Please redo the Aug Kit recipes! To make an Aug Kit MK-1 thru 10, it takes 92 mats. Now to make a MK-11, it suddenly takes 880 mats!!! Look at the 2 recipes and do the math. I really feel like I'm being punished for crafting!

Aug Kit MK-10, Synthweaving

10 Aug Slot Component MK-10 (or 10 Attachments = 60 mats)

4 Code Recombinator

4 Romex

4 Iridescent Bondar Synth Bonded Attachment, crafted:

. . 2 Travella Cloth

. . 2 Iridescent Bondar Crystal

. . 2 Iridescent Bondar Artifact Fragment

60 + 4 + 4 + 4(2 + 2 + 2) = 92

Aug Kit MK-11, Armstech (or 10 Attachments = 280 mats)

10 Aug Slot Component MK-11

20 Prototype Data Spike

20 Prototype Dallorian Scraps

5 Prototype Duranium Arms Assembly Component, crafted:

. . 3 Premium Duranium Arms Assembly Component, crafted:

. . . . 10 Premium Tempersteel

. . . . 10 Prmium Duranium Plating

. . . . 8 Standard Flerovium Flux

. . 10 Prototype Tempersteel

. . 8 Premium Flerovium Flux

. . 10 Protype Duranium Plating

(10 * 28) + 20 + 20 + 5(3(10 + 10 + 8) + 10 + 8 + 10) = 880

I can send several toons' companions on mat-gathering missions for an hour and make 150 MK-10's, whereas I can only make a dozen MK-11's. Time, cost, extremely poor yield...yes, I feel like I'm being punished for being a crafter.

Can't you look at a spread sheet and work out what is likely to happen if you reduce a drop-rate by 15%?

Can't you figure out that happens if you increase "materials needed" by 50%?

50% OMG, whip out your calculator. As I posted later in this thread, it takes 92 mats to make every Aug Kit MK-1 thru MK-10, then along comes MK-11 with an insane 880 mats!

Probably a dumb question, but when does this patch go live ?

Think they said this Thursday.

50% OMG, whip out your calculator. As I posted later in this thread, it takes 92 mats to make every Aug Kit MK-1 thru MK-10, then along comes MK-11 with an insane 880 mats!

They were generic examples of what can easily be done with a spreadsheet.

Not specific examples of the debacle that was 6.0 Crafting.

All The Best

Hey all,

 

We have been reading your feedback since Onslaught launched (and of course from PTS beforehand) on your feelings on the current state of crafting. We agree with your feedback that it isn’t where we want it to be either. There are quite a few changes planned for 6.0.2 in December and we want to give you a preview of those changes today. As 6.0.2 will not have its own PTS, please use this thread to share your feedback on the changes.

 

• The materials required for “material combination” schematics was too high. We are making the following changes:
  
  • Premium and Prototype material requirements have been reduced to 6 each (down from 10).
    
  • Artifact material requirements have been reduced to 12 each (down from 15).
    
  • The requirements to convert Premium combination materials to Prototype has been reduced to 2 (down from 3).
    

  [*]Although we want to incentivize harvesting over missions for gathering skills, mission inflow was a little too low:

  • Increase overall inflow of Premium quality materials from Missions.
    
  • Increase material rewards from Wealthy Yield Missions.
    
  • Reduce the overall failure rate of “grey” quality Missions.
    

  [*]Getting crafting schematics when deconstructing gear was too hard with too low of a chance:

  • Broadly increased the chance to earn crafting schematics from deconstructing.
    
  • Sort of related, we are making a pass to ensure that deconstruction is giving the correct professions materials. Raise any specifics you have where this isn’t the case.
    

  [*]Too high of a requirement for Matrixes when crafting:

  • The Matrix material requirement has been removed from all schematics below Artifact quality.
    
  • We are looking closely at data around inflow of Legendary Ember requirements. We may increase requirements here but this is still being investigated.
    

  [*]The materials that you are earning are not coming in at the correct ratio of Premium : Prototype : Artifact to correlate with expenditure:

  • Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
    

These are all currently planned changes for 6.0.2 so please let us know your thoughts. As always, we will continue to monitor crafting data and your feedback post-6.0.2 and make further changes as needed! Thanks everyone.

 

-eric

Reduced 1 million credit cost down to 50000 with fragment cost on fleet station. Reduced the cost crafting materials to 1 for crafting. We need easy crafting accomplishment to craft without slow grinding for materials. Not grinding 24 hours or more for accomplishment.

The new crafting "system" is god awful. I'm very sceptical that the proposed changes will be enough. Been playing since Beta, and this is the first time ever mates and I are looking at skipping crafting altogether til next expansion (as we unsub).

