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Assassin Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Public Test Server
Assassin Ability, Tactical Item, and Set Bonus Feedback
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PrometheanDeath's Avatar


PrometheanDeath
06.21.2019 , 10:01 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by ericmusco View Post

new ability - severing slash
strikes targets in a cone, dealing weapon damage and slowing their movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds. 12 second cooldown.

set bonuses
these bonuses will likely have the high end of piece requirements, such as requiring 4 or 6 pieces. The smaller piece bonuses will be more passive in nature (stat benefits, etc).
  • death knell - killing an enemy during overcharge saber refreshes the duration of overcharge saber. Can occur up to 5 times during one overcharge saber.
  • shadowcraft - using phantom stride from stealth grants a charge of shadowcraft, causing your next attack to critically hit.
  • deflecting slashes - each target hit by severing slash extends deflection's duration by 1 second.
  • steely spike - using spike grants you a 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.
  • projected shroud - using severing slash while under force shroud lowers the targets accuracy and extends the duration of force shroud by 2 seconds.

tactical items
this a new item slot coming in onslaught. You can only wear one tactical item at a time.

Assassin
  • shrouding guard - force shroud also applies to any ally you are guarding.
  • reckless shadow - recklessness increases your force regeneration greatly for a short time.
  • multitrap - mind trap can now affect up to two targets at once.
  • shadow step - phantom stride now has 2 ability charges.

darkness
  • shadow shroud - using force shroud while dark ward is active consumes it, but extends the duration of force shroud by a quarter of a second for each dark ward stack consumed.
  • shadow ward - dark ward gains 5 additional stacks and phantom stride resets its cooldown.
  • redirected wrath - wither generates redirected wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds.

deception
  • discharging voltage - severing slash causes your next discharge to arc to multiple targets.
  • burning bolts - when reaping strike hits, it causes its target to burn.
  • high voltage - using voltaic slash and lacerate with 2 stacks of voltage deals additional damage and finishes the cooldown of ball lightning.

hatred
  • hungering blade - critically hitting with leeching strike resets its cooldown and increases the critical chance of the next leeching strike. Stacks up to 3 times.
  • exhaustion field - death field does 10% more damage to all targets, additional damage to force slowed targets, and spreads force slow's effects.
  • thrashing terror - creeping terror has a 10% chance to tick an additional time whenever thrash deals damage.

Just going to go down the list in order. Nice to see a new ability for AoE, I know deception and tanks are going to having something better. Can't say the general set sin set bonuses have much of a pve dps aspect though.

Killing adds maybe for the first one, except most would prefer to use it in openers for increased damage, where adds aren't available yet. The using stride while stealthed makes your next attack a critical hit is honestly worthless. Deception is forced to auto crit discharge, yet the utility Hand of Darkness makes it so I can just mind trap anything while stealthed and get the same bonus, doesn't even have to be a successful stun. Using deflection on a dps sin is very rare, mainly if you are tanking adds yourself which should never happen, or you are being a meme with the reflect utility. 20% DR after a spike use won't ever be used as a dps, it's a dps loss to do so, yet this for tanks will be amazing on top of their already high force speed mitigation. The accuracy reduction if it can be applied to operations bosses might be fun to see, but not worth a use cause AoE will obviously be a dps loss of single target skills, on top of that not going to sacrifice single target dps in order to have a longer lasting shroud when I should just time shroud to be used at a correct time than too early.

Guarding shroud definitely has some nice uses, but I see this more as a pvp tactical and just maybe a tank tactical in pve. With dps sin having only shroud and force speed as their main DCDs using shroud for someone else except in the rare instance it is needed for both players like Dread guards I don't see this as worth it. Increased regen from using recklessness would help if we knew by how much and by how long, but deception has no energy issues and the only way for deception to have energy issues, is to use a further listed tactical instead and ball lightning on CD instead of on induction proc. For Hatred though I'm all for it, even tanks could benefit burning a near useless DCD for dps purposes as most do anyway. Multi mind trap I don't see as being useful, maybe from an RP standpoint but by the time you mindtrap the 2nd player in pvp, the first player's mindtrap will run out before a ninja cap and the half force cost doesn't make this appealing either unless this was changed similar to how whirlwind auto affects nearby targets as well. stride with 2 charges is amazing for decep, hatred it'll kill dps because of how stride break's eradicate's internal proc timer, but I guess it's a plus for mobility.

