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Post 2.0 DPS Focus or Vigilance?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Guardian / Juggernaut
Post 2.0 DPS Focus or Vigilance?

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
03.11.2013 , 10:34 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by Andrew_Past View Post
The armor talent boosts my damage reduction by about 3% on the test server. As for more burst, Masterstrike does more damage than live too. Plasma Brand and all dots hit harder as well.
I forgot about Master Strike, the 2% extra from the Master Focus talent is a nice boost (poor Sentinels miss out on it now as well). I didn't mention the dots because I don't really tie dots to burst, but yeah, if you look at it as damage hitting at once, then yeah.

As for the armor talent, I'll have to take a look sometime. From what I recall with the Vanguard version, it only added around 1% DR to my character sheet when I took it in a DPS spec, but my memory could be fuzzy. 3% is a bit better, although still quite costly (2 skill points if you count the 1 you have to waste in Dust Storm) for something that doesn't really add much to your burst survivability, I'd still probably steer clear of it for PvP. There's too many other solid things in both the Vigilance tree and Focus tree.

EDIT: Just checked, its a little under a 3% boost. I'd probably lean against it, Commanding Awe gives you far more bang for your buck. Its kind of like Tactics as a Vanguard, I wouldn't spec for the DR boost unless I'm running in Ion Cell, 2% for 2 skill points is expensive, and this is barely better (this is also only armor DR too, unlike Commanding Awe which applies to Internal/Elemental damage as well, besides making Focused Defense a really nice def cd).

draklite's Avatar


draklite
03.12.2013 , 03:43 AM | #12
Quick question guys , are there new relics in 2.0 ? just wondering if its worth spending my daily comms on the relics of picking up a mount and grinding some more comms for when 2.0 hits.

RodneyMcNeely's Avatar


RodneyMcNeely
03.19.2013 , 02:44 PM | #13
So, how will Vigilance fare in 2.0 in 1v1 situations?

And how will it compare post-2.0 to Kinetic Combat Shadows/Darkness Assassins in a 1-on-1 fight?

Ugolino's Avatar


Ugolino
03.19.2013 , 03:26 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by SabreNova View Post
As title states, post 2.0, what is better for DPS guardian who does PvP/PvE half and half? I've noticed Focus seems to crazy good for PvP but don't know how good in PvE, while Vigilance is fairly good in both aspects.

Thanks!
Stay Focus. Smash monkeys, keep your grubby little mitts off my Vigilance.

wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
03.20.2013 , 09:29 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by RodneyMcNeely View Post
So, how will Vigilance fare in 2.0 in 1v1 situations?

And how will it compare post-2.0 to Kinetic Combat Shadows/Darkness Assassins in a 1-on-1 fight?
Honestly, its always been a really good 1v1 class if you can get that first leap in, and I don't think much changes in that regard with 2.0. Saber Reflect when up is a great tool to quickly swing a fight in your favor.

As for how it fares against tanksins, I think Saber Reflect at just the right time (3 stack Harnessed Darkness Force Lightning) could finally give you the edge needed to win a 1v1, but they still have more tools than we do, and if wearing a shield, they can defend or shield most of the damage we do (only Plasma Brand would be guaranteed to go through, and its on a longer cooldown now).

I will add, if Keening procs it gives you another great attack to use while they have Force Shroud up.

Andrew_Past's Avatar


Andrew_Past
03.20.2013 , 11:35 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by wadecounty View Post
Honestly, its always been a really good 1v1 class if you can get that first leap in, and I don't think much changes in that regard with 2.0. Saber Reflect when up is a great tool to quickly swing a fight in your favor.

As for how it fares against tanksins, I think Saber Reflect at just the right time (3 stack Harnessed Darkness Force Lightning) could finally give you the edge needed to win a 1v1, but they still have more tools than we do, and if wearing a shield, they can defend or shield most of the damage we do (only Plasma Brand would be guaranteed to go through, and its on a longer cooldown now).

I will add, if Keening procs it gives you another great attack to use while they have Force Shroud up.
Blade Storm will go through shield due to auto-crit. Plus, our burns do more damage overall now, helping against tanks in general (admittedly, less useful vs tank sins due to their weaker armor and Shroud). Sunder changes also gives the biggest boost when fighting tanks.

As for tank sins having more tools, that's not quite accurate. Tanksins have Deflection, Shroud, and Overcharge Saber as defensives. OS now grants 25% damage reduction in addition to a 15% heal. This basically makes it combined version of our Focused Defense and Enure but on a longer CD, with a minor offensive boost. They also have stealth as an escape. However, if they want to use stealth as an escape vs Vigilance, they have to use shroud with it or be revealed by dots.