Make Crafting Much Harder: (not) a brilliant way to bleed and drag out grind time

Well, we shall see what they do this Thursday, Dec 12. That's when the next patch is planned to be released.

Tuesday, Dec 17th.

Tuesday, Dec 17th.

was supposed to be thursday the 12th, have they changed the damn thing again?

• Rebalancing material inflow to match a 7:2:1 ratio that many of you have raised.
  

So I guess now is about the right time to buy up all the cheap artifact grade 11 materials on the GTN.

was supposed to be thursday the 12th, have they changed the damn thing again?

last post i saw about this topic said s.th. along the lines that they are starting life day event at Dec 17th, because 6.0.2 includes the files to prepare the event and is released on thursday this week.

so unless we missed s.th., its Dec 12th.

So I guess now is about the right time to buy up all the cheap artifact grade 11 materials on the GTN.

That's a bet that may pay off, or not, depending on what changes they make.

Given their history though, I can easily see them screwing up the 're-balance' such that purple and blue materials become excessively rare, and we all end up drowning in greens.

Hello Eric,

I am loyal player and in the game for about 7 years and yes i can agree this version for crafting tends to be unbalanced. (to much costs, to low chance for learning augments) That being said, it was already pointed out by several players on PTS.

Now the version is live people (including myself) have spended several hundreds of millionsof credits learning the new schematics. This choice for players to spend that much credits was based upon the idea that this is the crafting system for version 6. If people new this would change they would not have burned that much credits and materials.

Changing to crafting system at this point in time is basicaly unfair to every player that has grinded for months or even years obtaining those credits, spending these same hard earned credits on getting the new schematics.

Now that people have several schematics after burning huge amounts of credits, decreasing the materials needed, and upgrading the chance of learning schematics is enormously unfair to all players that already have schematics. people wanted to craft for their own use, help friends and make sales on GTN and earn their credits back by having a rare schematic.

I agree that it is to hard to get the new schematics, but the unfairness of the change in this point of time must be handled delicatly. The only way i think a change in the crafting system can be implemented fairly is this:

1) Test yourselve how many materials you use right now to learn schematics. (calculate the materials needed by GTN prices how much credits this takes)

2) Test on PTS the 6.0.2 materials needed with lower material cost and higher chance.

Lets say version 1 takes 125.000.000 credits to learn a schematic, version 2 takes 50.000.000.

Then Run a database check over all legacies, and currently obtained schematics. Those who have already learned a schematic should get a refund of 75.000.000 credits per currently learned schematic. The refund could take place by legacy bank.

This way, schematics are easier obtainable, and players that burned to much credits get a refund. This way all players can live with a change at this point in time.

Hope you like the idea and can work with it!

That's a bet that may pay off, or not, depending on what changes they make.

 

Given their history though, I can easily see them screwing up the 're-balance' such that purple and blue materials become excessively rare, and we all end up drowning in greens.

Indeed, considering they were selling sub 1k on my server I may take that bet. Especially if it's rebalanced 7:2:1.

Now the version is live people (including myself) have spended several hundreds of millionsof credits learning the new schematics. This choice for players to spend that much credits was based upon the idea that this is the crafting system for version 6. If people new this would change they would not have burned that much credits and materials.

 

Changing to crafting system at this point in time is basicaly unfair to every player that has grinded for months or even years obtaining those credits, spending these same hard earned credits on getting the new schematics.

You are right. The changes are unfair to those who have invested time and resources into advancing their 6.0 crafting skills. In one of my many PTS feedback posts, I predicted this. The following quote was in the context of the some relatively minor crew skill changes BW made "in response" to our feedback (of course, our feedback was actually asking for much more severe changes); I have bolded the part especially relevant to you:

I appreciate that devs probably want to take things incrementally rather than making many huge changes all at once (though, if I may be permitted some snark, that doesn't seem to have stopped ye designing a system with many huge changes all at once). However, there is a really good case to be made for making more drastic changes before 6.0 launches. If you still keep time and materials costs relatively high in 6.0 (and they absolutely are still high, by comparison to pre-6.0 crafting, even with these reductions, though of course you haven't given us specific % on every change you made), and then feedback is so anguished that you eventually bring costs down to be much closer to pre-6.0 norms, a lot of early adopters will have wasted a lot of time and materials. And some of those players may be gone from the game by the time you make further changes. You could, instead, believe the severity of the feedback we're giving you now, and make deeper changes that'll make things less painful for everyone when 6.0 launches. Changes that will let crafting actually be fun. We are, I trust, still playing RPGs to have fun, not to work a second job.

You seem to have read much of the PTS feedback, so you probably know already that we predicted early adopters being burned. It is a shame and should have been avoided, either by making more drastic changes before the release of 6.0 or by not making grade 11 crafting so needlessly expensive and convoluted in the first place.

