Jump to content

Merc is TERRIBLE


Shredit

Recommended Posts

Stopped reading right there. The game is balanced around 8v8, not 1v1. Stop being a solo hero and work as a team and you will see the usefulness of your merc increase.

 

You havent' really played a Merc in 8 vs 8 ranked have you? You might as well wear a blinking neon sign with giant red letters reading "FREE KILL HERE" 'cause you'll get focused before anyone else and your team won't be able to do jack to save you. Maybe if you had multiple healers on you, guarded, all your dps teammates peeling ppl off you, but what's the point? you won't be able to kill anyone and all your team will do is buy you a few extra seconds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 753
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Please reroll a Van/PT or respec as a medic.

 

I cry everytime I join a WZ with a DPS commando/merc.

 

If they ever come up with dual spec option; I would be more likely to PvP in a healing spec. As is right now though; I PvE alone mostly. Don't do flashpoints or the other junk. Arsenal actually shines as far as getting things done quickly there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great post Archangel, it really explains the flaws of the Commando DPS quite well. Especially this segment right here:

 

As has been said, ANY class can perform well when left to free cast, and ANY ranged class can try and find nooks where they can increase the chance that they'll go unnoticed for awhile. But when sages are discovered they can run because that class was given kiting tools. When Gunslingers are discovered they can knockback, root, or just pop their immunity to everything but diversion shield so that you can't actually stop them from getting their damage out. Commandos can't run, we can't hide, and we damn sure don't have the survivability to sit there and take it, and THAT is the problem. We can take some focus off healers but only if those healers force feed us heals because Heavy Armor without a tank spec just doesn't stand up to much in this game, and the defensive cooldowns for troopers are absolutely abysmal.

 

and this:

 

The class is great for training you to use your environment because you don't have other tools to worry about, which also means you don't have any other tools BUT the environment to try and use. Once you gain those skills though and shift to a class that DOES have those other tools, you'll find your overall contributions go up. To the dude who says his commando contributes as much as his sent: On what basis do you consider yourself a top 10% sent? Honest question. If it's that you do top 10% damage then dude you are missing out on some of the great things sent has to offer. Awe, much like Flash Grenade, is more team utility packed into that one 60s cooldown ability than lies in all of Commando's arsenal, especially after the stock strike knockback nerf. This doesn't even take into account Inspiration or Transcendence. Transcendence is just an absolutely amazing ability in top tier PVP. PVP is more than just damage.

 

The main things being the lack of survivability and the lack of team utility. Survivability could be ignored if and only if a Commando brought something valuable to the table from a team perspective. This is something I've always fully supported for DPS Commando, specifically. Inspiration, I always thought, would make so much more sense on a Trooper than a Sentinel. Or something like the Scrambling Field of Gunslingers. There are plenty of mechanics you could give them to bring a team utility into the picture -- and that is something this class will desperately need if it wants a legitamate chance of being taken seriously in ranked. You could do something as complicated as making a wall (or line) on the ground that enemies cannot cross and must go around until it expires or as simple as an AoE which does something meaningful for the team (players inside of the circle have fasted resource regen, have more healing received, cannot be lept to or pushed interrupted, or pretty much any other group utility you can think of).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

First of all how often do you actually run into people of the opposite faction while levelling up? Alderaan and Voss are the only placed you really see people without having to actively go out looking for them because the quest zones in those areas aren't more or less completely separated...Second. It's a Roleplay server. Roleplayers are the people that organise open world PvP events. My server recently had a huge one in Tatooine that lasted for several weeks.

Fairly often since the server merger, depending on the time of day and location - on Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss, etc. Alderaan is where a lot of imp 50s like to camp lowbies for some reason (on my server anyway), and I almost always encounter imps on my datacron runs from Tat onwards. It's a regular part of the gameplay, and quite fun for every other AC (except for the camping 50s). I really enjoy it on my Tactics Vanguard, much less so on my commando. Sry but you're still on a PvE server, so my point stands re optional PvP there. A merc/commando on a PvP server doesn't get a duel request before getting ganked while doing his/her class quests. Hence my suggestion that new players get a tooltip when they're presented with their AC choice, at least until the AC is given a fighting chance in PvP when in the hands of a typical player, which it currently doesn't have.

