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Bring Back The Original PT/VG Patch 3.0 - 4.0

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Vanguard / Powertech
Bring Back The Original PT/VG Patch 3.0 - 4.0

Grxsr's Avatar


Grxsr
07.27.2018 , 10:33 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
Removing 30m range was basically a buff for people like this in PVE. PTs aren't, and weren't supposed to be considered a rdps, but having so many range attacks (even though they may not have been part of the actual rotation or shouldn't be used any more than in corner cases) made a lot of folks treat them as rdps when they shouldn't.

And how does moving jet charge from 2 to 59 change HM/NIM PVE at all?

Feel free to toss insults when you disagree with someone, I'm sure that makes you lots of friends

Why you always got to be so negative? you the same person who endlessly campaign for Merc to be nerf, and instead they Nerf dps and left the survivability.. after that I didn't heard from you anymore except an apology to the Merc community. I personally don't like Maras your favorite class, but you don't see me campaigning for them to be nerf. If you don't like a particular class then don't play it. This thread is in Support of PT/VG. We don't need you to spread your negativity.

And who said PT where not indented to be a Mid - Ranged class? post names! show statements..

Who said it! The ones that came after the Original creators said it? Phrr

Btw: thanks for campaigning for Mercs to be nerf, now in End-game operations we can barely keep up with Maras, Juggs, Snipers, but by all means continue to campaign. They might give us the tone down we need so we can be in line-up with PT/Vgs

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LordTurin
07.27.2018 , 10:37 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
I'm not worried aboit making friends with someone on a forum. And I was merely fighting fire with fire.

And PT if you ever read it was suppoed to be a RANGED TANK. That was how it was billed from the beginning. I really don't see the range anymore.

And yes moving the charge attack from lvl 2 to 59 was a nerf cause now newer players have to re adapt at near the end to suddenly having a charge. Where as JUGG/Guard have it ftom the get go and Sin/Shad have stealth very early on.

Coupled with the fact both classes have far better damage mitigagation(hell mercs, snipers and Marauder have better damage mitigation. Hell sorcs have better damage mitigation ) make the PT/VG a straight downgrade as a tank to eithet of the other two tanking.

But back off that tangent, PT/VG were ranged tanks. Not melee, but longer ranged. Now you take away that range, not ranged tanks anymore are they? That's a nerf since a lot of their survivability was built around that range. And nothing was given to compensate loss of range. That my friend(and I use that term loosely) is a NERF. Anything else you'd like to throw at me?
Ranged tank... ok.

Quote: Originally Posted by Grxsr View Post
Why you always got to be so negative? you the same person who endlessly campaign for Merc to be nerf, and instead they Nerf dps and left the survivability.. after that I didn't heard from you anymore except an apology to the Merc community. I personally don't like Maras your favorite class, but you don't see me campaigning for them to be nerf. If you don't like a particular class then don't play it. This thread is in Support of PT/VG. We don't need you to spread your negativity.

And who said PT where not indented to be a Mid - Ranged class? post names! show statements..

Who said it! The ones that came after the Original creators said it? Phrr

Btw: thanks for campaigning for Mercs to be nerf, now in End-game operations we can barely keep up with Maras, Juggs, Snipers, but by all means continue to campaign. They might give us the tone down we need so we can be in line-up with PT/Vgs
Arsenal Merc is my main... I don't think I ever campaigned for Mercs to be nerfed, in fact I usually am campaigning against them being nerfed. Sorry mate, I think you have me confused with someone else.
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
07.27.2018 , 10:50 AM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by LordTurin View Post
Ranged tank... ok.



Arsenal Merc is my main... I don't think I ever campaigned for Mercs to be nerfed, in fact I usually am campaigning against them being nerfed. Sorry mate, I think you have me confused with someone else.
Yes it is. That's what the devs themselves listed PT/VG. They in the beginning were never meant to be up at melee range. Infact that's gow I learned to tank as a VG. Right outside the 10m mark outside if melee range and then dip ans fade to keep threat up and stuff focused on me or kite a melee target in a raid

That was one of the main features of the PT and why it had less mitigation than other classes. Well devs nerfed the range and put everything at melee range and didn't boost to compensate the range loss. So yes A NERF. But from the looks of it you play a Merc so you got everything the PT needed and could give two ***** less.

