys players. But in no way does it benefit players who never optimized before and have no intention to do so now -- it is a complete wash. But I think it is clear it annoys other players to a sufficient degree that it adds another straw on the proverbial camel's back. And the poor camel's back can only handle so many straws.

Grinds may be an inherent part of MMORPG's, but there are limits.

Dasty

That's a valid point.

 

If a player cares nothing about stats or adjusting their stat lines with highly customizable mods then they would be fine with locked in mods.

 

A player who likes customizing their stat lines and having greater control over their stats would prefer having movable mods.

 

Guess it depends on what kind of game SWTOR wants to be. Easy and little focus on details, or more of a thinking person's game where there's options and choices that allow a lot of customization.

 

Sadly for me, I prefer having lots of control over my mods and I enjoy being able to tinker with my stats easily by moving mods around. I like options and choices in games, and over time SWTOR has been phasing out that sort of game play hence my dissatisfaction with it.

 

Everything is designed to funnel you directly into very set systems whether it's gearing, conquest, etc. All these facets have been altered to remove a lot of the variations in gameplay by the players. I guess it's easier to design and develop cookie-cutter gear pieces that have immovable mods in it, so they went that route. Less moving pieces so to speak.

I really dislike cookie-cutter classes and builds.

In an effort to make SWTOR easier to maintain, I fear the devs may further dumb down the game. Removal of utility trees was step 1. Step 2 was creating the Bolster sytem. Step 3, they removed some ability bloat. Step 4, they lock mods to gear pieces. What's step 5? Maybe SWTOR becomes a 4-button game with no removable mods

In an effort to make SWTOR easier to maintain,

Easier to maintain... *thinking* I wonder why they would want to make a game that gets updates at ever increasing intervals by a studio that is about to launch their own new IP easier to maintain? Hmmmm....

That's a valid point.

 

If a player cares nothing about stats or adjusting their stat lines with highly customizable mods then they would be fine with locked in mods.

 

A player who likes customizing their stat lines and having greater control over their stats would prefer having movable mods.

 

Guess it depends on what kind of game SWTOR wants to be. Easy and little focus on details, or more of a thinking person's game where there's options and choices that allow a lot of customization.

 

Sadly for me, I prefer having lots of control over my mods and I enjoy being able to tinker with my stats easily by moving mods around. I like options and choices in games, and over time SWTOR has been phasing out that sort of game play hence my dissatisfaction with it.

 

Everything is designed to funnel you directly into very set systems whether it's gearing, conquest, etc. All these facets have been altered to remove a lot of the variations in gameplay by the players. I guess it's easier to design and develop cookie-cutter gear pieces that have immovable mods in it, so they went that route. Less moving pieces so to speak.

 

 

 

 

Good luck completing this quest.

 

You'd need an active community manager or team to answer any personal concerns and that never happens openly on the forums. Maybe you would have better luck sending a PM seeing open chat never has any engaging conversations from any representatives of this game.

Cookie cutter builds make it easier for those players who dont cate about stats (or dont have the time to try to configure their tons) to be closer in equality to optimized stats, which levels the playing field more, makes development easier for balancing, AND most importantly gets more people PLAYING the game instead of on their spreadsheets trying to figure out how to micro-optimize their toons. So the end result, that is often overlooked, is that players are better equipped/optimized across the board, fixes to unbalanced content can be fixed easier, and actual activity increases.

Cookie cutter builds make it easier for those players who dont cate about stats (or dont have the time to try to configure their tons) to be closer in equality to optimized stats, which levels the playing field more, makes development easier for balancing, AND most importantly gets more people PLAYING the game instead of on their spreadsheets trying to figure out how to micro-optimize their toons. So the end result, that is often overlooked, is that players are better equipped/optimized across the board, fixes to unbalanced content can be fixed easier, and actual activity increases.

In theory maybe. I've often said play the game as a game and not as a (damn) spreadsheet myself, but was then told that the spreadsheet bit is the fun factor for those kind of players. Take that away from them and they lose their incentive. So I don't think that it would actually increase activity.

In theory maybe. I've often said play the game as a game and not as a (damn) spreadsheet myself, but was then told that the spreadsheet bit is the fun factor for those kind of players. Take that away and they lose their incentive. So I don't think that it would actually increase activity, but rather decrease.

100% Correct. If Olag's argument had any merit, they would eliminate the ability entirely. Instead, they have only made it more arduous.

