I absolutely agree with Dasty here, Galactic Command, after all the changes and tweaks, was a system that allowed you to gear up with any activity ingame. You could do it through PvP, Dailies, Heroics, OPS, basically whatever you'd like to do you could do to gain CXP. Whatever type of player you were, all the paths were open to you.

 

Ossus, while an amazing daily area, ended that.

 

With the Ossus gear the only way to get what you need for the gear is PvE. You can't do PvP, you can't so story, you can't do the other heroics if you want to gear up. Sure, you can go do all the dailies but they've only become a CXP farm to get Command Crates which in turn are solely used now to churn out Unassembled Components. That's what Galactic Command has been reduced to and what all the other content ingame has been reduced to: meat for the Ossus gear grind, nothing more and nothing less.

 

That's what Dasty is pointing out, that before Jedi Under Siege you could walk any path in Galactic Command and you'd progress your gearing up the way you want it to. Now there is only one way, a PvE grind and all the rest of the endgame content is merely meat for it, it's no longer a valid gear progression path on its own.

LOL. I find myself now in this odd quagmire of "agreeing" with Olag, who I almost never agree with, and disagreeing with Dasty who I nearly always agree with, and all over an implementation that I don't agree with .

It's because there are a few convos happening at once. I won't try to sort that out for now. But I will point you to my previous post(s) on this because I think the biggest problem with the new tier of gear is that the devs have poorly communicated (and in some narrow cases, poorly-implemented) their stated objectives with this gear tier. 5.10 gear was never intended to be needed for anything other than MM GOTM. Devs stated this -- it's intentional. Without understanding that, nothing else makes sense.

I don't have an opinion on whether that intention was good or bad (I lean toward good simply if it's true that MM GOTM raiders have something new to do, but I know nothing about anything related to Ops. I like there to be something for everyone). What I do have an issue with is that the intention of limiting to MM GOTM fails when the same gear can be used in unbolstered PvP. No other part of the game needs this gear or will be adversely affected by it - just MM GOTM (intentionally) and PvP (unintentionally, but now intentionally ). And it's for that reason, that I don't as much mind the "grind" (which was intended to be "ludicrous" outside of MM GOTM ops), because I can ignore it, which I'm doing (again, unlike the past -- and with the noted caveat of PvP)...

5.10 gear was never intended to be needed for anything other than MM GOTM. Devs stated this -- it's intentional. Without understanding that, nothing else makes sense.

Well, the initial heavy RNG element of Galactic Command was intended to be fun and look how that turned out...

The devs might have intended for the gear to be only useful for the MM GotM ops, but that's not what's happening in reality as I said before. Their intentions are being rendered obsolete as we speak, with so many people working now on obtaining the gear for purposes outside of that operation. It's no longer about what it was intended for but what's it being used for right now.

If you want to stay competitive then you need the gear ingame, regardless of whether it had only been intended for 1 MM operation. And even if that is the case, that's even a worse strategy. Introduce gear to be able to do 1 MM operation? Well that's not very efficient now is it, spending precious resources on developing gear for 1 single MM operation while leaving the rest of the game unattended...

That is not true, the argument "if you don't do MM GotM you don't need the gear" is absolutely false. For example, staying competitive in PvP isn't just relying pon skill, gear plays a huge factor as well. Sure we have bolster, but that only goes up to 252 and we have 258 as the highest gear now. If you want to compete, you need the gear as well.

....

Again, you're missing my point. I'm certainly not one to argue "if you don't do ops/ranked, you don't need BiS." I don't believe that for a minute. I'm an above-average PvPer and vanilla story altaholic. But I always like to have the best shinies:p. And we totally agree on the PvP issue (easily resolvable by bolster to 258). To be clear, I'm not defending this rollout (multiple conversations are crossing on different points).

But my point is that the devs themselves, in unprecedented fashion, said this specific tier will not be needed for any other content in game. This is a departure from every other past tier. I strongly encourage you (if you haven't) to read my post which breaks down the livestream, or watch the livestream yourself. You will see where Eric says, modes of gearing outside of MM GOTM will be "somewhat ludicrous and limited" -- intentionally. You will also see my point about PvP -- and this post and others helped lead us to get at least bolster to 252 (it was 248:eek:)...