Consuming darkward for additional shroud sounds nice on paper, but sacrificing darkward's mitigation chance for an almost unnecessary increase in shroud isn't practical with how shroud already is used. The extra stacks on darkward is nice, however if the CD reset was reversed, where stride was reset on a darkward use would have much more utility as force speed is almost always on CD for defensive purposes. Wither granting DR per enemy instead of flat DR on use is a nice change, definitely helps against swarms that could melt a sin with no running DCD.

Finally some AoE to deception, this concept I love with severing slash's 12 second CD I think this is pretty great. Reaping applying a burn doesn't seem like a thought out tactical this seems almost like a learned passive that should of been added in our discipline even though it's just a flat dps increase with no combat changes. Personally would of loved to see a "Reaping reduces CD from all the voltaic spam" as that would make this filler much more appealing and involved. High Voltage on the other hand is definitely a nice idea and a very fun one at that. The ability to pushing force or keep your induction proc in rhythm with ball lightning's reset makes the playstyle of deception much more creative, this is exactly what I was hoping for with these tactical game play changes.

Hatred bonuses to me almost seem as original as burning volts tactical from deception, not really thought out. Critical dependency on leeching when it already is the 2nd highest costing ability makes it seem very rng dependent and extremely force negative on top of that. Had it been a reduced partial CD per dot with all 3 dots equally a reset, that would make hatred feel a lot more engaging and fun for "leeching blocks." Death field with a flat damage boost seems pretty basic, and in pve you can't force slow enemies and spreading force slow when even the lambaste/thrash utility slow is all assassins care about can just be done with lacerate spam. This is probably the pvp tactical but I don't think I've ever considering using force slow on any assassin spec be it pve or pvp and a slow spread seems too long of a setup because of dots a player grouping all being a thing. Pretty basic extra dot procs like most dot specs I'm sure would be receiving or have already gotten like virulence and lethality. If this was applied not only to trash, but to lacerate and severing slash, this might be more worth it considering Hatred is more about AoE cleave than any single target. As a side note if Severing slash could also spread dots like lacerate that would be enjoyable being a better cleave filler in every aspect instead of taking a lower priority to lacerate on no dotted targets.

Just my 2 cents from a 1.0 sin main.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
06.22.2019 , 03:23 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
Death kernel has %0 use in pve.
wouldn't say 0% here .... in PvE are more than enough adds in bossfights to make it work. Its just situational. Like with pretty much all the bonuses.

Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
Stealthy spike has also %0 use in pve.
In what universe do you live? ..... I would even go as far as to say that this might be a bit to strong in PvE. 20% DR on a 20s cooldown?
For example. Something now hits you with an 80k hit. Using spike reduces this to 50k damage.

Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
Don't how the projected shroud is gonna work, but if it makes boss the miss an ability could be imported and use full.
Yes, it will make the boss miss attacks.

Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
What is this? So all the old set bonuses are gone now? Where is critting maul?
Welcome to game updates ...? This often happens with a levelcap increase. Old set bonuses will still be there. It will just be outdated with the stats. I think in 4.0 people still used some 3.0 abilities. Or maybe it was 3.0 with 2.0 bonuses. Don't remember anymore.

Quote: Originally Posted by lord-angelus View Post
Can you clarify that the ones you posted only tanks set bonuses not dps? They look like tank set bonuses to me
shadowcraft a tank set? :P
And regardless...... you forget that you need to let go of the idea of 'tank'-sets versus 'dps'-sets.
The set bonus will be tied to the armor shell itself. There are no other stats involved here. (fun trivia fact.. this was exactly how this game worked for a long time . Only difference is that shells are now gonna be legacy-bound)

Basically, you can use any set bonus without sacrificing dps stats.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
06.22.2019 , 03:26 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by olagatonjedi View Post
Change targets (the point of a defensive skill) until the defensive fades, and then both players are without that dcd.
I know. But wouldn't you agree that waiting for 14 odd seconds is rather long in PvP? In 14 seconds a lot can happen.
Granted, this is not something that always will happen but we do need to take worst cases into account
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
06.22.2019 , 03:42 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
question about projected shroud and other decrease of enemy accuracy abilities:

do these affect the accuracy of bosses, and thus defense chance? is it all such type abilities or only some, and is it only some bosses?
It should be working against all abilities unless its an autohit ability (please don't break things bioware ... track record isn't that good (reflecting things that shouldn't be reflectable ... )

Anyways. Its better than defence chance. Defence chance only works against ranged/melee attacks while reducing accuracy you will also defend against force/tech.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