However, I must note two things.

Firstly, as unfair as it feels to early adopters to make the proposed changes, it would be more unfair to the entire player base not to make the changes. BW should not keep crafting in a painful state for years going forwards when they have the power to make it much less painful - maybe even enjoyable (gasp!). It is fundamentally dysfunctional to keep hurting the crafting experience going forwards just because some players chose to accept the pain in the first couple of months.

And, secondly, exactly that: I am truly sad to say this, but you did choose to accept this pain by advancing 6.0 crafting in spite of its costs. I am a crafter from launch and I chose to opt out of most of grade 11 crafting. I trained all my crew skills to 700 at a cost of 500k each, and I have paid some tech fragments and millions to get schematics from Kai, but otherwise I have not poured significant resources into the excruciating process of grade 11 REing / deconstruction. My reason? I put weeks into testing crafting on PTS with its limitless resources, and didn't even make much progress there, so I knew I would hate throwing my hard-won resources on the live server into this near-bottomless pit. I gave copious feedback on my experiences, so that people who didn't have the time to do the same level of testing might still benefit from my experience and could make more informed choices about whether to go forwards with grade 11 crafting (though of course I know that the readership of the forum is limited compared to the wider player base). Now, by saying that you had the option of choosing to wait, but you didn't, I don't blame you. Fundamentally, the one(s) at fault here would be whoever at BW thought of and implemented this ridiculous grade 11 crafting. That cannot and should not be avoided. So I really am not saying any of this is your fault. You should never have been put in this position. But you were, and now here you are.

I say all this not in a tone-deaf spirit of "I told you so" or any such pointless cruelty, but because I think that your compensatory suggestion is (unfortunately!) out of touch with reality and will never be implemented by Bioware.

1) Test yourselve how many materials you use right now to learn schematics. (calculate the materials needed by GTN prices how much credits this takes)

2) Test on PTS the 6.0.2 materials needed with lower material cost and higher chance.

 

Lets say version 1 takes 125.000.000 credits to learn a schematic, version 2 takes 50.000.000.

Then Run a database check over all legacies, and currently obtained schematics. Those who have already learned a schematic should get a refund of 75.000.000 credits per currently learned schematic. The refund could take place by legacy bank.

GTN materials prices fluctuate by the minute and are entirely dictated by players. Further, the low % chance to learn a schematic means that one player might succeed a 5% check on the first attempt, another player might not succeed until the 30th attempt, and another player still might make 40 attempts before they give up and gain no schematic. How are the different amounts of resources they sunk into grade 11 crafting to be remotely fairly approximated, under your idea?

Additionally, consider where the costs of these various resources came from and where they went. If, as you are suggesting, GTN materials price should be the deciding factor, well... those credits went somewhere, didn't they? If you bought your materials from another player, the credits you spent didn't leave the game (minus the 8% GTN tax, if you used the GTN). They ended up with someone else, and are still with someone else in the game right now (unless spent on credit sinks). So for BW to pay you back those credits would essentially be injecting a large amount of additional credits into the game at a time when it's pretty clear that they are actually trying to implement the very opposite, namely credit sinks.

Possibly at some level you realize all this. You are just in mourning and denial over the losses you incurred by going along with this crafting, thinking this was "it" for the foreseeable future. I sympathize. I wish it hadn't come to this. We have to move forwards, and it's a shame that early adopters will be hurt. If anyone can come up with compensatory suggestions that BW might actually accept, by all means do share them; perhaps you will achieve some success (though not before 6.0.2, of course, assuming it's still scheduled for Thursday; I don't think any suggestion could be implemented that quickly).

GTN materials prices fluctuate by the minute and are entirely dictated by players. Further, the low % chance to learn a schematic means that one player might succeed a 5% check on the first attempt, another player might not succeed until the 30th attempt, and another player still might make 40 attempts before they give up and gain no schematic. How are the different amounts of resources they sunk into grade 11 crafting to be remotely fairly approximated, under your idea?

Absolutely agree with your post.

On this part, I also agree, it wouldn't be fair. Some of my grade 11 crafting I have done is purely for stims / medpacs and it was painful on a few, and on some other parts relatively easy (within the confines of grade 11 crafting as it was given to us). Some parts of it however I just completely gave up on due to cost / materials.

I'll wait until BioWare fix it. The patch will be a step in the right direction, I still think material cost and time to craft will be an issue for many players.

I've not gone anywhere near grade 11 augments and have zero intention of doing so, it's faster and cheaper for me to craft 228s and the associated aug kits. Until the RE chance is addressed properly I'm likely to stick with the lesser augments for the entire 6.x cycle.