Edited by klham
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, can anyone who believes that "Merc is fine" explain:

 

1) Why would you take an Arsenal Mercenary over a Marksmanship Sniper?

 

2) Why would you take a Bodyguard Mercenary over a Medicine Operative? (for healing)

 

3) Why would you take a Pyrotech Mercenary over a Pyrotech Powertech?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So, can anyone who believes that "Merc is fine" explain:

 

1) Why would you take an Arsenal Mercenary over a Marksmanship Sniper?

 

2) Why would you take a Bodyguard Mercenary over a Medicine Operative? (for healing)

 

3) Why would you take a Pyrotech Mercenary over a Pyrotech Powertech?

 

1) When you cant find a sniper.

 

2) When you cant find a medicine operative.

 

3) Actually I play my Pyro PT with my buddy's Pyro Merc, we make great combo (havent tried in rateds). Basically the merc's regular rotation and attacks enables your railshot from 30m away for the pyro PT like pre-range nerf. But yea I own his damage done everytime, even more severe when hes under pressure.

Edited by warultima
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You havent' really played a Merc in 8 vs 8 ranked have you? You might as well wear a blinking neon sign with giant red letters reading "FREE KILL HERE" 'cause you'll get focused before anyone else and your team won't be able to do jack to save you. Maybe if you had multiple healers on you, guarded, all your dps teammates peeling ppl off you, but what's the point? you won't be able to kill anyone and all your team will do is buy you a few extra seconds.

 

Mercs/Commandos need to respec to Assault/Pyro. I can solo all but 2 classes 1v1. The only 2 classes that beat me hands down are PT/VG and Tanksin/Shadow tank. If you still have trouble after going Pyro/Assault, then it's a L2P issue. I top dps in all WZ's I enter. I make people regret force leaping to me. But I will admit, in 8v8 ranked, it's a whole different ball game. YOU DO NOT TAKE A COMMANDO UNLESS HE IS A HEALER. It's not the player at that level, it's the class. I learned it the hard way. I can take on all the top ranked teams sents/mara's 1v1 and dominate them. But in a group dynamic, Commando brings nothing "clutch" to the table. You should always opt to take a VG/PT over a commando dps. It's just the way it is. I can't get into detail as there is a lot but for the most part, it's due to the fact that the VG/PT's burst is a lot faster than the commando because the VG/PT's attacks are all instant. The gives them all the advantage. Nuff said.

 

So it all boils down to, what do you want to do end-game? I have so much fun on my Commando. I leveled a VG as well for the rWZ's, but now I could care less about ranked. So I'm back on my Commando destroying pugs. The OP stating that he loses 1v1 against every class, that's just a bad player. Not "bad"... It's a harsh word for someone I don't know but you are not trying hard enough. There are tons of forum posts, guides, and videos that will show you how to play better. I went thru tons of reading and min/max'ing to get to where I'm at now. And even still I know I cannot do rwz's with my Commando and I don't really care.

 

 

So, can anyone who believes that "Merc is fine" explain:

 

1) Why would you take an Arsenal Mercenary over a Marksmanship Sniper?

 

2) Why would you take a Bodyguard Mercenary over a Medicine Operative? (for healing)

 

3) Why would you take a Pyrotech Mercenary over a Pyrotech Powertech?

 

DPS Merc/commando, no matter the spec, is not suitable for ranked. We all know that (well those of us that have actually played ranked with our dps mercs/commandos). So if that is your goal, do not roll the class unless you plan to go heals. Please note: There are pugs going into RWZ's and you can probably stomp them with any class, but doesn't mean since you beat them with your tracer missles that you are now viable in ranked against anyone. Don't fall into that trap.

 

 

TL;DR - Stop posting these threads baddies.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But in a group dynamic, Commando brings nothing "clutch" to the table. You should always opt to take a VG/PT over a commando dps. It's just the way it is. I can't get into detail as there is a lot but for the most part, it's due to the fact that the VG/PT's burst is a lot faster than the commando because the VG/PT's attacks are all instant. The gives them all the advantage. Nuff said.