TheDramaKing's Avatar


TheDramaKing
06.22.2019 , 04:57 AM | #25
Hi Mr Musco, I played this class quite a lot, both in ranked and nim ops.
So let's start, shall we?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

New Ability - Severing Slash
Strikes targets in a cone, dealing weapon damage and slowing their movement speed by 50% for 3 seconds. 12 second cooldown.
You're adding this ability, which is ok, but then you ask people playing Hatred if they wanna buy a tactical item that makes Death Field spread Force Slow (also 50% slow)... Why?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Death Knell - Killing an enemy during Overcharge Saber refreshes the duration of Overcharge Saber. Can occur up to 5 times during one Overcharge Saber.
Honestly useless, both in pvp and pve.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Shadowcraft - Using Phantom Stride from stealth grants a charge of Shadowcraft, causing your next attack to critically hit.
So... This may be "ok" in pve with an opener like PS > Discharge > Recklessness > Discharge > *fill the 2 recklessness charges however you want*. We essentially gain 1 more autocrit on Discharge, but we lose our old set bonus autocrit on Maul. Maul being our strongest ability damage-wise since the patch where you nerfed Discharge. So this one would be yet another nerf for sins.
But here comes the worst part... for pvp is terrible.
90% of any sin in stealth (doesn't matter which spec) will open with Spike.
Now why on Earth would I give up my autocrit on Maul (that I can decide when to use) for one Phantom Stride > Spike combo if Spike's autocrit that does a way lower damage than Maul's?
I mean, the alternative would be to Phantom Stride to an enemy and reveal myself without stunning him by using... what? Discharge and having no control over him?
Deception is all about cc and controlling the opponent, this set bonus doesn't reward a good strategy.
Let's move on.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Deflecting Slashes - Each target hit by Severing Slash extends Deflection's duration by 1 second.
I don't know if you are aware of it, but Deflection is a pretty terrible DCD compared to *put literally whatever DCD you want from any spec*, it's not an Enrage Defense, a Reflecting Shield, an Undying, a Force Barrier or whatever.
When do you use DCDs? When you are in trouble, simply put.
1 second more for each target that we turned around to face and use our cone ability on, instead of using an Overload to push them back or simply running away, try to los them, w/e, is not gonna save us in any way.
Again, would never give up a Maul autocrit for this.
Since we touched the topic: please, PLEASE, make Deflection an actually reliable and solid DCD that makes people stop focusing you, like ALL other classes have (except for PT, because apparently you hate Sins and PTs).

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Steely Spike - Using Spike grants you a 20% damage reduction for 6 seconds.
For dps specs (since only Darkness can Spike w/o being in stealth) it means that I stun one target for 2 seconds making this small DR effectively worth 4 seconds only...
Unless I go Rambo and Spike one guy in the middle of a bunch of enemies to benefit from it, of course.


Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Projected Shroud - Using Severing Slash while under Force Shroud lowers the targets accuracy and extends the duration of Force Shroud by 2 seconds.
If I'm under Shroud I'm already protected vs Tech and Force abilities, why would I want to lower someone's accuracy while still extending my Shroud? Is this some specific Set Bonus vs those pesky sniper Marksmanship?
Joking aside, good to help the team, possibly, but SUPER situational. I expect a set bonus to work in EVERY situation and this is not the case.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Tactical Items
This a new item slot coming in Onslaught. You can only wear one Tactical Item at a time.
LET'S GO, BABY!

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Assassin
  • Shrouding Guard - Force Shroud also applies to any ally you are guarding.
Situational in both in pvp and pve. Potentially very strong for a tank in ranked.
As a dps you're giving up one of the few DCDs you have to hopefully save someone else.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Reckless Shadow - Recklessness increases your Force regeneration greatly for a short time.
Meh for Hatred and Darkness, I guess. Deception definitely doesn't need more Force regen, come on.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Multitrap - Mind Trap can now affect up to two targets at once.
So now I have to find two dummies that guard the same node while staying next to each other...

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Shadow Step - Phantom Stride now has 2 ability charges.
Hatred and Darkness won't pick this, but for a Deception it means 1 Discharge more, which is ok.
Ah yes... Our beloved Random Stride that takes us to other planets without the need of a starship and that you had the majestic idea of making clunky as **** with that absurd cooldown.
God I love this awfully designed skill <3
Especially when I play other games where a similar one smoothly teleports you behind the enemy without any delay, as we always asked.
Sorry, I'm still salty for that "fix" (haha funny) that butchered Phantom Stride.


Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Darkness
  • Shadow Shroud - Using Force Shroud while Dark Ward is active consumes it, but extends the duration of Force Shroud by a quarter of a second for each Dark Ward stack consumed.
Pretty good.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Shadow Ward - Dark Ward gains 5 additional stacks and Phantom Stride resets its cooldown.
Ugh. Dark Ward's CD is already super short...

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Redirected Wrath - Wither generates Redirected Wrath stacks per enemy it hits, increasing your damage reduction by 2.5% per stack for 10 seconds.
For ranked it potentially means a +20% DR if catch all 4 (Wither has 8.7s CD with high alacrity), which is not devastating, I guess... Although if we add this DR to the Steely Spike one......
In some pve context can be pretty cool (wiiiii Corruptor Zero)

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Deception
  • Discharging Voltage - Severing Slash causes your next Discharge to arc to multiple targets.
I can see people picking this for some AoE-intense boss because bored of spamming Lacerate.
But then again, why not going directly for Hatred in such fights?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Burning Bolts - When Reaping Strike hits, it causes its target to burn.
We are still talking about our one-and-only Tactical Item, right?
So what's the deal with this? Is it gonna burn the target's eyes from their sockets or why would I pick a DoT over the other TIs?

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • High Voltage - Using Voltaic Slash and Lacerate with 2 stacks of Voltage deals additional damage and finishes the cooldown of Ball Lightning.
S-s-s-s-sempai Musco... An ACTUALLY good ability? F-f-f-f-f-for us Deception??

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post

Hatred
  • Hungering Blade - Critically hitting with Leeching Strike resets its cooldown and increases the critical chance of the next Leeching Strike. Stacks up to 3 times.
What if I don't crit? Will I still keep the stack when after a Leeching Strike CD?
Also Leeching Strike consumes 25 Force out of 100 that we have and Hatred's regen is terrible right now.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Exhaustion Field - Death Field does 10% more damage to all targets, additional damage to Force Slowed targets, and spreads Force Slow's effects.
Ehm, Hatred spreads with Lacerate, Sorcerer Madness with Death Field. You were a bit lazy here, eh?
Again, Hatred treated as a melee Madness and not an assassin.
Also, why would I use an extra GCD to cast Force Slow (50% slow) and then spread it when you just gave us a new cone ability called Severing Slash that applies the same 50% slow? Because this Tactical Item was designed for Madness, right.
The only good part is a 10% damage increase of Death Field.

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Thrashing Terror - Creeping Terror has a 10% chance to tick an additional time whenever Thrash deals damage.
Slight increase of dps. That's not what Hatred lacks of, but ok.
Again, you designed this for Madness who's Force Lightning ticks way more frequently and it's not so Force consuming, then you just change that class filler for Hatred's.
No, it's not working and please stop stomping on the concept of "assassin" that Hatred should belong to. Or just rename it "Melee Madness" and be done with it, that works too.

Sorry for being blunt, but sometimes I have this strange feeling that someone up there has no clue about the current state of classes balance, meta, endgame and so on.

Peace

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
06.22.2019 , 06:20 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TheDramaKing View Post
Sorry? So I stun one target for 2 seconds making this small DR effectively worth 4 second? Why?
Or should I go Rambo in the middle of a bunch of enemies to benefit from it?
I don't understand, next.
Small note on 'small DR'; 20% DR means an 80k hit turned into 50k damage.
My point though is you forget the use in PvE for this one. Most likely the boss won't get stunned which means you get the full 6s (provided the eric worded it correctly).
Even when someone/something gets stunned you still benefit against the other people/things. There is a grey area between the '1 vs 1' and 'neo vs agent smith'.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheDramaKing View Post
Man, you're making me so confused...
If I'm under I'm already protected vs Tech and Force abilities, why would I want to lower someone's accuracy while still extending my Shroud?
I expect a set bonus to work in EVERY situation and this is definitely not the case, aside being not that good anyway.
Because accuracy also lowers melee/ranged overall damage? Not only against you but against the whole raid. Take for example burn phase Dread Council.

