You could try discussing loot rules before the run.

Or is it more fun to blame this on the game?

You could try discussing loot rules before the run.

 

Or is it more fun to blame this on the game?

What there is to discuss about? It's simple:

Need: if it's upgrade for character you're currently playing.

Greed: if it's for your character but it's not an upgrade or you want to sell it for credits or give it to one of your companions.

Pass: if you just simply don't want it for any reason.

What there is to discuss about? It's simple:

Need: if it's upgrade for character you're currently playing.

Greed: if it's for your character but it's not an upgrade or you want to sell it for credits or give it to one of your companions.

Pass: if you just simply don't want it for any reason.

If only it were that simple! It should be of course, but for some reason, no one seems to want to follow etiquette. Its something I have not really seen in abundance till recently, and where I see it the most: Kuat drive yards. I have gotten some pretty colorful replies to my attempts to sort it out before the FP begins. And the number one reply is "Everyone else does it". I find that telling. I am aware there are no real gear drops in KDY, just rep tokens and KDY boxes. But this is a flashpoint that a lot of our newer players are into, IMO, because of the amount of experience as compared to a regular FP. And it worries me that so many give less than 2 shats about the etiquette used by so many of us. It will only spell trouble for future groups and and the ability of you newer members who are doing this, to enjoy future content, and here is why: If you are a ninja, especially after its explained to you (this is for u noobs) most of us are going to put you on our ignore lists. 2xp weekend netted about 7 for my ignore list. If you are on someone's ignore list you cannot be placed in a group finder group with that person, also, word gets around. You will be labled. Why should you care? you say. Well, if you are wanting to get into end game PVE, or PVP even, and you are on the ignore list of many, and known as a ninja, well....good luck finding a team or a group that will accept you. No one likes a ninja. (unless its a keyboardninja)

So, in closing, I say to you, Mr. flashpoint Ninja: learn to need only what you need as an upgrade and greed what you do not. If its something like KDY rep stuff, learn to get it straight at the start of the FP just how your group is gonna approach the rolls, it will make your life easier and everyone will have a better time, but in the end, this is only my humble opinion. It is for you to do with as you see fit.

In KDY there is rarely any upgrades to gear, unless your gear is very bad. If your gear is good you should not care about

someone getting gear there.

And reputation tokens, everyone need them equally, unless reputation is maxed, so why weren't they allowed to roll need?

For Group Finder or Need before Greed loot roll groups, the loot system should have a few small tweaks to eliminate a large portion of the BS we put up with in the current anything goes system.

ANYTHING that isn't gear (Rep Tokens, Mounts, Pets, whatever) should only have two roll choices, a choice for want and a choice for pass. No more having the party all agree to hit greed or three hitting greed for a KDY Box, EEE, Mount or whatever and some a-hole hitting need to take for themselves.

Gear should only allow a Need role if it is gear with armor / stats specific for your class. No more a-hole rolling need for their companions, alts, to vendor or just to be a-holes if it isn't at least gear for their class.

I'd personally add a few more rules to tighten up for role, but I see little in the way of a-hole need rolling for offspec while I see plenty of a-hole need rolling for companions, alts, and vendors, so the extra complexity in such a system probably isn't worth the effort to design and develop.

So, in closing, I say to you, Mr. flashpoint Ninja: learn to need only what you need as an upgrade and greed what you do not. If its something like KDY rep stuff, learn to get it straight at the start of the FP just how your group is gonna approach the rolls, it will make your life easier and everyone will have a better time, but in the end, this is only my humble opinion. It is for you to do with as you see fit.

If I start selecting Greed for those KDY kits then I will never get 12 of those because Greed never rolls higher than Need. And if you say at the beginning "everyone selects Greed for KDY kits" there's always someone who selects Need. Would it be easier to change to Master Looter and keep everything if you really want them? It also doesn't help when people want to skip champions in KDY (especially in level 55 queue).

If I start selecting Greed for those KDY kits then I will never get 12 of those because Greed never rolls higher than Need. And if you say at the beginning "everyone selects Greed for KDY kits" there's always someone who selects Need. Would it be easier to change to Master Looter and keep everything if you really want them? It also doesn't help when people want to skip champions in KDY (especially in level 55 queue).