And by the by, I flipped to an IO Merc, and yes the Merc needs it's defenses HEAVILY nerfed. RS TR and KO should be completely removed. Have plenty of other **** moves along with self heals. Those 3 abilities should be on the PT, plain and simple.
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Exocor
07.27.2018 , 11:32 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by TalonVII View Post
And PT if you ever read it was suppoed to be a RANGED TANK. That was how it was billed from the beginning. I really don't see the range anymore.
The issue here is that most bosses tend to move towards you if you are out of Melee range. Having a full range tank here would lead to the PT/VG kiting the boss around while doing full damage and taking zero damage. Not very balanced, eh?
Nowadays, you have some abilites with 30m range and if you want to you can skill some additional range-buffs. You can for example have 20m shoulder cannons and 30m on everything for the duration of battle focus/explosive fuel.
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TalonVII
07.27.2018 , 11:41 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Exocor View Post
The issue here is that most bosses tend to move towards you if you are out of Melee range. Having a full range tank here would lead to the PT/VG kiting the boss around while doing full damage and taking zero damage. Not very balanced, eh?
Nowadays, you have some abilites with 30m range and if you want to you can skill some additional range-buffs. You can for example have 20m shoulder cannons and 30m on everything for the duration of battle focus/explosive fuel.
Which yes is an issue but it kept you alive. PT simply does not have the defenses of a Sin or Jugg to stand there and take a massive beating without a healer present.

Hence why either give back the range or beef up the defense. Either way I could care less. But right now, a Merc is a better tank and has better dps to boot. All a Merc needs is a taunt a d it woud be be the perfect tank.
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DenariusJay's Avatar


DenariusJay
07.27.2018 , 01:02 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by zorngodofall View Post
Okay so a few things.. PT's don't need a buff in pve. At all. Full stop. AP is the highest sustained (and overall) burst spec it's not funny. It's a bit asinine it even has 10m abilities considering it's doing top tier melee level damage. Not to mention pyro shield and other point blank effects.

As someone who does a lot of high end raiding (5-6) nights of either full clears of nim or apex boss pulls i can see for sure you are just flat out wrong. What PT's lack in DCD's or raid uility, they make up for in raw damage output, with either spec. PT's are basically a requirement for taking down brontes, while pyro doing less there, still has better burn parses than any other melee class aside from the top 0.01% of melee who can do 8k+ at burn. If anything, their needs to be a redesign of AP and somewhat of a nerf to pyro to bring it in line with other classes.
For the reasons said above. It's got the lowest APM requirments for any melee class (which all require more, and are worse)

For pvp, that's a different monster entirely. I'm not a major pvper but i do understand how flimsy the basic design of pt's is. Honestly, they need to scrap the entire idea of a glass cannon, nerf the damage moderately, and provide it with some form of utility and more DCD's. PT tanka should be changed as well, seeing how unviable those tanks are for a lot of fights.

My two cents
I agree with this post alot. DPS PT in raids are beast modes in the parse charts. They are the best DPS in FP's and alot of other content. The problem is they fall way down to trash tier in PvP because of the lack of DCD's - the only time PT's become redeemable and viable are in Group ranked situations, with team speak and carefully coordinated mezzes + hardswaps.

It annoys me to great end that BW has consistently body slammed my favorite PvP classes over the years with unbuffs after unbuffs and even nerfs (taking away 30% dmg reduction on stun, shame on you BW).
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TalonVII's Avatar


TalonVII
07.27.2018 , 04:57 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by DenariusJay View Post
I agree with this post alot. DPS PT in raids are beast modes in the parse charts. They are the best DPS in FP's and alot of other content. The problem is they fall way down to trash tier in PvP because of the lack of DCD's - the only time PT's become redeemable and viable are in Group ranked situations, with team speak and carefully coordinated mezzes + hardswaps.