I'm sorry, but you did misinterpret.

 

I've never before seen gear that is intended to be used for all play areas of the game gated to a single planet, a single Op and a single boss. That is unusual and as Dasty already mentioned a departure from what is in the CXP system.

 

- Wherever you play, you can buy mods to gear yourself up to level 65 without any fuss. You can earn credits to buy those mods in any quest, Op, flashpoint, or playing the GTN.

 

- The minute you hit level IIRC 66, it doesn't matter where you are in the game or what you're playing, the NPCs will begin to drop Outlander gear that you can use to upgrade beyond what the level 65 mods offer. Again, this happens in Ops, in flashpoints, and everywhere else.

 

- The minute you hit level 70, you start earning CXP from all activities- as Dasty noted in referencing the Dulfy guide - for boxes for gear and UCs. You can run around the game killing random NPCs, or do Ops, or whatever, and you will still earn.

 

- When PvP gear was a thing it was earned only via PvP activities, as far as I know, but it wasn't just one Huttball map or warzone.

 

This is very different from what is now being offered, which is universal gear that is only obtainable from completing a very limited range of activities on a single planet with that planet's currency.

 

And in past situations where there's been planetary currency it's not been "opened up." You can't do a thing with Ziost currency outside of Ziost or use Iokath shards anywhere else., and there are some instances where they eliminated or almost eliminated the ability to earn the currency while not making the vendor items available in another way (ie, the vendors who still take an obsolete currency for companion gifts that you can find on DK).

None of the examples you provided started out offerjng the BIS gear from those activities. It generally took a minimum of 6 months for an update to be implemented that opened up BIS gear universally through ops, fps, cxp, etc.

Ossus hasnt been around for 6 months yet, so expect the expected gate until then, see what changes are opened up, and then see what complaints really have a premise that goes against their consistently implemented systems.

PvPers have been complaining in droves about how the gear is necessary to keep up.

PvPers have been complaining about how gear is necessary to keep up, but without any measuable statistics or data that support this theory.

Again, you're missing my point. I'm certainly not one to argue "if you don't do ops/ranked, you don't need BiS." I don't believe that for a minute. I'm an above-average PvPer and vanilla story altaholic. But I always like to have the best shinies:p. And we totally agree on the PvP issue (easily resolvable by bolster to 258). To be clear, I'm not defending this rollout (multiple conversations are crossing on different points).

 

But my point is that the devs themselves, in unprecedented fashion, said this specific tier will not be needed for any other content in game. This is a departure from every other past tier. I strongly encourage you (if you haven't) to read my post which breaks down the livestream, or watch the livestream yourself. You will see where Eric says, modes of gearing outside of MM GOTM will be "somewhat ludicrous and limited" -- intentionally. You will also see my point about PvP -- and this post and others helped lead us to get at least bolster to 252 (it was 248:eek:)...

And you are missing mine. Intention does not erase what's happening in reality. It's my intention to be crowned Emperor one day but do you think reality is going to be helpful here?

The devs might have said you don't need the gear outside of the operation, that might have been their intention. But that intention is no longer valid because of what's happening in reality, of what's actually happening ingame. People aren't working to get the gear only for the MM operation, they're working to obtain it for all the areas in the game. This very fact renders the initial intention of the developers obsolete, just like reality renders my intention of becoming Emperor a mere fantasy. Sure, great, it's nice that it has been their intention for the gear to be solely used for the MM ops, but people aren't getting it for that operation only, people are using it for all the areas ingame. What does that mean? The initial intention is useless and needs to be cast aside, as reality dictates different intentions are necessary.

Well, the initial heavy RNG element of Galactic Command was intended to be fun and look how that turned out...

It IS fun, for many people. Dont falsely project your feelings about it as the majority view.

LOL. I find myself now in this odd quagmire of "agreeing" with Olag, who I almost never agree with, and disagreeing with Dasty who I nearly always agree with, and all over an implementation that I don't agree with .

