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The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
The reason Sorcerers/Sages are OP in PvP

janne_josefsson's Avatar


janne_josefsson
02.12.2012 , 11:39 AM | #491
Calm down everyone!

This is clearly a case of rock, paper, ebola.

Instaleave the second you see atleast one sage/sorc on the opposing team = profit

RobyBaggio's Avatar


RobyBaggio
02.12.2012 , 11:43 AM | #492
Sorcerers on my server, Swifture, which is the no.1 most populated server in the world, in lvl 50 tend to be on the bottom. This a server where people had Battlemaster gear with within the first week...so...

Well Warriors tend to be up the top. The Sorcerers is very good at low levels, because of it's wide range of utility. But with very good players in Warzone they lose their value exponentially, especially the hybrid spec.

The Hybrid spec is useless in 1v1. And this happens more often then not. Good players understand this and effectiveness becomes moot.

The reason they get away with doing a lot of damage is not because they do a lot of damage it's because they are not targeted. This is how most warzones set up strategically:

Warrior and Tanks get to the front. Assassins and Opertaives start to flank, one or two may stealth to the middle trying get the oppositions best player. But most of those flank in order to drop 1 or 2. Snipers and Sorcerers, along with their healers stand back and support these guys.

Now in order to get to a sorcerer for most people, you either have to be very brave or very stupid. Because they stand back with several players in front of them, it means having to run through the whole opposition to get to them. Now this is disaster because 1 v 8 is not a good tactic and you are just asking to be nuked and spammed.

This is what I do everytime. What? You just said this is very stupid. Yes to the untrained eye it appears to be a stupid tactic but it seems I win every game doing this.

First of all they don't expect you to run through their team like an idiot to do this. They usually have their targets set on the oppositions group. Especially the sorcerers. While the sorcerer tends to look at the vast landscape of the battlefield, their long range vision means they sacrifice short range vision. Believe it or not, I have tested this hundreds of times, at times I've stood there for several seconds and not done anything just to see if they would attack me. Completely ignored me, meanwhile, they spam down the field. It seems incredible but it's just normal human psychology.

So, while the sorcerer is kiting from a distance I'm right next to him. I should say behind him because they can't use their lighting unless their standing still and there is nothing more annoying than my Marauder cutting your health in half with simple melee while I jump up and down doing rings around my opponent. And while I build up my rage I haven't used Charge, Smash, or Force Scream, or etc... etc...

Back to that tactic of running like an idiot though a crowd of people. I honestly feel like not even mentioning these tactics and keeping them to myself just because of the effectiveness. For example, I very rarely see Mararuders use their Intimating Roar unless they are needing to get out of a near death situation. I actually look to use it as one of first abilities. Paralyzing all enemies nearby for 6 seconds is extraordinary weapon in an arsenal. Talk about God Mode. I run into a group 4 or more, they are all on the ground; the rest get picked off by my team. Instant tactical win. And it goes a long way to winning a game.

It's very simple, bad players, bad teams (as teams tend not to be premade) and the fact that very few people take the initiative to instruct players what to do, means that if you think that so called most OP class in the game is sorcerers then logically you should have them high on your hit list. Not too mention they drop down like a sack of spuds. I can get their shield down within a second if I want, and then it's goodnight. Yet even though their apparently OP, nobody wants to go kill them. That's right, because most ppl are too scared to get to them and so they get kited all day.

That's your fault. The socrerer will only hurt you if you let him. Otherwise they drop quicker than anybody else in Warzone. Maybe L2P, and I don't mean just your class before you start making threads about class balance.

You haven't even spoken about one tactical or strategical element of warzone pvp, or any counterable measures. You haven't even touched the surface of what pvp is about. In fact all you post is that a hybrid spec is thus easier to play than a full skilled tree spec. Easier does not mean OP. And in this case it's not OP at all.

DragonAgeOrgins's Avatar


DragonAgeOrgins
02.12.2012 , 11:45 AM | #493
I disagree.

Nazutron's Avatar


Nazutron
02.12.2012 , 12:04 PM | #494
OMG! RobyBaggio! finally someone that knows how to play =) I 100 % agree with you =)

best quote:

" That's your fault. The socrerer will only hurt you if you let him. Otherwise they drop quicker than anybody else in Warzone. Maybe L2P, and I don't mean just your class before you start making threads about class balance. "

Dregas's Avatar


Dregas
02.12.2012 , 12:38 PM | #495
Lol how does this keep happening? The evidence is clear and the original poster's point is backed up with very good evidence, great threads throughout the forums, and just plain common sense. Yet still there are so many L2P responses.

I think the problem here is the general gaming community is used to looking through very biased eyes. With the way mmos have been trending they are used to healers that can put out dmg and take longer to kill than a tank. Caster classes with "light armor" that skirt around balance with self casting shields also boasts extremely streamlined and efficient power sets/resource management and talents compared to other classes. And all of this at ranged!