It annoys me to great end that BW has consistently body slammed my favorite PvP classes over the years with unbuffs after unbuffs and even nerfs (taking away 30% dmg reduction on stun, shame on you BW).
Sure the DPS mode is amazing. As a tank which it is 1 of the 3, it absolutely sucks and that's where it needs help.
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Grxsr's Avatar


Grxsr
07.28.2018 , 01:50 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by DenariusJay View Post
I agree with this post alot. DPS PT in raids are beast modes in the parse charts. They are the best DPS in FP's and alot of other content. The problem is they fall way down to trash tier in PvP because of the lack of DCD's - the only time PT's become redeemable and viable are in Group ranked situations, with team speak and carefully coordinated mezzes + hardswaps.

It annoys me to great end that BW has consistently body slammed my favorite PvP classes over the years with unbuffs after unbuffs and even nerfs (taking away 30% dmg reduction on stun, shame on you BW).
Because in Operations players can group stuff. Any class that is in constant usage of its AoE abilities will be pulling same numbers as PT or even more, but PT cannot pull those same numbers on single bosses..

I still don't get why some players think PT where not intended to be a Mid - Ranged class? went the Original developers got it right the right the first time..

zorngodofall's Avatar


zorngodofall
07.28.2018 , 05:31 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by Grxsr View Post
Because in Operations players can group stuff. Any class that is in constant usage of its AoE abilities will be pulling same numbers as PT or even more, but PT cannot pull those same numbers on single bosses..

I still don't get why some players think PT where not intended to be a Mid - Ranged class? went the Original developers got it right the right the first time..
No. PT's don't have top parses because of 'fluff' PT's have top parses because of things like pyro shield, shoulder cannons, rebounders and other stuff that requires point blank range. That's why i mentioned brontes burn. There's no fluff, there only however much damage you can dish out because you have to push hands (shoulder cannons, pyro shield, blowing your heat) before you reset the stacks. That's a lot of the reasons why PT's blow everything else out of the water.

Another fight as an example. Tyrans nim, PT's are classified as a melee dps there and get parses as much as 1k higher than other specs just because of passives and unique utility, as well as top tier dps. Pyro has like the second highest dps on a dummy on parsely as well. If you are getting low parses or lower parses than other people it's a skill based result, not a class based result.

I'm not going to be one of those people who tell you to 'git gud' just rather the truth to how these classes work and where they line up vs other dps. I main a carnage marauder, a class that was mutilated throught the start and twice more during 5.0. It's like the 4th lowest dps parse wise yet i am regularly able to get top parses, not only for my spec but for fights in general.

It comes down to knowing your class inside and out and know how to apply that knowledge of your class to whatever circumstances you are facing. PT's may not be as viable in pvp because of a lack of defensives but i don' think you can write them off completely. It doesn't even take a viable class to be a viable dps, it takes being a good player to make a sub optimal class function and excel.

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TalonVII
07.29.2018 , 09:39 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by zorngodofall View Post
No. PT's don't have top parses because of 'fluff' PT's have top parses because of things like pyro shield, shoulder cannons, rebounders and other stuff that requires point blank range. That's why i mentioned brontes burn. There's no fluff, there only however much damage you can dish out because you have to push hands (shoulder cannons, pyro shield, blowing your heat) before you reset the stacks. That's a lot of the reasons why PT's blow everything else out of the water.

Another fight as an example. Tyrans nim, PT's are classified as a melee dps there and get parses as much as 1k higher than other specs just because of passives and unique utility, as well as top tier dps. Pyro has like the second highest dps on a dummy on parsely as well. If you are getting low parses or lower parses than other people it's a skill based result, not a class based result.

I'm not going to be one of those people who tell you to 'git gud' just rather the truth to how these classes work and where they line up vs other dps. I main a carnage marauder, a class that was mutilated throught the start and twice more during 5.0. It's like the 4th lowest dps parse wise yet i am regularly able to get top parses, not only for my spec but for fights in general.

It comes down to knowing your class inside and out and know how to apply that knowledge of your class to whatever circumstances you are facing. PT's may not be as viable in pvp because of a lack of defensives but i don' think you can write them off completely. It doesn't even take a viable class to be a viable dps, it takes being a good player to make a sub optimal class function and excel.
And noone is arguing that the DPS sucks. Or if they are, IMHO they are arguing the wrong case. PT/VG primary role is TANK, just like shad/sin guar/jugg. And out of the 3 tanking classes, they are the absolute worst.

That needs to change.
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