Vigilance has Saber Ward, Saber Reflect, Focused Defense, and Enure as defensives. It has Guardian Leap as an escape (in PVP 1v1s, there's usually someone available to GL to). In PVP gear, GL will also heal for 8% (10.4% when Enure is active).

Saber Ward is much more potent than Deflect. Deflect boosts white damage dodge chance by 50%. Saber Ward boosts white damage dodge chance by 100% for the first 2s and by 50% for the remainder and boosts yellow damage reduction by 25%. What this means is that if a tanksin uses Deflect, Vigilance can use yellow damage attacks to completely bypass the defensive. Saber Ward is effective against all attacks.

Saber Reflect and Shroud are similar, but potent in different ways. Vigilance vs Tanksin, Saber Reflect used to reflect an auto-crit Shock or Harnessed Darkness Lightning will swing the tide of the fight greatly to the Guardian's favor. Not only does it prevent that damage from being taken, but inflicts it back on the attacker. This provides a more potent boost to what Force Shroud can provide. However, Tanksins' Shroud lasts 5s compared to Saber Reflect's 3s. Thus, Saber Reflect and Shroud are about equal to each other in this match-up.

Focused Defense and Overcharge Saber are both good in their own rights. Given the nature of how Tanksins deal damage, Focused Defense's heal provides equivalent net damage mitigation compared to Overcharge Saber's 25% damage reduction. This is due to Tanksins never using any heavy hitting attacks, but relying more on consistent moderate damage attacks. Focused Defense also has a far shorter CD, allowing it to be used in most fights.

Enure's 30% temporary heal is better in a 1v1 than Overcharge Saber's 15% heal. Especially considering the fact that WZ medpacs, Focused Defense, and Guardian Leap heals are all more efficient when used during Enure. For example, when a WZ medpac is used after Enure, a Guardian's HP is boosted by 70.5% compared to Overcharge Saber + WZ medpac only healing for 50% HP. Yes, 30% HP is last after the duration of Enure. However, in a 1v1 scenario, most fights will be over before the duration expires.

Note: Focused Defense and Enure being separate makes them more flexible than Overcharge saber, and both are on short CDs.
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wadecounty's Avatar


wadecounty
03.20.2013 , 12:49 PM | #17
I know where we stand on cooldowns, I mentioned Saber Reflect, nothing else has changed post 2.0. It was a loss against a good tanksin then, if you time your Saber Reflect well it can be a win now.

The thing about a tanksin is its going to be a long fight, and they have what it takes to win a long fight, between much better self healing, enough damage to wear you down, and the ability to reset combat if things aren't going in his favor. Also, a good tanksin (assuming full Darkness in this case) will have his snare up on you constantly just by attacking, while you have to refresh yours and spend resource to do so, meaning he can 10m kite you like a Powertech does since most of his attacks have a range of 10m. Bad tanksins won't really take advantage of this... good ones will, and they can make it infuriating just trying to land blows on them (not to mention their Force Speed breaks your snare, and Shroud does as well). They also have not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, but 6 (!) ways to ruin your Master Strike (Spike, Electrocute, Deflection, Blackout, Force Speed and Overload), and all of those are usable even after Unremitting, they just have to time Spike, Electrocute and Overload for the last .5 seconds before that last tick of Master Strike hits.

Again, use Saber Reflect at just the right time, it might be a win. That's the game changer (9% more bleed damage isn't going to change what was a lopsided 1v1 matchup on live). Otherwise, things haven't changed, although stealth classes always tend to dominate 1v1's so its nothing to feel bad about.

Kaedusz's Avatar


Kaedusz
03.20.2013 , 01:34 PM | #18
Quick question for those that have tried Vigilance on the pts.If you play vigilance on the pts,can you outright be first on damage done in pvp if you are good ,the way sentinels do the moment ,or you are still a tounter and hutball leaper with medium dps.
Wondering if i still have to go Focus after 2.0 if i am in a damage dealing mood.

I notice that everyone is so happy about some ''buffs'' but they forget that other classes are buffed too.For example Combat Sentinel gets a talent similar to ''Keening'' too,that allows Dispatch to be used on targets above 30%.

Aiden_Lalocyd's Avatar


Aiden_Lalocyd
03.20.2013 , 03:36 PM | #19
Andrew breaks it down perfectly...as a vigilance guardian myself the amount of burst combined with the ability the last in those long fights is gonna make this spec a definite handful for any class. 2.0 can't come fast enough
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