Bioware: NO!

US: y? y no CC? Mando gets CC. y we no get CC?

Duran'del here, hope you guys enjoyed the little intro.

On topic: Vanguards need a Crowd Control. As many of you know, Commando does get a Crowd Control, but for some reason, BioWare decided to not give the vanguard a CC(cough, Consular, cough), which is cheap. Vanguards also don't get a charge(cough, Jedi Knight, cough) until we get it from our Skill Tree. In other words, we are the useless tanks added only so All-Trooper groups and guilds was a viable option(Not a good idea, but viable). Shadows get a CC, so why can't we? Our AoE stun only lasts for two seconds(cough, Smuggler, cough) and doesn't give a debuff. If you got your neural system overloaded, you'd be a potato. If it lasted 4 or 5 seconds (A tiny flash grenade should not last 5 seconds. It's unbalanced, BW. Get some balance) and gave an accuracy and melee damage debuff (Neural Recomposition and for BHs, Carbonite Sickness). On a semi-related note, using Explosive Surge/Flame Sweep along with Riot Gas/Oil Slick should create a DoT, but removes up the accuracy debuff from Riot Gas/Oil Slick.

Last time I checked neural surge and cyro grenade still stun targets.

Also only healer classes and stealthers have the 1 minute CC

Last time I checked neural surge and cyro grenade still stun targets.

 

Also only healer classes and stealthers have the 1 minute CC

I wasn't saying Cryo Grenade doesn't stun targets. I'm saying that neural surge needs a buff and we need a more traditional crowd control.

We're Tanks man, True, Vanguards do get the tanking skills a little late (such as Storm) but none of the other tank get a CC? So why should we?

Speak for yourself, I'm DPS.

I still don't think we need more CC...we just need pre 2.0 damage, which at the time was still competitive (not OP) versus top performing AC's such as marauder and snipers.

I don't care if we're not TOP DPS...I would just like to compete and be ~5%.

revert our damage, and who needs CC?

Speak for yourself, I'm DPS.

 

I still don't think we need more CC...we just need pre 2.0 damage, which at the time was still competitive (not OP) versus top performing AC's such as marauder and snipers.

 

I don't care if we're not TOP DPS...I would just like to compete and be ~5%.

 

revert our damage, and who needs CC?

The only thing that made us not completely OP before 2.0 was that we didn't have a threat drop. Other than that, yea, pyro was absolutely OP. Top damage plus easiest rotation in the game = OP.

Speak for yourself, I'm DPS.

 

I still don't think we need more CC...we just need pre 2.0 damage, which at the time was still competitive (not OP) versus top performing AC's such as marauder and snipers.

 

I don't care if we're not TOP DPS...I would just like to compete and be ~5%.

 

revert our damage, and who needs CC?

True, but I was talking about Tanking VGs, not DPS. Even as a Tank, VGs cant take as much punishment as, say, a Shadow Tank, and a CC would help us take a guy out of the fight for a while if we accidentally pull them. This is, of course, PvE tank. I've never played PvP as a tank.

True, but I was talking about Tanking VGs, not DPS. Even as a Tank, VGs cant take as much punishment as, say, a Shadow Tank, and a CC would help us take a guy out of the fight for a while if we accidentally pull them. This is, of course, PvE tank. I've never played PvP as a tank.

If talking about tanking, then we must be compared to other tanks, not commandos and such.

and i'm not sure Shadow tanks would agree with you assessment on their ability to absorb more damage.

Not trying to pick apart your thoughts or ideas, I just disagree with VG, tank or DPS, needing more CC.

True, but I was talking about Tanking VGs, not DPS. Even as a Tank, VGs cant take as much punishment as, say, a Shadow Tank, and a CC would help us take a guy out of the fight for a while if we accidentally pull them. This is, of course, PvE tank. I've never played PvP as a tank.

In your original post you talk about (cough knight cough) gets a leap and vanguards don't unless you spec it. You were talking about tanks, so tell me what tank vanguard doesn't take their leap. So your spec consists of you not taking your leap? So do you also want a buff in the tank tree to make your armor higher than heavy? or take it down to medium (cough shadow cough). Last time I checked heavy armor makes you take less damage than medium armor?

True, but I was talking about Tanking VGs, not DPS. Even as a Tank, VGs cant take as much punishment as, say, a Shadow Tank, and a CC would help us take a guy out of the fight for a while if we accidentally pull them. This is, of course, PvE tank. I've never played PvP as a tank.

what level are you?

do you use Accuracy?

do you use Alacrity?

what other tank classes do you play to make your comparison?

if you Accidentally pull something as a shadow you can't 1min CC them any longer...

also about Shadows being able to take more punishment, yes and no, it's like:

pull with CD no damage no damage CD ends no damage no damage 80%dead CD no damage no damage no damage no damage CD ran out no damage dead revive CD no damage no damage no damage 20%live (because it was the wrong CD) healer empty CD ran out no damage dead

and in PVP (in any non 1v1)no one can get within Shouting distance to a Guardian Tank.

(that hasn't changed when 2.0 was implemented only the distance increased, and since a good healer (or two of them) can make a tank out of a Sage DD, it's not a problem)

I wouldn't really say we need a cc but neural surge could use a little buff. Perhaps up its time to 4 seconds. We have the benefit of 2 stuns which is a lot better. Since you can attack the target during a stun. Isn't like you are going to try to ninja cap as a vanguard tank.

Also you say you are a PVE tank, why does it matter if you have a cc when most of the time you can't even use it.

I wouldn't really say we need a cc but neural surge could use a little buff. Perhaps up its time to 4 seconds. We have the benefit of 2 stuns which is a lot better. Since you can attack the target during a stun. Isn't like you are going to try to ninja cap as a vanguard tank.

Also you say you are a PVE tank, why does it matter if you have a cc when most of the time you can't even use it.

I could use a CC in an FP or heroic Mission, especially if i don't have a commando or sage with me.

Vanguards have 2 stuns right? iirc.... 1 single target (cryo grenade) and the aoe one (?)

That is correct. also, you can spec into harpoon immobilizing the target. Oh and storm interrupts AND immobilizes. and you can spec into 30% speed after a storm.

the only thing, besides competitive DPS, I would like on my VG is a push.

I love me some pushing stuff offa cliffs

Van's don't need a CC. there are times when I wish i had one on my guard/jugg, but overall, the guard and Van tank AC's are balance around not having a CC, and having more effective mitigations and defensive CD's. Shadows are balanced around a CC that only works once. out of combat, in stealth. quite a few limitations really. and Since i play a shadow (as well as a guard tank), I can tell you it isn't half as useful as the CC that DPS classes get.

If van's got a CC, then Guards would need one as well. And I guarantee you that we'd probably also lose something focused around our mitigations or defensive CD's, whether talented or not. And I for one am not willing to give up those defenses just to gain a CC. Nor do I think we need one. I've never been kicked from an Op on my guard because I was a tank that couldn't CC. never. ever. It's simply not a group/Op necessity. and solo play the classes do fine.

and even though our "leap" is gated by talents (one of the few reasons I level up as a tank spec so i can GET IT), we also have a Pull as well...something that guards dont have. shadows have the pull, but they don't have a leap (though the get a quickie speed boost...but not the same thing). so were the only class with a fully functional leap and a fully functional yank. im happy with that.

EDIT: Now that you think about it, I almost wish our Leap was default, and our pull was talented. perhaps its because I come from a guard/jugg background, but I enjoy the leap far more then the pull. don't want to lose either tho