Quote: Originally Posted by TheDramaKing View Post
So now I have to find two dummies that guard the same node while staying next to each other...
Maybe I misinterpreted this. But dont think you need to zap both in 1 click. I assume you can zap up to a max of 2 instead of the max of 1.
This is still situational ofc. You losing at least 1,5s might mean you fail to cap. Situational but hey ... tacticals are meant like that


Quote: Originally Posted by TheDramaKing View Post
Ah yes... Our beloved Random Stride that takes us to other planets without the need of starship
Amen


Quote: Originally Posted by TheDramaKing View Post
You mean every time I activate Dark Ward I reset Phantom Stride?
No. The 'it' in 'pantom stride resets its cooldown' refers to dark ward. This reset is a bit lack luster (although it means you can keep shield against many adds that a eating up all ward stacks). The 5 extra wards are not that useful either I think. Essentially it means a slightly longer uptime on absorption. (or am I missing something here?)
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger since patch 1.2 through ups and downs
PugsloveHP - the 96k HP commando DPS/healer
(4.0 HP, currently updating it to 5.0)

FlameYOL's Avatar


FlameYOL
06.22.2019 , 08:45 AM | #27
The set bonuses look really promising.Most of the tactical items for the Assassin itself are underwhelming and should be utlities, the only one I see being useful and role defining is Shrouding Guard.

Shadow shroud is a good tactical item and might be helpful in certain situation, Shadow ward seems rather pointless, Assassins already get more than enough Dark Wards. Redirected Wrath seems to be promising but how many stacks can we "farm"?

Exhaustion Field and Hungering Blade are useful, but Trashing Terror seems to have a rather low chance to trigger another tick which might make it too pointless to be a tactical item.
A man can have anything...If he's willing to sacrifice everything

frennky's Avatar


frennky
06.22.2019 , 09:03 AM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Let's use Phantom Stride from the tactical above as an example. The Shadow Step Tactical would give it two charges, so it would work like this. Assuming nothing changes and it maintains its current 30s cooldown. You haven't used it yet and so it has two charges.

You activate Phantom Stride, the ability moves from 2 charges to 1. Behind the scenes a 30 second recharge timer starts. Meaning, 30 seconds later Phantom Stride will regain a charge. During this time, Phantom Stride is still usable as you still have another charge.

If after activating the first Phantom Stride, you decide to activate it again right away, you will no longer have any charges left and the ability will be on cooldown until a charge comes back. Basically ability charges means the amount of times you can use an ability before it is unavailable. It remains unavailable until you regenerate a charge.

-eric
So instead of getting pissed at broken ability once every 30s I can get pissed 2 times for same time. Nice...

Just don't forget to give same love to operatives...

Akushii's Avatar


Akushii
06.22.2019 , 12:03 PM | #29
I am a bit confused with the set bonuses. Normally you have a 'set' where you gain more abilities with 2pc/4pc/6pc. However here you just have descriptions of some 'ideas'. Should you have a set piece where you have a certain ability for 2pc (usually a bit weaker), than something for 4pc and then for 6pc. So even if you have one set piece for tank spec, and one for dps spec, you should have at least 6 abilities and grouped together where it makes sense.

With the different abilities you have mentioned, it's hard to get an idea of what it's going to do unless we see the whole set. I'd imagine a tank set piece would have more defensive abilities vs a dps one which will be more offensive.

Furthermore you can break it down to single target dps set bonus vs aoe dps set bonus. Or even hatred set bonus vs deception set bonus, which takes the spec into account.

It still feels like these are vague ideas of what you want to accomplish rather than a concrete idea of what will be.

(I can see Deflecting Slashes, Steely Spike and Projected Shroud being part of 1 set piece. 2PC: Deflecting Slashes, 4PC: Steely Spike, 6PC: Projected Shroud for Darkness spec)

PS: Anyone wondering how charges and timers will work, here is a pic of how it works in WoW. It will most likely be the same here: https://media.wago.io/screenshots/r1...4931b74c42.gif. You can see both the first ability and fourth ability have 2 charges.

omeru's Avatar


omeru
06.22.2019 , 04:03 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Let's use Phantom Stride from the tactical above as an example. The Shadow Step Tactical would give it two charges, so it would work like this. Assuming nothing changes and it maintains its current 30s cooldown. You haven't used it yet and so it has two charges.

You activate Phantom Stride, the ability moves from 2 charges to 1. Behind the scenes a 30 second recharge timer starts. Meaning, 30 seconds later Phantom Stride will regain a charge. During this time, Phantom Stride is still usable as you still have another charge.

If after activating the first Phantom Stride, you decide to activate it again right away, you will no longer have any charges left and the ability will be on cooldown until a charge comes back. Basically ability charges means the amount of times you can use an ability before it is unavailable. It remains unavailable until you regenerate a charge.

-eric
Hey musco i am sure you all *********** know that phantom stride is bugged since release and doesnt work 50% of the times and kills you 20% and works around 30% so is that mean you guys are gonna actually fix it or just go full BW and link a set bonus to this while it is bugged?