 

It's because there are a few convos happening at once. I won't try to sort that out for now. But I will point you to my previous post(s) on this because I think the biggest problem with the new tier of gear is that the devs have poorly communicated (and in some narrow cases, poorly-implemented) their stated objectives with this gear tier. 5.10 gear was never intended to be needed for anything other than MM GOTM. Devs stated this -- it's intentional. Without understanding that, nothing else makes sense.

 

I don't have an opinion on whether that intention was good or bad (I lean toward good simply if it's true that MM GOTM raiders have something new to do, but I know nothing about anything related to Ops. I like there to be something for everyone). What I do have an issue with is that the intention of limiting to MM GOTM fails when the same gear can be used in unbolstered PvP. No other part of the game needs this gear or will be adversely affected by it - just MM GOTM (intentionally) and PvP (unintentionally, but now intentionally ). And it's for that reason, that I don't as much mind the "grind" (which was intended to be "ludicrous" outside of MM GOTM ops), because I can ignore it, which I'm doing (again, unlike the past -- and with the noted caveat of PvP)...

Devs say things all the time which are not true, or at least are highly disingenuous - to state the gear is not intended for players outside NiM GOTM is just silly.

The evidence is clear this is just another gear treadmill added to the game intended to keep all players occupied for some time.

If that were not the case, this gear would not be available through other means and PVP would either cap stats at 248 or bolster to 258.

Also they did not need to add a new gear tier to release NiM GOTM - they could have tuned it for BIS 248 gear while dropping the same stuff other NiM Ops drop - but I agree that probably would have resulted in even fewer players bothering with the content.

Also rather than spend resources on NiM GOTM, which very few are even attempting, they should have spent their limited resource hours delivering a high quality release instead of introducing a bunch of new bugs.

Oh and all parties have valid points with respect to gear acquisition in the past.

At many times, the very best gear has been locked to certain activities - though those activities have tended to be the latest operation on the highest difficulty.

At the same time, equivalent gear or the best available outside operations has generally been available through multiple means, with the galactic command system up to 5.10 the epitome of 'do whatever, get BIS gear'.

Oh and lastly - no content was scaled to 248, and very little was scaled to the original 5.0 GC max 242 gear either - so the whole 'no content is being scaled' argument just doesn't hold water with respect to the developers claiming this gear isn't another intended gear grind.

PvPers have been complaining in droves about how the gear is necessary to keep up.

 

The gear makes other play areas easier, such as anything beyond KOTET which is not level locked or scaled.

 

Technically a story player didn't "need" 248 gear either, but by having CXP be earnable in all areas of the game, and having bonuses and achievements for getting toons from each class to level 300, they made incentives for story players to aim for it.

 

If you claim that the gear is only needed for one Op, it's even MORE problematic. They've laid out an entire gear system, dailies and a weekly reward for one Op while providing no incentive for anyone else to play through Ossus and ailenating every other group of players. That's creating the MMO equivalent of the Spruce Goose, with a tremendous amount of wasted time and resources that could have better been spent making a Tier V that was accessible to all.

I'm not defending the implementation. I don't deny it's problematic. I'm only pointing out that from the very beginning, getting 258 was intended to be ludicrous and limited unless you ran MM GOTM ops (and I don't know how ludicrous it is running those ops either). Unlike past tiers, no other content will be scaled to even 252, let alone 258 (others can weigh in if that's in fact true - but devs said that was the plan explicitly). My key point is that is the lens we have to view this through. So saying "it's too grindy" will have little sway with devs who actually admitted and boasted that it was intended to be ludicrously grindy if you don't do MM GOTM.

My problem remains PvP. This gear was supposed to be "quarantined" to MM GOTM, with an insane and ludicrous path for non MM GOTM raiders. This was somewhat palatable for me when I thought I could just ignore it if I wanted to. But as a PvPer, I cannot (but I'm ignoring it anyway). Bolster to 258 fixes the issue. Since they've refused to do that (but I'll keep pushing), it does raise some concerns about what their intentions really are...

It IS fun, for many people. Dont falsely project your feelings about it as the majority view.