I would agree with this *up until* 1.4. I think things are substantially different with the changes post 1.4.

 

PT no longer have the range. They don't have a great deal of survivability, so when they have to fight in melee range exclusively, their livespan is reduced. Also, for burst, the new decoupled cooldown for sticky grenade and assault plastique is a game changer. You can easily get a 15k burst (within 4-5 seconds) with commando, at 30m range. That burst has also saved me quite a bit with melee attacking me as well... I don't have a lot of time once they're on me, but once I take 12k off their HP in 3-4 GCDs, then all of a sudden they lose interest when they realize I've already kited out of melee range.

 

I also personally think as an assault commando, I bring a lot to the team with spot healing. I'll heal the ball carrier, I'll heal the other attacker/defender at my turret if he's at 10% health, etc, etc. My primary job is DPS (and I'll consistently do 300-500k, even in ranked)... but it's rare I end a match with less than 25k opportunistic healing (and sometimes as much as 80k).

 

Anyways, commandos kick serious butt in regular wz, and I think we're very competitive in ranked as well. I'm not saying we're OP, but we get it done.

Edited by heechJunzi
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mercs/Commandos need to respec to Assault/Pyro. I can solo all but 2 classes 1v1. The only 2 classes that beat me hands down are PT/VG and Tanksin/Shadow tank. If you still have trouble after going Pyro/Assault, then it's a L2P issue. I top dps in all WZ's I enter. I make people regret force leaping to me. But I will admit, in 8v8 ranked, it's a whole different ball game. YOU DO NOT TAKE A COMMANDO UNLESS HE IS A HEALER. It's not the player at that level, it's the class. I learned it the hard way. I can take on all the top ranked teams sents/mara's 1v1 and dominate them. But in a group dynamic, Commando brings nothing "clutch" to the table. You should always opt to take a VG/PT over a commando dps. It's just the way it is. I can't get into detail as there is a lot but for the most part, it's due to the fact that the VG/PT's burst is a lot faster than the commando because the VG/PT's attacks are all instant. The gives them all the advantage. Nuff said.

 

So it all boils down to, what do you want to do end-game? I have so much fun on my Commando. I leveled a VG as well for the rWZ's, but now I could care less about ranked. So I'm back on my Commando destroying pugs. The OP stating that he loses 1v1 against every class, that's just a bad player. Not "bad"... It's a harsh word for someone I don't know but you are not trying hard enough. There are tons of forum posts, guides, and videos that will show you how to play better. I went thru tons of reading and min/max'ing to get to where I'm at now. And even still I know I cannot do rwz's with my Commando and I don't really care.

 

 

 

 

DPS Merc/commando, no matter the spec, is not suitable for ranked. We all know that (well those of us that have actually played ranked with our dps mercs/commandos). So if that is your goal, do not roll the class unless you plan to go heals. Please note: There are pugs going into RWZ's and you can probably stomp them with any class, but doesn't mean since you beat them with your tracer missles that you are now viable in ranked against anyone. Don't fall into that trap.

 

 

TL;DR - Stop posting these threads baddies.

 

This is actually a very good post and good advice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fairly often since the server merger, depending on the time of day and location - on Tat, Alderaan, Hoth, Voss, etc. Alderaan is where a lot of imp 50s like to camp lowbies for some reason (on my server anyway), and I almost always encounter imps on my datacron runs from Tat onwards. It's a regular part of the gameplay, and quite fun for every other AC (except for the camping 50s). I really enjoy it on my Tactics Vanguard, much less so on my commando. Sry but you're still on a PvE server, so my point stands re optional PvP there. A merc/commando on a PvP server doesn't get a duel request before getting ganked while doing his/her class quests. Hence my suggestion that new players get a tooltip when they're presented with their AC choice, at least until the AC is given a fighting chance in PvP when in the hands of a typical player, which it currently doesn't have.