Dasty

Yup. I love the calculations and "optimum" stat values. It's fun and it makes my character seem less cookie-cutter.

But let's discuss tank gear. Why is there 2500 defense in tank gear? Any good tank knows that that much defense is WAY over the point of diminishing returns. The devs had a chance to fix this in 5.10 with 252-258 gear, but they did not.

I think this hearkens back to the players knowing more about the game than the devs (because they don't play).

In theory maybe. I've often said play the game as a game and not as a (damn) spreadsheet myself, but was then told that the spreadsheet bit is the fun factor for those kind of players. Take that away from them and they lose their incentive. So I don't think that it would actually increase activity.

Less time in front of a spreadsheet or on social media sites requesting the optimal setup will generally lead to more time in front of the screen, being active. It isnt limited to people who make the spreadsheets, but anyone interested in playing the game. More optimized cookie cutter builds equals more dps and heals and tanking, innately (assuming skill remains the same) across the board.

On the flip side, players who have taken the time to dig deep enough to optimize their toons with a spreadsheet have a much larger vested interest in the game, so leaving the game is much less likely (but not impossible). The change is likely for the majority of the playerbase to benefit from, the casual player. Will some customizers leave because of the change? Possibly. But i am confident more casuals will enjoy the changes and enjky the added benefits of optimization than the number of players who will leave over such a change. It was a gamble worth taking, imo.

Of note, i AM an optimizer and spreadsheet player myself. I dont see an issue with this change because of the impact it will likely have on the game.

Less time in front of a spreadsheet or on social media sites requesting the optimal setup will generally lead to more time in front of the screen, being active. It isnt limited to people who make the spreadsheets, but anyone interested in playing the game. More optimized cookie cutter builds equals more dps and heals and tanking, innately (assuming skill remains the same) across the board.

 

On the flip side, players who have taken the time to dig deep enough to optimize their toons with a spreadsheet have a much larger vested interest in the game, so leaving the game is much less likely (but not impossible). The change is likely for the majority of the playerbase to benefit from, the casual player. Will some customizers leave because of the change? Possibly. But i am confident more casuals will enjoy the changes and enjky the added benefits of optimization than the number of players who will leave over such a change. It was a gamble worth taking, imo.

It takes players who develop the spreadsheets a lot of time. Reading them takes minimal time. This isn't Advanced Euclidean Geometry to comprehend. And, for the record, I don't consider the spreadsheets gospel -- only a tool. But you make it sound like we are slaves to the spreadsheet, which I am not. But even if I were, it would have zero impact on the players you are championing. To wit...

It took me a whopping 30 seconds to look at their hard work and understand alacrity breakpoints.

It required zero seconds to figure out that in certain instances accuracy was a wasted stat.

Your statement that casuals will enjoy the benefit of optimization is complete rubbish because they are not, in fact, optimized. They may not care, but they didn't before. It's like having the church tell me I now have to do 1000 additional Hail Mary's before I can kiss a girl. Given that I have no interest in kissing girls, the new penalty is meaningless. Some people, however, like to kiss girls (let freedom ring!) but now have to jump through extra hoops, timely hoops -- despite the fact they will ultimately reach that goal.

WHICH RENDERS YOUR PVE BALANCING ARGUMENT MOOT.

Dasty

The irony of this is they can't even do simple right. I mean the gearing system is a conglomeration of different gearing systems, it's not one bit fluid or simple.

Yet they have dumbed down so many other things and removed the little details of the game that made it special.

Like level syncing. This had good intentions but it wrecked all the individual flashpoints by removing their really fun and interesting class specific loots and gears that the bosses dropped. Now, you get some generic blue or purple non-moddable piece that you can get anywhere at that same level. It's just bland and unimaginative.

Companions that can solo heroic mobs. Making all companions equal to one another with no specialties to them, like how Mako was a healer, and Kaliyo was a tank. They homogenized them all! All the minute detailed dev work done on these original pieces of art totally gutted and yanked out for the sake of simplicity and in some cases to please some players who cried that they couldn't use their favorite companion due to it not being good at filling a specific role. They also removed companion gearing then, too. Some people like this move, while others miss the customization gearing a companion added.

The whole point is by simplifying the game they have removed a lot of the fun factor from it.

By locking in mods, that just adds one more layer of wrecking a part of the game that made it unique and special as well as fun.