Oh then that is why Galactic Command has been the most criticised element of SWTOR in the last few years? Surely all the negativity, anger and massive outrage that forced the devs to change how Galactic Command works has been a figment of my imagination

And you are missing mine. Intention does not erase what's happening in reality. It's my intention to be crowned Emperor one day but do you think reality is going to be helpful here?

 

The devs might have said you don't need the gear outside of the operation, that might have been their intention. But that intention is no longer valid because of what's happening in reality, of what's actually happening ingame. People aren't working to get the gear only for the MM operation, they're working to obtain it for all the areas in the game. This very fact renders the initial intention of the developers obsolete, just like reality renders my intention of becoming Emperor a mere fantasy. Sure, great, it's nice that it has been their intention for the gear to be solely used for the MM ops, but people aren't getting it for that operation only, people are using it for all the areas ingame. What does that mean? The initial intention is useless and needs to be cast aside, as reality dictates different intentions are necessary.

In reality, guilds that are capable are using the gear to clear NIM gods. Thus, the gear is working as intended.

As for all the others using/gathering the gear, its available to everyone willing to acquire it, but does not create any unintentional imbalance, as BW has stated.

And you are missing mine. Intention does not erase what's happening in reality. It's my intention to be crowned Emperor one day but do you think reality is going to be helpful here?

 

The devs might have said you don't need the gear outside of the operation, that might have been their intention. But that intention is no longer valid because of what's happening in reality, of what's actually happening ingame. People aren't working to get the gear only for the MM operation, they're working to obtain it for all the areas in the game. This very fact renders the initial intention of the developers obsolete, just like reality renders my intention of becoming Emperor a mere fantasy. Sure, great, it's nice that it has been their intention for the gear to be solely used for the MM ops, but people aren't getting it for that operation only, people are using it for all the areas ingame. What does that mean? The initial intention is useless and needs to be cast aside, as reality dictates different intentions are necessary.

Well, I suppose I agree with this. But I go back to this: if they devs say "we want 258 to be super grindy" and then the players respond with "we think getting 258 is super grindy," is that going to move the needle? Yes, we can implore the devs to revisit whether their original intention was appropriate or not (all for that, tough battle tho). We can ask them to reconsider. But I think the best way (based on past experiences) to get changes is to point to "unintended" consequences (PvP is one, or is it?). Maybe its unsubs, or alt play being limited, or even the min-max issue. I don't know. I'm just not sure that in this context, "it's too grindy" will get attention...

Oh then that is why Galactic Command has been the most criticised element of SWTOR in the last few years? Surely all the negativity, anger and massive outrage that forced the devs to change how Galactic Command works has been a figment of my imagination

The same person can make 10000 posts complaining about a topic, but it doesnt mean that 10000 people are complaining. Many of the posts with complaints were from the same group of posters who felt their voice wasnt being heard, but nothing on these foruns has ever universally illustrated that GC was more criticized, hated, or disliked more than any other element.

And before you use the age old, tired "argument" about people leaving the game after 5.0, remember that you dont have any data, and i am pretty certain that more people left SWTOR between launch and 2.0 than after 5.0, which would mean that the original swtor is the most highly criticized part of SWTOR in history, despite the vanilla stories and everything.

As for your GC comment, how do you know those changes were not planned in advance? You give player feedback way too much credit when most of the moves BW makes are history repeating itself, even the positive changes.

...

Oh and all parties have valid points with respect to gear acquisition in the past.

 

At many times, the very best gear has been locked to certain activities - though those activities have tended to be the latest operation on the highest difficulty.

 

At the same time, equivalent gear or the best available outside operations has generally been available through multiple means, with the galactic command system up to 5.10 the epitome of 'do whatever, get BIS gear'.

....

I agree with most of your post. Let me just highlight the above here (which I also agree with). I think the reason here that things are different is the really peculiar way 258 even came into being. And, the admittedly bad communication/follow up from the devs on their stated aims.

Let me just, again, point out why this is different. Because in past situations, devs have at least pretended that the goals where to apply to multiple different areas of content. The post below goes through the livestream (this was pre-launch) and highlights what the devs stated they wanted. We don't need to agree (and probably much of this has failed in implementation). But this is the backdrop we have to view 258 gear against - we simply cannot just point to past situations in isolation...

