I frankly do not see what "player housing" would accomplish.

Do you want specifically the SWG-style urban blight?

Do you want yet ANOTHER instanced area beyond your ship? What's wrong with your ship?

I'd be all right with customizing the interior and adding decorations to my ship. I'm an on-the-go adventurer, after all. But wasting developer time and resources for a house somewhere? That's just unnecessary.

It's not a question of "where do we put the houses?". It's a question of adding value to the game and direction.

To many people it does add value, just because you disagree does not make those opinions invalid.

If you take a non-sandbox game, and add random sandbox features, the game does not suddenly become an awesome sandbox game. It becomes a non-sandbox game with randomly grafted sandbox features. While this can work, the chances it would work are minuscule at best because SWTOR isn't a sandbox. Especially when you take into account the unsupported idea of "housing" in the sense of a planet-side, physical home as compared to a ship.

Player housing is not a sandbox feature. No one is asking for SWTOR to becaome a sandbox game. No one is demanding un-instanced planetside housing.

If you want something like player housing, I'm sorry to say but it's not going to be like SWG. You have a personal ship per character that is the focus and . This constitutes a thematic direction when you take all the action and activities that take place on your ship both in SWTOR, and the KOTOR games before it.

So you know exactly what Bioware plans for the future? Fascinating, do share.

Your "house" is your ship. Any "housing" is going to be ship-based, be it the ability to buy a new ship in the future, and/or decorate the inside or outer hull.

Hence why people are asking for ship customisation, which amounts to player housing. Funnily enough SWG had a starship player house.

Any "guild housing" they add to the game will, most likely, consist of a "guild fleet" made up of capital ships because it will keep with that already established theme.

Suits me, player housing is player housing.

Sorry. No white-picket fence crap.

No one is asking for that.

I frankly do not see what "player housing" would accomplish.

 

Do you want specifically the SWG-style urban blight?

 

Do you want yet ANOTHER instanced area beyond your ship? What's wrong with your ship?

 

I'd be all right with customizing the interior and adding decorations to my ship. I'm an on-the-go adventurer, after all. But wasting developer time and resources for a house somewhere? That's just unnecessary.

Player housing adds diversity to game content and appeals to many people, adding it to the game would please a lot of people and open up many new cartel market options for BW to make money. That is what it would accomplish. You may have no interest in it but that is fine, but saying 'I don't see what it would accomplish' as if that is an argument for not adding such features is absurd. I don't see the point of PvP and you don't see me demanding BW drop it and focus on things that do interest me, because I understand that MMOs need content that appeals to as many different types of player as possible.

Also many of us who do want player housing would be quite happy with ship customisation, I'd love to have more options for player housing too buy honestly I think many player housing fans would be happy just to decorate and customise their ships.

Again, who are you to say what is unnecessary? Why is content that appeals to many people unnecessary just because some people have no interest in it? The logic is lacking.

To many people it does add value, just because you disagree does not make those opinions invalid.

 

 

Player housing is not a sandbox feature. No one is asking for SWTOR to becaome a sandbox game. No one is demanding un-instanced planetside housing.

 

 

So you know exactly what Bioware plans for the future? Fascinating, do share.

 

 

Hence why people are asking for ship customisation, which amounts to player housing. Funnily enough SWG had a starship player house.

 

 

Suits me, player housing is player housing.

 

 

No one is asking for that.

 

 

Player housing adds diversity to game content and appeals to many people, adding it to the game would please a lot of people and open up many new cartel market options for BW to make money. That is what it would accomplish. You may have no interest in it but that is fine, but saying 'I don't see what it would accomplish' as if that is an argument for not adding such features is absurd. I don't see the point of PvP and you don't see me demanding BW drop it and focus on things that do interest me, because I understand that MMOs need content that appeals to as many different types of player as possible.

 

Also many of us who do want player housing would be quite happy with ship customisation, I'd love to have more options for player housing too buy honestly I think many player housing fans would be happy just to decorate and customise their ships.