Welp changes were made.... and they are worse than a bad joke....

• materials inflow ratios are still way off from the materials requirments
  
• multi material returns (missions and harvest) use too small a fixed portion, and much to high a random fill, resulting in large inbalances
  
• multiple material types (both gather and mission) have bugged uneven distributions due to only returning their fixed portion, but not the random portion
  
• schematic drop rates were NOT fixed
  
• Schematic costs for several items were not fixed
  
• schematic costs for fixed stat gear, item modifications, and new sets/tacticals are still absurdly overpriced
  
• +critical amplifiers still do nothing
  
• new set gear schematics still have useless broken descriptions
  
• there is some chicanery going on with crit rates for orange difficulty goods
  
• some old conquest materials are inaccessible by level 75 toons
  
• and display bugs surrounding crafting bonuses that have been going for a year now.
  

and those are just off the top of my head.

Welp changes were made.... and they are worse than a bad joke....

• materials inflow ratios are still way off from the materials requirments
  
• multi material returns (missions and harvest) use too small a fixed portion, and much to high a random fill, resulting in large inbalances
  
• multiple material types (both gather and mission) have bugged uneven distributions due to only returning their fixed portion, but not the random portion
  
• schematic drop rates were NOT fixed
  
• Schematic costs for several items were not fixed
  
• schematic costs for fixed stat gear, item modifications, and new sets/tacticals are still absurdly overpriced
  
• +critical amplifiers still do nothing
  
• new set gear schematics still have useless broken descriptions
  
• there is some chicanery going on with crit rates for orange difficulty goods
  
• some old conquest materials are inaccessible by level 75 toons
  
• and display bugs surrounding crafting bonuses that have been going for a year now.
  

 

and those are just off the top of my head.

The question is whether this is due to malice or sheer incompetence.

Personally, I'm going to go with incompetence - of the management 'we just don't give a crap' variety.

Crafting has always been a bit of an afterthought - though as long as each expansion's crafting changes were a simple copy / paste job from what came before, crafting was not all that bad.

But the current iteration is low quality garbage - and shows an appalling lack of oversight and an inability to manage changes of this magnitude on the part of the studio.

The question is whether this is due to malice or sheer incompetence.

 

Personally, I'm going to go with incompetence - of the management 'we just don't give a crap' variety.

 

Crafting has always been a bit of an afterthought - though as long as each expansion's crafting changes were a simple copy / paste job from what came before, crafting was not all that bad.

 

But the current iteration is low quality garbage - and shows an appalling lack of oversight and an inability to manage changes of this magnitude on the part of the studio.

Before this patch I might've thought so, even though it seems to fit the pattern in this expansion of trying to drain the player-base of their resources, but this was such an insultingly tiny step in the right direction that it seems pretty clear that this is what they want, and they're just trying to figure out how little they need to move before most of the complaining stops.

I still need FP drops for green crap

Welcome to the new SWTOR " Raid or die", following the footsteps of such enormously successful games like Wildstar.

Aside from Biochem and Diplomacy Grade 11 materials, I'm selling the rest on the GTN for credits as Grade 11 crafting is still pretty much broken, this update (or lack thereof) is such a small shift in the right direction that I'm led to believe that this is how BioWare want the crafting system to be.

The lack of detail in the patch notes, or the clarification of a number of changes introduced in 6.0 (crafting amplifiers, base critical rates being forthcoming etc) makes me feel like BioWare are trying to pull a fast one on players hoping they don't notice.

BioWare are not listening to the feedback being given.

• Material requirements are still too high.
  
• Supplementary materials cost is still too high.
  
• Wealthy yield missions still only provide a single Legendary Ember, that hasn't changed (misleading patch notes).
  
• Failure rate of missions on Rank 50 companions should not happen, regardless of amplifiers on gear (If BioWare want people to spend credits, make it worthwhile doing so).
  
• Reverse Engineering rates have not been addressed properly, 5% isn't an acceptable rate for anything considering material and time cost. Green reverse engineer probability needs to be higher than blues, which needs to be higher than purples (20% would be ideal for purple reverse engineer chance). 40% / 30% / 20% is my suggestion.
  
• Required assembly components for Artifact assembly components needs to be lowered to 2, 3 is too high.
  
• Supplementary materials required for assembly components needs to be the same as the other materials.
  
• Premium components should only require 2 / 2 / 2
  
• Prototype components should only require 4 / 4 / 4 + 2 Premium assembly components.
  
• Artifact components should only require 6 / 6 / 6 + 2 Prototype assembly components.
  
• Legendary items should only require 8 / 8 / 8 + 3 Artifact assembly components + 3 Legendary Embers.
  
• Material requirements should be the same across all crafting professions, the same as RE probability.