With apologies for (yet another) 5.10 PvP thread (I know there are some here who will pounce on that ), I felt it was necessary to cogently lay out the argument for why bolster to 258 is the only legitimate solution to the PvP gearing issues of 5.10 (discussed below) separately from arguments about other related issues. But in doing so, I felt it was important to use the devs own words and descriptions of their rationale to support the case – leaving out all speculative bases and just focusing on what the devs themselves have communicated. So using the

and attempting point out the portions of the stream that make the references, the following is a clear analysis of why anything less than bolster to 258 makes no sense for 5.10 using the devs own words.

 

Why Is There Now a Master Mode (MM) Gods From the Machine (GFTM) Operation?

Because Keith wanted to have one. (~14:40). It’s really that simple. I understand that answer is circular, and begs many more questions, but that's the answer we were given -- and the purpose of this post is to just rely on the devs own words.

 

Why Is There a New Gear Tier?

Because of the new difficulty of the MM content, which is now scaled to 248 augs, with at least 252 gear required for each boss (~18:40), a new gear tier was needed. The only content in the game that will require this gear is the MM GFTM content. As such, if you are an exclusively PvE player who doesn’t intend to do this OP on MM, you can avoid dealing with this gear tier entirely (more on that below)

 

Crafting Is the Fastest Way to Get This New Gear Tier, But…

Crafting is not only the fastest source, but it’s also the "best source" for gearing because you will get a BoE version of the Tier 5 gear (~27:30). However, the devs have "tied crafting into the MM Operation directly" (~27:20), meaning that:

 

Crafting Components for Tier 5 Gear Only Come From the GFTM Bosses

The devs explained that the crafting components to make the Tier 5 gear only comes from GFTM bosses (~30:20). You specifically cannot obtain these components from any other content in the game, PvP or otherwise.

 

PvP Is a "Somewhat Ludicrous and Limited Way" to Earn Tier 5 Gear

A path to gearing in 5.10 is by collecting and exchanging unassembled components (UCs) for masterwork shards and selling them to a reputation vendor. However, if you choose this approach, you are taking the "ludicrous and limited" way to gearing due to a number of throttles introduced by the devs to specifically prevent this from be a faster way to gearing than MM GFTM (~29:40). I will not rehash all of the throttles here, though Dulfy lays this out well (as usual). Again, as discussed, the devs want the MM GFTM bosses to be the fastest way to gearing.

 

Though Not Ludicrous as PvP, Other Gearing Options Are Intentionally Slower Than MM GFTM Ops

This should be no surprise. The gear is specifically intended for people completing GFTM in MM and no one else. In addition, gear obtained this way is BoP. Still, the key here is that the gear can be obtained in other ways besides the GFTM Ops, but these modes (other than the “somewhat ludicrous” PvP method) are all PvE modes. In addition, the masterwork shards vendor has a reputation requirement (28:50) which serves as additional gatekeeping – reputation which seems to be only earned by completing the weekly Ossus missions (meaning that PvPer will likely have to do PvE content as well to get gear via UCs).

 

CONCLUSIONS WHICH FLOW FROM THE DEVS' STATEMENTS

 

With Bolster Set to 248, PvPers of All Levels (Hardcore, Casual, Regs, Ranked) Will Need Tier 5 Gear

This is really an inescapable conclusion of the devs design choices (not just starting with 5.10). Tier 5 gear will find its way into PvP, both in ranked and in unranked, making this gear that was only intended for GFTM MM Ops a factor (I believe unintentionally) in PvP.

 

This isn’t to say there is no upside to adding a gearing grind to PvP (I don’t share this view, but I can understand why some PvPers would want to have some gear to strive for). But, as implemented, this gear really can’t be earned through PvP other than through “ludicrous” methods that still also require PvE (e.g. at least for reputation and max possible shards).

 

Furthermore, unlike casual PvE, casual PvPers cannot avoid confronting this gear. This means that even casual PvPers will have to grind out this gear or be destroyed (both in regs and ranked), needlessly exacerbating an already broken PvP gearing system for casual players.