Again, who are you to say what is unnecessary? Why is content that appeals to many people unnecessary just because some people have no interest in it? The logic is lacking.

In an argument between opinions, invoking the word "logic" to back your opinion or to try to debase another is itself a logical fallacy.

Logic is a tool and a helpful one. It's not a blunt instrument to attack someone with, not something you declare on your side to win an argument of opinion. My finest professor taught me that.

I'm not attacking anyone with logic or otherwise. Nor am I debasing the opinion of anyone else. What I am doing is pointing out that using ones opinion as some kind of objective arbiter* of what is or is not necessary in a game whose success rests on appealing to as broad a playerbase as possible is quite flawed reasoning. I have not declared logic to be on my side, I simply try and keep my own arguments as logical as possible and have, once or twice, pointed out the lack of logic in certain other arguments.

*I am not setting up my opinion as such either, I am simply stating real benefits of adding player housining a calm and logical fashion.

I'm not attacking anyone with logic or otherwise. Nor am I debasing the opinion of anyone else. What I am doing is pointing out that using ones opinion as some kind of objective arbiter* of what is or is not necessary in a game whose success rests on appealing to as broad a playerbase as possible is quite flawed reasoning. I have not declared logic to be on my side, I simply try and keep my own arguments as logical as possible and have, once or twice, pointed out the lack of logic in certain other arguments.

 

 

*I am not setting up my opinion as such either, I am simply stating real benefits of adding player housining a calm and logical fashion.

Haha. There's that "logical" word again. Oh, and scroll up. "the logic is lacking". Implying of course that my logic is inferior to yours, which is itself funny considering that we're dealing with opinions.

Don't try to back out of this with passive-aggressive rhetorical glaze. You baked your cake. Now eat it.

Pointing out that an argument isn't logical is not the same as attacking someones opinion based on logic. Look at the full quote:

Again, who are you to say what is unnecessary? Why is content that appeals to many people unnecessary just because some people have no interest in it? The logic is lacking.

I am quite clearly referring to the argument, not you. If you think that what amounts to 'I don't like or see the need for something, therefore no one should have access to it' is a logical then I am not sure what else to say.

I am not being passive aggressive, I am being calm and rational. I have no issue with your opinion, just your declarations of what is or is not necessary for the game. I am not even arguing that player housing is necessary, it is not. It is however something for which there is demand and opportunities for Bioware to make money and expand/placate the playerbase. I argue that more and varied content for an MMO is an important thing regardless of how one may feel towards the specifics.

That is so illogical I don't know where to begin. For a start a war themed narratively based themepark MMO is not antithetical to player housing, that is a laughable proposition. Unless you are arguing that people don't need houses during a war or that stories can't involve houses. It's ridiculous. The length and breadth of SWTOR is far beyond that of a battlefield, much of it takes place during a cold war and none of the characters we play are dedicated front line troops that can never leave the battlefield without permission. They are free-agents accepting missions as they see fit, there is no reason why they wouldn't take a break between missions to visit home.

I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be depicted because it isn't at all relevant to the narrative.

While "never leave the battlefield without permission" is true, in that as a player you have final say of what your character does, Every Character is guided along by someone of note in the Republic/Empire or the Jedi/Sith, and every region you visit is a warzone.

As to your first point, that is simply a case of 'I don't want it so BW shouldn't waste time on something I don't want'. If there is demand for player housing (which evidently there is) those people have as much right to developers time as you do. More and varied content is only a good thing for an MMO and while, of course, BW should prioritise things that will benefit the most people there is absolutely no reason why people who want player housing can't continue to campaign for it.

Demand alone isn't enough to justify something being included in a game, regardless of the genre. In fact I would suggest more often than not the way most games get ruined (especially for MMO's) is by attempting to do all things for all people.

I'm not saying that people who want it shouldn't camp for it. I simply don't think it fits in with everything else the game is trying to do.