With all these abilities combined ranged class like the sith sorc have made their inherent ranged weaknesses so absolutely minute, that other classes cannot compare. Now add on top of all this that the classes that these sorcs are fight STILL have their inherent weaknesses that are easily exploited with the amount of control allowed with the hybrid spec. That right there is the essence of the problem and why it's not a L2P problem.

Players insist that marauders take more skill because of the sheer inefficiency of their class design and glaring weaknesses that have to be overcome in order to simply compete on an average level.

It makes absolutely horrid balance when the efficiency of a class is so completely far and above other classes that it becomes detrimental to pvp. Yet so many people ignore this point and just tell people to play better.

That would be as ludicrous as me expecting you win a drag race vs a Ferrari in a station wagon, because you have better driving skills.

ejstout's Avatar


ejstout
02.12.2012 , 12:45 PM | #496
I like that all of his screenshots show that he uses Shockfrozen water

Nazutron's Avatar


Nazutron
02.12.2012 , 01:04 PM | #497
Now ill show what happends when u let a sorc/sage do dps:

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/465/l2pa.jpg

As u can see the 2 other sages are also hybrid but fail cause they are dying and getting focused on. Notice my deaths and their deaths stats. I did my best to be behind pillars and let impire focus the others. I used my mates as dummies while i laughed at them without anyone stopping me that much. There was few on me , that why i healed that much.

In this warzone i only focused to do high total damage without thinking about winning :P

nr. 1 rule! Seriusly focus the hybrid sorcs/sages and they will end in bottom of list. They are so easy to kill.

As i said before there will always be 1 sorc/sage that gets away with dooing aoe! :P When i meet smart enemenies im pretty much worthless as hybrid :P

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.12.2012 , 01:19 PM | #498
Quote: Originally Posted by Dregas View Post
Lol how does this keep happening? The evidence is clear and the original poster's point is backed up with very good evidence, great threads throughout the forums, and just plain common sense. Yet still there are so many L2P responses.

I think the problem here is the general gaming community is used to looking through very biased eyes. With the way mmos have been trending they are used to healers that can put out dmg and take longer to kill than a tank. Caster classes with "light armor" that skirt around balance with self casting shields also boasts extremely streamlined and efficient power sets/resource management and talents compared to other classes. And all of this at ranged!

With all these abilities combined ranged class like the sith sorc have made their inherent ranged weaknesses so absolutely minute, that other classes cannot compare. Now add on top of all this that the classes that these sorcs are fight STILL have their inherent weaknesses that are easily exploited with the amount of control allowed with the hybrid spec. That right there is the essence of the problem and why it's not a L2P problem.

Players insist that marauders take more skill because of the sheer inefficiency of their class design and glaring weaknesses that have to be overcome in order to simply compete on an average level.

It makes absolutely horrid balance when the efficiency of a class is so completely far and above other classes that it becomes detrimental to pvp. Yet so many people ignore this point and just tell people to play better.

That would be as ludicrous as me expecting you win a drag race vs a Ferrari in a station wagon, because you have better driving skills.
It's funny that you should write this post. If you read through this thread, you'll also find various tactics on how to deal w/ a Sorc/Sage to shut them down.

Absolutely no one complaining about Sorcs in this thread has even offered an attempt at strategy against them, they are simply complaining that they are OP and refusing to learn how to fight them.

Anyone that you don't know how to fight is going to feel OP until you learn how to deal w/ them.

In fact, there's a post on this page that generally mirrors most peoples' sentiments. "omg, if you see a Sorc/Sage on the other team, just quit the warzone".

Yeah, it's your own mentality that is making them seem OP. There are plenty of people in this thread who have no problem dropping a Sorc, or destroying their damage output entirely.

What's the difference between them and you who are complaining? They took the time to learn what to do against a Sorc, instead of coming here to ask for nerfs instead.

Seriously, the best argument against a Sorc that I've seen in the whole thread is that they synergize well when you stack 3-4 of them.

News flash: All of the healing classes synergize extremely well when you stack them and become almost impossible to kill.
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.

Naethion's Avatar


Naethion
02.12.2012 , 01:19 PM | #499
This guy makes very good points, and it seems people believe he is asking for a nerf, when in reality is is asking for a Tree rearrangement. to keep the good CC away from Hybrids.

I mostly agree with this, however, some of the CC should stay at least. not all! but some. Or at least give some and Internal Cooldown.
Old newbie on a return pad to his game

Varicite's Avatar


Varicite
02.12.2012 , 01:24 PM | #500
Quote: Originally Posted by Naethion View Post
This guy makes very good points, and it seems people believe he is asking for a nerf, when in reality is is asking for a Tree rearrangement. to keep the good CC away from Hybrids.

I mostly agree with this, however, some of the CC should stay at least. not all! but some. Or at least give some and Internal Cooldown.
Taking away CC from the class w/ the lowest burst damage and lowest defenses in the game without giving anything in compensation is asking for a nerf.

Would you rather they raised Sorc burst damage and buffed the shield to compensate for having fewer escapes?
Quote: Originally Posted by JayPres View Post
Strap your digital dog to your digital roof and take your ideologies, lovely wife, and sweet little 8yr old girl to a PVE server where you fit best.