 

I still don't get the logic where getting ganked while 1-49 instantly makes you great at Ranked 8v8 warzones at Lv50 is coming from.

 

But I guess going to Alderaan and Tatooine to go and gank some low level players that are questing is what the CoD kiddies think the game is balanced around now.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about this?

 

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

 

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

 

/discuss

Edited by Asturias
Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about this?

 

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

 

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

 

/discuss

 

I think that would kill pyro merc by the heat and not provide anything of value to arsenal, other than an instant ability to proc power barrier.

Edited by Technohic
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think that would kill pyro merc by the heat and not provide anything of value to arsenal, other than an instant ability to proc power barrier.

 

Maybe they could incorporate something to lower the heat in the Pyro tree.

 

Call it "Power Shot Management".

 

1 point decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 50% (Lowers it from 25 to 20

 

2 points decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 100% (Lowers it from 20 to 15)

 

Something to think about but I would love it if this ability was a instant cast :D

Edited by Asturias
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would agree with this *up until* 1.4. I think things are substantially different with the changes post 1.4.

 

PT no longer have the range. They don't have a great deal of survivability, so when they have to fight in melee range exclusively, their livespan is reduced. Also, for burst, the new decoupled cooldown for sticky grenade and assault plastique is a game changer. You can easily get a 15k burst (within 4-5 seconds) with commando, at 30m range. That burst has also saved me quite a bit with melee attacking me as well... I don't have a lot of time once they're on me, but once I take 12k off their HP in 3-4 GCDs, then all of a sudden they lose interest when they realize I've already kited out of melee range.

 

I also personally think as an assault commando, I bring a lot to the team with spot healing. I'll heal the ball carrier, I'll heal the other attacker/defender at my turret if he's at 10% health, etc, etc. My primary job is DPS (and I'll consistently do 300-500k, even in ranked)... but it's rare I end a match with less than 25k opportunistic healing (and sometimes as much as 80k).

 

Anyways, commandos kick serious butt in regular wz, and I think we're very competitive in ranked as well. I'm not saying we're OP, but we get it done.

 

The only issue is that burst is still slower than a VG/PT. When trying to take down healers in ranked, that will cost you. Plus, VG/PT's have a pull. In ranked, when we jump on a healer, 9 times out of 10, his tank will jump/leap to start aoe taunting. That's when I run out, and pull him and cryo. His healer now has 2 sents and another VG beating on him with no shield for a good 3 secs... He's dead. I've tried doing that same thing with my commando but the KB is so sketchy and it's not far enough to break the guard. Sometimes both the healer and tank go flying off in the same direction even when I plant myself right in between them. Plus you don't want the melee having to chase their target.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(... PTs don't have range... Mercs have range... Range good... Mercs good.

 

Range is little more than a comforting illusion in RWZs (albeit a little less so for slingers/snipers with cover). So much melee has the ability to close the distance at will, that range is essentially just a method of avoiding some AOE. Unfortunately the drawbacks of that range (eg. channels and cast times) make bringing some classes a costly decision.

 

I'd still really like to see some videos of these RWZs that people are allegedly flattening with their Mercs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about this?

 

There is a lot of unnecessary skills you don't use at a higher level and since "Power Shot" is part of the mechanics for both Pyro and Arsenal, why not make it a instant cast but increase the heat to 25 instead of where it is currently at which is 16.

 

This would make Pyro more mobile and give flexiability to Arsenal spec players.

 

/discuss

 

My brother and I were just discussing this last night (as well as force lightning for the sorcs). This would be a good balancing feature. They would have to revert the 1.2 changes to Powershot to make it worth it (and not to tip the scale for Bodyguards). remember 1.2 did this:

 

•Power Shot has been rebalanced. It now generates 16 Heat, has a 2-second activation time, and deals approximately 10% less damage.

•Muzzle Fluting no longer reduces Heat costs. It now reduces the activation time of Power Shot and Tracer Missile by .5 seconds.

 

If they reversed this Powershot would generate 25 heat making it not as beneficial for Bodyguards (but available - even improved if they purchase muzzle fluting) but easily controlled by Arsenal and Pyro. Activation time would return to 1.5 and it would gain 10% damage back making it worth it again. Muzzle Fluting would again be a heat reduction for the skill.