Saying something is so does not make it so, even on the internet. Saying oneself is "rational" or even "calm" is more self-gratifying than self-evident. The more you throw the word "logic" around to promote yourself or to belittle those you argue with, the less meaning or believability the word has. It's like those people who say everyone to the left of "screw the poor" are "socialists". The word starts to lose both teeth and meaning.

It's an attempt, and a weak one, to belittle those who disagree.

Back to the point: unless it's ship customization you are after (which seems to be well in line with developer intentions for the game, an extension of what they've already offered with integrated GTN terminals, repair droids, and even training dummies), it's likely to happen sooner or later.

If what you're asking for is SWG-style housing on the landscape, not only would that require entire new zones specifically made to drop big prefabricated buildings onto (and a nightmare of additional coding to make it work with the current engine!), but it'd do little to serve or please much of the current gamerbase, chasing after a minority that is better served in MMOs that have static, modifiable housing in them from the start.

Ultima Online is still around. Or, if you prefer sci-fi, check out the upcoming "The Repopulation".

I'm arguing that it doesn't need to be depicted because it isn't at all relevant to the narrative.

While "never leave the battlefield without permission" is true, in that as a player you have final say of what your character does, Every Character is guided along by someone of note in the Republic/Empire or the Jedi/Sith, and every country you visit is a warzone.

Fair enough, but I disagree. Not everything in SWTOR is based dogmatically around the narrative, Huttball, for example. One could even argue for player housing colonies on conquered worlds as a method used by both sides to aid in pacificaion if you did want to dress it up in some kind of narrative. Of course this assumes that player housing has to literally be housing, as I've said ship customisation and decoration would suffice.

Demand alone isn't enough to justify something being included in a game, regardless of the genre. In fact I would suggest more often than not the way most games get ruined (especially for MMO's) is by attempting to do all things for all people.

I never said it did, but one can make a strong argument for man material benefits to BW for including player housing. Those who want it will be happy, it appeals to many people and adds a new thing to show off to help entice people to the game. Adding decoration schemes, furniture etc. to the cartel market will also make them money.

I'm not saying that people who want it shouldn't camp for it. I simply don't think it fits in with everything else the game is trying to do.

I disagree, I think it aids immersion and community and would in no way adversely impact the game. But thank you for expressing your opinion sensibly and politely.

Saying something is so does not make it so, even on the internet. Saying oneself is "rational" or even "calm" is more self-gratifying than self-evident. The more you throw the word "logic" around to promote yourself or to belittle those you argue with, the less meaning or believability the word has. It's like those people who say everyone to the left of "screw the poor" are "socialists". The word starts to lose both teeth and meaning.

I think this speaks of your own frustration more than it does mine. I am not throwing the word logic around, I've used it once or twice and thereafter only in response to your erroneous claims about my intent. I am not even belittling you by doing so. Irrelevant analogies are irrelevant. As for being calm and rational, I will let the tone and content of my posts speak for me.

It's an attempt, and a weak one, to belittle those who disagree.

It is not, it pointing out what I perceive to be a flawed argument.

Back to the point: unless it's ship customization you are after (which seems to be well in line with developer intentions for the game, an extension of what they've already offered with integrated GTN terminals, repair droids, and even training dummies), it's likely to happen sooner or later.

I would be happy with that.

If what you're asking for is SWG-style housing on the landscape, not only would that require entire new zones specifically made to drop big prefabricated buildings onto (and a nightmare of additional coding to make it work with the current engine!), but it'd do little to serve or please much of the current gamerbase, chasing after a minority that is better served in MMOs that have static, modifiable housing in them from the start.

I do not want SWG style player cities, they were a nightmare. If there were to be planetside player housing at all (which I would like but I certainly will not be upset if it never happens) I would want it to be in instanced neighborhoods along the lines of LOTRO. Even simply an instanced apartment inside a larger building would be perfectly fine, though an instanced area with multiple player houses and outside areas to gather would be my preference for RP and community building reasons. But this is not a demand, merely an opinion.

Ultima Online is still around. Or, if you prefer sci-fi, check out the upcoming "The Repopulation"

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am unhappy with SWTOR. I am not. I do not require player housing to make me love this game, it is simply content I would like to see added in the future. If not, oh well.