Change to master looter and keep everything for yourself? I would say you can't be serious, but you are. Just wow. Here's something, when your talking at the start, decide what your gonna roll, and it can be need for kdy boxes, as long as everyone agrees that that is what you will all be rolling. That can cut the ninja off at the knees. And really, kdy isn't going anywhere. Is getting 12 boxes more important then not stooping to the level of ninja scum? Wait, don't answer that, I can already guess the answer of many, and without the force no less, lol

Is getting 12 boxes more important then not stooping to the level of ninja scum? Wait, don't answer that, I can already guess the answer of many, and without the force no less, lol

Only reasons I do KDY:

- KDY boxes

- Daily

There really isn't other reasons for me to do it anymore. And since I've got something like 1 box from last 30 runs it's not that good for getting those.

What there is to discuss about?

Have you ever pugged with a new person that isn't familiar with this? If someone needs for a companion, you can:

1. Explain the etiquette to the person in the group.

or

2. Complain in the forums that the game lets people do it.

If I start selecting Greed for those KDY kits then I will never get 12 of those because Greed never rolls higher than Need. And if you say at the beginning "everyone selects Greed for KDY kits" there's always someone who selects Need. Would it be easier to change to Master Looter and keep everything if you really want them? It also doesn't help when people want to skip champions in KDY (especially in level 55 queue).

This and if all greed (what rarely happen cuz ninjas) it would be one and same to all need

People need freedom to roll on whatever

Sometimes we play as a gold or with friends and we like to help each get gear

It pretty rare to on my server to run into loot ninjas

Just discuss loot rules before hand

Communication is key

I would say that boss loot should only make the need option available for the class that can make use of it.

Lightsaber with willpower as main stat? Assassins/Sorcs can need on it, everyone else can only greed.

Vibroknife with cunning? Only operatives and snipers can roll need.

Etc, etc.

The strange thing is that the powertech who needs on the vibroknife with cunning or the marauder who needs on the willpower light armor never ever seem to respond to anything in group chat. I guess they're maintaining the discipline of the ninja, and remaining as silent as possible.

It's pretty obvious exactly what's happening with some of these people, if you know what the most common companion for their role/class is. They're not stupid, they're just being jerks who believe that their lame companion is more important than a real player.

No need to rant, OP.

1st Ninja: explain how loot rules work.

2nd Ninja: votekick and ignore.

This is not an issue with the game, it's a PEBKAC.

No need to rant, OP.

 

1st Ninja: explain how loot rules work.

2nd Ninja: votekick and ignore.

 

This is not an issue with the game, it's a PEBKAC.

Except that many of the controlling aspects of today's MMOs can be traced back to design changes which were implemented to deal with issues that arose when the first MMOs allowed players much more control, back when the lack of controls lead to some pretty nasty social issues.

Anyways, I agree we have the means to deal with this issue after it occurs, but that doesn't change the fact that the developers could tighten up the rules to prevent this issue from happening in the first place.

I just feel the game should focus a bit more on preventing as much of this as possible than having to use the 'just kick them and put them on ignore' solution after the fact.

And like I stated earlier, the rules don't need to be too onerous and should only apply to Group Finder or random groups formed using Need / Greed (e.g. not organized loot master or guild type runs).

And the most basic change would be to mark anything NOT character gear (rep tokens, mats, mounts, pets, etc) as a simple Roll / Pass option and anything that is gear only provides a Need roll to characters of the class which uses the gear, otherwise all character have the Greed / Pass options available.

Oh and edit to add: I explain loot norms to 'ninjas' on the first occurrence, and give the person a chance to correct their behavior (e.g. pass the item they ninja'd to the one who should get it or do a clean open roll on something like a mount).

If they agree to correct their mistake, then fine, no harm no foul.

If they don't, I kick and ignore at that point. I don't give a-holes two opportunities to ninja stuff by giving them a pass the first time.

levelling the 10th char i'm just voting anyone who fits more than one of these conditions:

+wrong gear-------->kick after explanation

+ninja----------------->kick

+''wrong'' spec-------->kick(if higher than lvl 20), i have field respec and off-gear but hey..ppl must learn

+ >2 wipes----------->leave myself

levelling the 10th char i'm just voting anyone who fits more than one of these conditions:

 

+wrong gear-------->kick after explanation

+ninja----------------->kick

+''wrong'' spec-------->kick(if higher than lvl 20), i have field respec and off-gear but hey..ppl must learn

+ >2 wipes----------->leave myself

Do you bother to explain for anything other than wrong gear, or let them continue to run around ignorant?

Yep... it's just communication issue mostly, and ignorant can allways be kicked.

Specvise i havent ever been that strict and tbh that feels bit stupid... and i do have some chars too

And most of all it's a risk you take every time when you go pug, so you must have some tolerance too Or then just play with guys you know.