I am not a spreadsheet kind of guy, but I still like to have the option of creating a stat line on my toons via movable mods and enhancements. It used to be like fixing up a hot rod with custom parts to get different performance out of it. This was fun! One time I made a JC that had alacrity on every piece I could equip on him. Every mod, ear, implant, augments, etc. I did it just for the fun of it. Now, if you wanted to monkey around like that, it would take you months to accrue the parts.

Simplifying a game especially when it once was more dynamic isn't good for the game, no matter how convenient it is for the game company. All they have done is damaged art imo.

It takes players who develop the spreadsheets a lot of time. Reading them takes minimal time. This isn't Advanced Euclidean Geometry to comprehend. And, for the record, I don't consider the spreadsheets gospel -- only a tool. But you make it sound like we are slaves to the spreadsheet, which I am not. But even if I were, it would have zero impact on the players you are championing. To wit...

 

It took me a whopping 30 seconds to look at their hard work and understand alacrity breakpoints.

 

It required zero seconds to figure out that in certain instances accuracy was a wasted stat.

 

Your statement that casuals will enjoy the benefit of optimization is complete rubbish because they are not, in fact, optimized. They may not care, but they didn't before. It's like having the church tell me I now have to do 1000 additional Hail Mary's before I can kiss a girl. Given that I have no interest in kissing girls, the new penalty is meaningless. Some people, however, like to kiss girls (let freedom ring!) but now have to jump through extra hoops, timely hoops -- despite the fact they will ultimately reach that goal.

 

WHICH RENDERS YOUR PVE BALANCING ARGUMENT MOOT.

 

Dasty

Thank you for your opinion.

The irony of this is they can't even do simple right. I mean the gearing system is a conglomeration of different gearing systems, it's not one bit fluid or simple.

 

Yet they have dumbed down so many other things and removed the little details of the game that made it special.

 

Like level syncing. This had good intentions but it wrecked all the individual flashpoints by removing their really fun and interesting class specific loots and gears that the bosses dropped. Now, you get some generic blue or purple non-moddable piece that you can get anywhere at that same level. It's just bland and unimaginative.

 

Companions that can solo heroic mobs. Making all companions equal to one another with no specialties to them, like how Mako was a healer, and Kaliyo was a tank. They homogenized them all! All the minute detailed dev work done on these original pieces of art totally gutted and yanked out for the sake of simplicity and in some cases to please some players who cried that they couldn't use their favorite companion due to it not being good at filling a specific role. They also removed companion gearing then, too. Some people like this move, while others miss the customization gearing a companion added.

 

The whole point is by simplifying the game they have removed a lot of the fun factor from it.

 

By locking in mods, that just adds one more layer of wrecking a part of the game that made it unique and special as well as fun.

 

I am not a spreadsheet kind of guy, but I still like to have the option of creating a stat line on my toons via movable mods and enhancements. It used to be like fixing up a hot rod with custom parts to get different performance out of it. This was fun! One time I made a JC that had alacrity on every piece I could equip on him. Every mod, ear, implant, augments, etc. I did it just for the fun of it. Now, if you wanted to monkey around like that, it would take you months to accrue the parts.

 

Simplifying a game especially when it once was more dynamic isn't good for the game, no matter how convenient it is for the game company. All they have done is damaged art imo.

I disagree.

Thank you for your opinion.

You have no idea how much your thanks mean to me. As soon as I finish typing this, to celebrate your appreciation, I'm squeezing my Hutt-butt into a fuchsia with white polka-dotted speedo / banana hammock (for the Aussies) and finishing it off with a royal blue feathered boa and heading down to one of the last remaining Glarmour Shots at the mall. Sadly, for others, you now must erase the following from your mental image:

A Hutt in a fuchsia with white polka-dotted speedo / banana hammock (for the Aussies), royal blue feathered boa, holding a Swarovski crystal glass of a freshly chilled Chopin martini, smiling at the camera.

More broadly, I know you and I have had a tumultuous posting history. We started out strong when I defended the gearing system of 5.6 introduced in November 2017. Alas, I have raised some criticisms since then which drove a wedge between us. And, well, your ignorance of raid vs. raid boss.

Regardless, I think the following video sums up my feelings for you:

I mean, really, how can we be lovers if we can't be friends?

Dasty

Thats a very simple way to look at it. Each player feels differently about every change based on how it impacts their personal situation.

ABsolutely.

But when we've gone from 200+ servers to just 6 the ONLY conclusion that can be arrived at is that on balance those changes have been negative in their outcome.

That is they have ticked off many, many times more players than they have benefited.

The math don't lie.

All The Best