Fair enough, but I disagree. Not everything in SWTOR is based dogmatically around the narrative, Huttball, for example. One could even argue for player housing colonies on conquered worlds as a method used by both sides to aid in pacificaion if you did want to dress it up in some kind of narrative. Of course this assumes that player housing has to literally be housing, as I've said ship customisation and decoration would suffice.

 

 

I never said it did, but one can make a strong argument for man material benefits to BW for including player housing. Those who want it will be happy, it appeals to many people and adds a new thing to show off to help entice people to the game. Adding decoration schemes, furniture etc. to the cartel market will also make them money.

 

I disagree, I think it aids immersion and community and would in no way adversely impact the game. But thank you for expressing your opinion sensibly and politely.

 

 

I think this speaks of your own frustration more than it does mine. I am not throwing the word logic around, I've used it once or twice and thereafter only in response to your erroneous claims about my intent. I am not even belittling you by doing so. Irrelevant analogies are irrelevant. As for being calm and rational, I will let the tone and content of my posts speak for me.

 

 

It is not, it pointing out what I perceive to be a flawed argument.

 

 

I would be happy with that.

 

 

I do not want SWG style player cities, they were a nightmare. If there were to be planetside player housing at all (which I would like but I certainly will not be upset if it never happens) I would want it to be in instanced neighborhoods along the lines of LOTRO. Even simply an instanced apartment inside a larger building would be perfectly fine, though an instanced area with multiple player houses and outside areas to gather would be my preference for RP and community building reasons. But this is not a demand, merely an opinion.

 

 

You seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that I am unhappy with SWTOR. I am not. I do not require player housing to make me love this game, it is simply content I would like to see added in the future. If not, oh well.

Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.

Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

 

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

 

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.

I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.

I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.

Exactly, this is a different era, and a different game.

The only thing from SWG that SWTOR needs is more hue color lightsabers, and more ship options.

Please don't make me scroll up and count the many times you've thrown the word "logic" around. It's much more than once or twice. You either have a vastly inflated appraisal of the value of your own opinions or you have a very fragile point of view of the same that needs to be bolstered. "Rational" counts as well, but even if it didn't, it's quite a bit more than "once or twice."

 

You'd do well and be much more persuasive in the future if you got off that high chair you made for yourself and accepted that your opinions are just as subjective as the rest of ours.

 

Funny, I actually agree with most of what you say, but how you say it chafes me and smacks of a lot of bad rhetoric going the rounds these days on the internet.

I think you are projecting your own issues onto me to be frank. I am not holding my opinion higher than anyone else, I'm simply pointing out that demanding others be deprived of something they want because you do not want it is foolish. I'm putting forward arguments as to why I think player housing would be good for the game, they are my opinion and I've never said otherwise. I'm happy for people to disagree if they can express why politely.

I can't blame em for being a bit rude in their responses. Player housing keeps being brought up by the SWG fanboys who desperately try to shape SWTOR into SWG 2.

It is quite possible to desire player housing without wanting to copy SWG or turn SWTOR into SWG. There is an element of that but and it is silly but constantly dismissing talk of player housing simply because SWG had it is no better.

It is quite possible to desire player housing without wanting to copy SWG or turn SWTOR into SWG. There is an element of that but and it is silly but constantly dismissing talk of player housing simply because SWG had it is no better.

Nobody is dismissing anything.. But a fact the matter is simply, I have heard a billion times on these forums how wonderful player housing was on SWG.. Going all the way back to the beta.. There is a thread on this very topic on the suggestion forum.. SWG was brought up again as to how wonderful player housing was..

Most people do not want this game to be anything like SWG..

We have our ships.. What is wrong with that?? Why can't you live on your ship??