 

PvErs (Other than MM Ops) Will Be Able to Avoid This Tier Entirely, PvPers Will Not

At a minimum, these PvErs will be able to earn this gear slowly, or just skip it altogether without any effect on their preferred style of play. PvPers will not have this option (again, this isn't really about whether it's good or bad to be exclusively PvE or PvP, it's about not having the option to skip this tier of gear where it's not designed for the content you choose to play).

 

It's also important to note that this isn't an opinion about the merits of having this new tier of gear at all, or about the methods available for attaining the gear (I leave it to others to say how they feel about the methods themselves). That's simply NOT the issue. The issue is that casual PvPers cannot avoid having to deal with this tier of gear, which was not at all intended (by the devs own words) for PvP, and so they must ludicrously grind for it to be able to continue to enjoy casual PvP unless the following happens:

 

Bolster to BiS (258) Is the Best Solution, Given the Devs Stated Goals

As discussed, there may be some PvPers who want an additional gear grind. And frankly, if PvP was a “non-ludicrous,” alternate route to gearing, this would be okay. Even as a casual, there is at least the potential to slowly earn the gear even when getting stomped early on. However, given the design choices made for this tier of gear, and weighing the pros and cons, the most fair option – and the one most consistent with the devs objectives – is to bolster to 258 in all PvP levels. Ranked, elite players will be unaffected (assuming bolster is properly implemented, and also accounts for min/max prefs, etc.) in that they will be where they currently are: fully-geared at BiS. Casual PvPers will not be stomped and discouraged and will not have to grind PvE in order to gear. They can PvP, without concern for gear, and bypass this tier that's not intended for PvP content, just like the PvE players can. Nobody loses. Any other approach really doesn’t make sense given the above.

 

Tl;dr -- devs should bolster PvP to 258 because: just read the orange headings...

I'm not defending the implementation. I don't deny it's problematic. I'm only pointing out that from the very beginning, getting 258 was intended to be ludicrous and limited unless you ran MM GOTM ops (and I don't know how ludicrous it is running those ops either). Unlike past tiers, no other content will be scaled to even 252, let alone 258 (others can weigh in if that's in fact true - but devs said that was the plan explicitly). My key point is that is the lens we have to view this through. So saying "it's too grindy" will have little sway with devs who actually admitted and boasted that it was intended to be ludicrously grindy if you don't do MM GOTM.

 

My problem remains PvP. This gear was supposed to be "quarantined" to MM GOTM, with an insane and ludicrous path for non MM GOTM raiders. This was somewhat palatable for me when I thought I could just ignore it if I wanted to. But as a PvPer, I cannot (but I'm ignoring it anyway). Bolster to 258 fixes the issue. Since they've refused to do that (but I'll keep pushing), it does raise some concerns about what their intentions really are...

The question does become why the devs would be shooting themselves in the foot and essentially flipping off the playerbase this way by creating a system that is deliberately unappealing and impractical for anyone outside of a small subset of players interested in doing NiM Ops, but has an effect on all players. And why they would waste a tremendous amount of time, funds and dev resources to do so, when those efforts probably would have been far better spent developing new content that would appeal to more players.

The question does become why the devs would be shooting themselves in the foot and essentially flipping off the playerbase this way by creating a system that is deliberately unappealing and impractical for anyone outside of a small subset of players interested in doing NiM Ops, but has an effect on all players. And why they would waste a tremendous amount of time, funds and dev resources to do so, when those efforts probably would have been far better spent developing new content that would appeal to more players.

Keith*

*(Sorry to be glib, but this is the reason the devs themselves gave)...

Keith*

 

*(Sorry to be glib, but this is the reason the devs themselves gave)...

I did read the notes of the livestream where they said that the only reason NiM GftM exists is because he wanted it. The question still is why they would be willing to invest that much time and development into something that one dev wants that does not seem to be in the best interests of the game overall, to the point of constructing an entirely new gearing system and currency around it.

I did read the notes of the livestream where they said that the only reason NiM GftM exists is because he wanted it. The question still is why they would be willing to invest that much time and development into something that one dev wants that does not seem to be in the best interests of the game overall, to the point of constructing an entirely new gearing system and currency around it.