 

All is no gain unless they also reverse the 1.4 Nerf to Electro Dart, Sweltering Heat, and Rocket Punch.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Range is little more than a comforting illusion in RWZs (albeit a little less so for slingers/snipers with cover). So much melee has the ability to close the distance at will, that range is essentially just a method of avoiding some AOE. Unfortunately the drawbacks of that range (eg. channels and cast times) make bringing some classes a costly decision.

 

I'd still really like to see some videos of these RWZs that people are allegedly flattening with their Mercs.

I make it a commitment to maintain range. I've seen your videos, and I see you like to mix it up at any kind of range. You should re-roll PT, more akin to your style.

 

I would venture to guess i do more than 50% of my damage at range > 20m. That improves my survivability. If melee jumps on me I kite, kite, and kite some more. No other class kites like we can with our DoT and insta-cast HIB/AP/SG. There's no way I could play gunnery; only channeled ability I use is full auto, and the goal is just to proc my HIB (so no loss if it's interrupted).

 

If two melee at 100% hp jump on me, of course I'm dead. I accept that, story of life for most non-stealth classes.

 

As far as ranked, I'm competitive, I don't claim to dominate. I still get to use my rotation in full, get my damage and kills. I rarely die more than 10 times unless it's a total rout. I'm gonna pickup an external drive later, see if I can figure out how to record some wz's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They're certainly not horrible in standards, I completely agree, and I've said this time and time again.

 

But only because in standards, there are SO many bad players.

 

I'd argue that given equal skill and equal gear, you are better off with ANY other DPS in a ranked warzone over a Merc/Commando.

 

Any.

 

EDIT:

 

VERY aware of the ones on my server, and have a passing acquaintance with some other servers'. Why, do you know of any top rated teams running DPS mercs in their A-Team? Please let me know who and where - I'd be incredibly surprised.

 

I just don't think you should make blanket statements when you're not aware.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Useless bragging for e-peen is not needed in a community that already knows that this simply isnt true, unless you are just trolling in wich case im sorry for being so easily duped

 

You ppl really need to learn to play your class. I see commandos/Mercs on my server dish out 4-600k in damage in various maps. I know that's not much but it's respectable especially during RWZ. So there was some minor changes, big whoop. Learn to play and stop complaining about being "nerfed"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Maybe they could incorporate something to lower the heat in the Pyro tree.

 

Call it "Power Shot Management".

 

1 point decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 50% (Lowers it from 25 to 20

 

2 points decreases Power Shot heat requirement by 100% (Lowers it from 20 to 15)

 

Something to think about but I would love it if this ability was a instant cast :D

 

personally i think you need to take away HS missles and make it a 30% kill shot and replace the 31 point talent with another instant cast ability to make them a little more mobil.

 

just my 2 cents.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't think you should make blanket statements when you're not aware.

 

How is 'I've yet to see' a blanket statement?

 

For the second time now:

 

If you ARE aware of any top rated teams using them, please let me know who and where - I'd be incredibly surprised.

 

I make it a commitment to maintain range. I've seen your videos, and I see you like to mix it up at any kind of range. You should re-roll PT, more akin to your style.

 

I certainly don't *want* to mix it up in melee range - sometimes however we need to use all the tools we have been provided, which includes concussion charge - to help peel from healers (I think the last video I uploaded has me doing this a bit to at least stem the tide somewhat). (EDIT: When engaged by jumpers, it is often advantageous to kite them inside their minimum jump distance)

 

You can get away with it in standards. Against competent RWZs, you don't get to choose to avoid the jump smash train as a commando, and you certainly don't survive it. Most other classes have at least some options to do so. Some kind of escape tool and/or added survivability would go a LONG way towards fixing the class.

 

I think 're-roll PT' is probably good advice for ANY DPS merc/commando, but I'd really like to see the AC fixed instead.

Edited by Jherad
Link to comment
Share on other sites


×
×
  • Create New...