Nobody is dismissing anything.. But a fact the matter is simply, I have heard a billion times on these forums how wonderful player housing was on SWG.. Going all the way back to the beta.. There is a thread on this very topic on the suggestion forum.. SWG was brought up again as to how wonderful player housing was.. Most people do not want this game to be anything like SWG.. We have our ships.. What is wrong with that?? Why can't you live on your ship??

you could modify ships in SWG exactly like you could modify the houses. it was fricken awesome. it does not matter if you have heard it a billion times., it has less to do with swg and more to do with customization and immersion for those who enjoy those types of features. lotro has player housing its not great but still its there does that mean i want to make swtor like lotro? no.... taking nice features from other mmo's that made them enjoyable is just smart. we did it with wow without being a clone. so why not other games?.....

We have our ships.. What is wrong with that?? Why can't you live on your ship??

even an SWG type of customization for ships would be awesome, let me give u a example... like the look of the armor you are wearing? np.. drop it on the ground. /move forward 100.... /move up 100.. /move right 20... BAM armor suit on the wall! like collecting fluff?, or all the weapons you collected and liked the look of... your first colour crystals? up on the walls and roofs too! however you want them to be, some people... myself included. enjoy this type of immersion. if you dont like it you dont have to take part. how are ideas like this bad?

how are ideas like this bad?

It depends on the idea and the person.. I think chat bubbles are a bad idea.. I fail to understand the concept that chat looking like comic strip adds to immersion.. But that is me.. I just hope they make an option to turn it off.. Otherwise the majority of the gaming community is going to be upset..

I have seen player housing on SWG.. Essentially it is an education on the slums.. Empty houses just littering the landscape.. Who wants to look at that?? There is just absolutely no need for player housing like that when there are much better alternatives.. Like your ship..

Another idea that has been brought up is instanced housing.. Similar to how our ships hangers work.. We would be instanced into our own little apartment type place on our capital world.. No world space required.. I'm sorry.. I for one don't want the landscape littered with player housing.. It is just a bad idea.. I am not alone in this..

So.. That is how ideas like this are bad..

An official statement would be nice. Is it in the future of this game (please tell me it is)?

Hey ISDcaptain,

I forwarded this along to our Lead Designer, Damion Schubert, and this is our current statement on Player Housing:

“We’re not saying never, but it’s not on our immediate roadmap. If we were to expand on this in some direction, we would first focus on improving the degree that players can customize their ship interiors, but even that feature is a ways down the road.”

An official statement would be nice. Is it in the future of this game (please tell me it is)?

I never bothered with a house on swg, i found it a waste of time to be honest, what bioware should be doing instead of adding in useless crap like houses, is to fix all the problems they created, bring us the heroic combat they talked about and the whole 'use any spec with any companion and not feel like you made a mistake' thing they talked about.

I never bothered with a house on swg, i found it a waste of time to be honest, what bioware should be doing instead of adding in useless crap like houses, is to fix all the problems they created, bring us the heroic combat they talked about and the whole 'use any spec with any companion and not feel like you made a mistake' thing they talked about.

All gaming is a waste of time, adding housing is another feature which some players will be able to utilise to improve and fulfill their gaming experience.

Hey ISDcaptain,

 

I forwarded this along to our Lead Designer, Damion Schubert, and this is our current statement on Player Housing:

 

“We’re not saying never, but it’s not on our immediate roadmap. If we were to expand on this in some direction, we would first focus on improving the degree that players can customize their ship interiors, but even that feature is a ways down the road.”

Thank you. I would pay a year sub up front for more options to the ships, and more ships in general.

Happier than a wookie on a nude beach for doors to the personal room, usable beds to sleep in with an emote, chairs, and new ships in general, I opt out on the jedi fish ship for the Corellian light XS Freighter any day of any month.

And there you have it.

IF this ever gets done, redecorating the inside of ships COMES FIRST.

Its a polite way of saying "never say never, but this is as close to never as I can get".

And there you have it.

IF this ever gets done, redecorating the inside of ships COMES FIRST.

Its a polite way of saying "never say never, but this is as close to never as I can get".

Really? I read it as "We have time for f+++ naught atm, but we know you guys would like it. Never say never."

I don't want a ship, I want a house. Write that down, Damien.