How is it not in the best interest of the game? There has to be endgame content that is out of the reach of the majority to keep dangling that carrot. If people always get what they want, with no available challenge to push them when tbey are teady and willing to engage it, then playwrs are more likely to move on.

I agree with most of your post. Let me just highlight the above here (which I also agree with). I think the reason here that things are different is the really peculiar way 258 even came into being. And, the admittedly bad communication/follow up from the devs on their stated aims.

 

Let me just, again, point out why this is different. Because in past situations, devs have at least pretended that the goals where to apply to multiple different areas of content. The post below goes through the livestream (this was pre-launch) and highlights what the devs stated they wanted. We don't need to agree (and probably much of this has failed in implementation). But this is the backdrop we have to view 258 gear against - we simply cannot just point to past situations in isolation...

The whole situation and problem with 5.10 grind is directly related to pvp gear being removed from the game in 5.0.

Your solution to boost Bolster to 258 is elegant and the absolute easiest thing BioWare can do to get rid of a big part of the anxiety around this latest gear iteration.

We all knew when we had seperate gear that the absolute best pve gear came from the hardest pve content (Ops-NiM ops). Players who didn’t participate in operations didn’t need the best gear. The same as no one now needs 252-258 gear to clear any pve content that’s not MM.

Nobody that I know ever had a problem with the 4.x pve gearing system.

But pvp is different and people don’t seem to understand that if only some people can have the highest gear and the rest can’t have it or it’s extremely diffcult or slow for the average player to grind, then it can cause major problems.

If BioWare had kept pvp and pve gear seperate, 80% of all the anxiety towards this grind wouldn’t even exist.

BioWare have mentioned they might be bringing pvp gear back so that it’s seperate. Maybe it will be in 6.0, I doubt it would be earlier. But in the mean time they could help themselves and reduce the animosity towards them and the gearing by making pvp Bolster to 258 and be done with it. Then people who need the 258 gear and love to grind can work towards it and pvpers can play skill based pvp like other pvp games, ie Gw2.

I did read the notes of the livestream where they said that the only reason NiM GftM exists is because he wanted it. The question still is why they would be willing to invest that much time and development into something that one dev wants that does not seem to be in the best interests of the game overall, to the point of constructing an entirely new gearing system and currency around it.

Because Keith is in one of those elite progression raid guilds and his guild wanted it. There is no other reason I can think of that ticks all the boxes except personal reasons.

The simplest reason is usually the right reason.

The same person can make 10000 posts complaining about a topic, but it doesnt mean that 10000 people are complaining.

The same person can make 10000 posts claiming there is nothing wrong and arguing with everyone, that doesn’t make them right or that 10000 people don’t have a problem with the situation.

Works both ways.

Because Keith is in one of those elite progression raid guilds and his guild wanted it. There is no other reason I can think of that ticks all the boxes except personal reasons.

The simplest reason is usually the right reason.

I get it, I'm just stunned that they would give one person that much power to influence the game for his own personal reasons. Especially when dev time and funds are stretched so thin. It grinds my gears tremendously to think of what they could have done that might have benefitted everyone if they hadn't been concentrating on that NiM and gearing changes.

I get it, I'm just stunned that they would give one person that much power to influence the game for his own personal reasons. Especially when dev time and funds are stretched so thin. It grinds my gears tremendously to think of what they could have done that might have benefitted everyone if they hadn't been concentrating on that NiM and gearing changes.

Keith is the lead dev for SWTOR, like Ben Irving before him. He has some of the biggest pull on the direction of the game. The developers also stated that the time they needed to do master mode did not take away much of any development time from other things. Mostly because it was probably just stat adjustments and other easily doable stuff. There haven't been difficult things to do in this game in a long time; A truly hard challenge for higher tier guilds. And with how little development time was needed, they would not have really been able to get anything else out the door instead of it.

And yes, Keith does play this game, which is refreshing news since they tend to understand the game better than people who don't. Which is why things like the guild changes (which haven't been any since launch), ops, pvp updates, imp/pub and other things are coming back into the game which haven't really been there since 4.0 launched.

The gearing changes are entirely separate and were planned to go into the game with or without gods from the machine master mode. The gearing changes were to keep people interested and chasing content and also make prior content easier for more casual guilds. Most mmos do this. Look at wow, every patch adding a new tier of gear which is only obtainable by the hardest bosses. No one has a problem with wow or any other mmo doing this but they seem to have a stick up their butt when this game does it. This time they decided to gate it by rep so everyone could get it (which is more than what most mmos do) because everyone had a hissy fit over the command system. The new tier level was also designed for the NEW OPERATION boss they are releasing (again nothing to do with master mode). They stated they were already working on the new group content (new op boss) and that the master mode being added did not affect it in the slightest.

As for anyone thinking they speak for a majority when they cry about conquest changes or anything else can go stuff it. It's always been a known fact that forums are a small minority of vocal people that are up in arms about the game and never representative of the game itself. Every game forum I peruse is like this. People who like the game are on the game enjoying it, not sitting on a forum in their free time. I run a smaller guild (50ish actual people) and no one complains about the conquest changes. In fact, my guild is way more active with conquests now. Everyone likes the guild changes and perks. They like the story going back to imp/pub. They don't care or complain that a new tier gear was added, just something else to shoot for.

Keith is the lead dev for SWTOR, like Ben Irving before him. He has some of the biggest pull on the direction of the game. The developers also stated that the time they needed to do master mode did not take away much of any development time from other things. Mostly because it was probably just stat adjustments and other easily doable stuff. There haven't been difficult things to do in this game in a long time; A truly hard challenge for higher tier guilds. And with how little development time was needed, they would not have really been able to get anything else out the door instead of it.

 

And yes, Keith does play this game, which is refreshing news since they tend to understand the game better than people who don't. Which is why things like the guild changes (which haven't been any since launch), ops, pvp updates, imp/pub and other things are coming back into the game which haven't really been there since 4.0 launched.

 

The gearing changes are entirely separate and were planned to go into the game with or without gods from the machine master mode. The gearing changes were to keep people interested and chasing content and also make prior content easier for more casual guilds. Most mmos do this. Look at wow, every patch adding a new tier of gear which is only obtainable by the hardest bosses. No one has a problem with wow or any other mmo doing this but they seem to have a stick up their butt when this game does it. This time they decided to gate it by rep so everyone could get it (which is more than what most mmos do) because everyone had a hissy fit over the command system. The new tier level was also designed for the NEW OPERATION boss they are releasing (again nothing to do with master mode). They stated they were already working on the new group content (new op boss) and that the master mode being added did not affect it in the slightest.

This isn't WoW. If it were, we might be getting actual regular content drops.

They could have made NiM GftM or the new Op boss without an entirely new gearing system.

You're entitled to your opinion, and I'm not going to argue it with you. But I think the new gearing tier and how they've set it up all around one Op that most players won't even go near was a ridiculous and unnecessary waste, one dev's personal wishes should not have shaped a new gear tier, and from the posts here, most players don't seem to be happy about it.

None of the examples you provided started out offerjng the BIS gear from those activities. It generally took a minimum of 6 months for an update to be implemented that opened up BIS gear universally through ops, fps, cxp, etc.

 

Ossus hasnt been around for 6 months yet, so expect the expected gate until then, see what changes are opened up, and then see what complaints really have a premise that goes against their consistently implemented systems.

Except when GC launched it was BiS right from the get go available to every lvl 70 subscriber doing pretty much anything. And the devs were very vocal that that was the intent, and it worked as intended. There was no wait period at all.

I run a smaller guild (50ish actual people) and no one complains about the conquest changes. In fact, my guild is way more active with conquests now. Everyone likes the guild changes and perks. They like the story going back to imp/pub. They don't care or complain that a new tier gear was added, just something else to shoot for.

This is very much one of those YMMV situations. That is great that your experience with these changes has been positive, but mine has been the opposite. I was in two large, competitive conquest guilds before the conquest revamp, and it killed both of them. The handful of people who didn't quit don't talk about the guild changes and perks and they aren't shooting for the new gear tier because they just don't care.