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Changes to Operation Drops in 5.2


EricMusco

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Doesn't GSF kick AFKers? I know you get that ominous "You're not contributing" message if you just sit there...

 

You only get to kick people if you managed to persuade 50% or more to vote the "afk" person out of the match if they have stopped contributing.

 

A reduction in rewards for GSF and PvP is needed, you should at least need to get "some" medals to get rewards.

 

From many matches in GSF I have seen though, many new players don't get any medals even if they try when playing against "better" players (be it skill or ship upgrades).

 

In GSF if you get 0 medals you get 0 CXP, 0 ship and fleet req, and 0 UC's

The AFK person won't care about ship upgrades, cause for afk you don't need upgrades :rolleyes:

 

wrong u get unassembled components no matter what. go try.

correct. components, cxp for afk - bad design. cutoffpoint needs to be a certain amount of medals as minimum.

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correct. components, cxp for afk - bad design. cutoffpoint needs to be a certain amount of medals as minimum.

 

Same for pvp may that be ranked or unranked. No medals needed for the unassembled component reward. Even if there was a medal amount needed go do a heal an attack and a taunt and bam you are at 7, now you can go hide in a corner.

Edited by Xcurtx
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Same for pvp may that be ranked or unranked. No medals needed for the unassembled component reward. Even if there was a medal amount needed go do a heal an attack and a taunt and bam you are at 7, now you can go hide in a corner.

 

Problem is if you set the cut-off point to high, or require some other arbitrary kind of "needed x amount" of activity, the complains would be even higher.

 

On the other hand you can and will be again able to get the BiS gear in the game... from standing in a corner. That should never be the case and makes a joke out of guilds that clear or try to clear nim/master mode operations.

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Exactly, you can AFK GSF or PVP matches.

 

GSF is king in this as you are more likely to be carried by the group, mainly playing imp side due to SMW premades that faceroll the enemies. You can just afk and got up to 2200 cxp for doing nothing!! Not to mention 10 components for the win.

 

This is absolutely silly compared to doing Operations, which require your full attention, skill, gear etc. PVP and GSF offers simple acces (click to que) no repair costs, no gear, no skill etc.

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Used to be a carrot called endgame gear in the hardest operations.

 

Now any monkey can afk farm endgame gear or low skill farm flashpoints and get the same thing.

 

Meanwhile loot from bosses is turned into garbage RNG.

 

Now the U turn on reversing it and putting back reliable drops from bosses.

 

We are still guaranteed the comedy of being able to get the same best loot from afking and farming of any old junk alongside this because why not leave the obvious gear devaluing issue in there.

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Another one for the Ignore list

 

Really? YOU are ignoring ME after you personally attack me out of the blue for no reason? see below quote

 

What's your problem? Why is easy, quick gearing a problem? Unless you can't stand seeing other people get the gear they want? This seems to be not just jealousy but the basest desire to deny other people what they want. You should look into yourself, there's a serious character flaw here that might be extending into your real life.

 

All because I want EV KP to drop less loot than 4.0.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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I already addressed you claiming this wasn't purely an elitist sentiment here on the other thread regarding EV and KP HM loot drops. You admitted you were addressing this from an elitist standpoint. Good job trying to pivot though.

 

:rak_03:

 

That's why I'm cracking on masterceil about his comment. :D

 

 

Didn't I address it from both practical and elitist standpoint? Do I need to look back 10 pages to read what I wrote in another thread? Nice callback though :rak_tongue:

 

Does anyone care about loot balance from a "non-elitist" standpoint? I don't think I stated my opinion on this in a smarmy or degrading way. The EV/KP HM loot drops still have to be decent for people to do them often enough to keep the analytics numbers fluffed up.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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Why are so many people opposed to easy gearing? I think the gist of another recent request was asking if the set-bonus armoring could be BoP and disallowed from Legacy gear? If a group of players want to gear up with EV and KP, what business is it of yours?

 

TBH, I wouldn't want people running the harder ops with me solely out of "obligation" to get the best gear. If they're content to run EV and KP, let 'em. There are still people willing to run Rav and ToS for the sheer pleasure of running those ops, and they're the ones I'd rather run with, anyway.

 

Yall just lookin' to punish people for not wanting to run harder ops with you? So because they won't play on your court, you have to take their ball away? They take nothing from you in gearing up solely with EV/KP - why do you want to take away from them?

To invert this statement: Why should you limit specific items like a mainhand, etc. to more difficult OPs, why would you limit the drop chance to 1 item per boss (rather than 1 per player) and why would you restrict the availability of certain items to operations in general (they could drop in flashpoints as well)? So why would you be opposed to these forms of 'easy grinding'?

 

BioWare could introduce a vendor for these items, could introduce more crafting recipes, could make all the items legacy bound right away or even give them away for free. If a group of players prefers to get their items that way, who are you to deny them that?

 

Or let's apply the same scenario to PvP:

BioWare could make every item except the mainhand, offhand, head and maybe the chest purchasable for a single unassembled component (UC). Let's then accuse anyone who would question this uneven / unfair UC requirement of ruining the PvP metric.... Who cares if these players get slaughtered, flamed for their lack of experience (in hutball f.e.) and might propably never return. As long as they've made the PvP metric look better, who would care about the rest? Why would anyone ever question a disparity, inequity or exploit?

____

 

So it's not about whether a character should get the gear or not. and it surely isn't a black-&-white decision. It's about the question how to come up with a system that's fair to everyone... especially to new players.

 

And in that regard, 4.0 wasn't really a good system.

 

To make the items bound on pickup f.e. (or to prevent the mods from being inserted into legacy gear) wouldn't stop any player from running EV & KP. BUT it would stop players from using their fully equipped main character to equip a long-forgotten alt.

 

That then resulted in a lot of tension between players. The better equipped players were eager to blame the less equipped players for anything, if not for at least making the run longer than necessary. I can remember countless of runs where unexperienced tanks & healers had to face a lot of hatred because they didn't satisfy the expectations of the better equipped players (but I bet it was pure coincidence that the well equipped characters tend to be primarily DDs ;) ). So some players got kicked & replaced by guildmates, others weren't even invited... what a healthy community.

 

Furthermore, the less equipped players then had a hard time fighting for their gear, because a token could always be used to equip another alt, even one that does not yet exist. Which then resulted in lovely things like players being adviced to skip their roll on a certain item or to trade their token for another one they were also missing. In many cases, the loot master simply changed the order in which the players roll for the items, leaving the one he/she needed the most for last.

 

And that's just the 'bound-on-pickup' part. In regard of the difficulty level, the number of rewards and the 'item overlap' in EV & KP: That's a matter of diversity!

 

One of the greatest achievements of 4.0 was that the level-sync made the existing content (i.e. all the operation) viable again. Theoretically, players were free to choose to run whatever operation they want. But the truth was that the difficulty level wasn't even despite the level-sync.

 

Now, the more items you make available in EV & KP, the more often a player is 'pushed' to repeat these two operations only. Not out of their own desire to choose the most easiest run, but due to the behavior & responses of other players, should they try to join a different OP.

 

If BioWare would limit the rewards instead (f.e. by increasing the item overlap), more players will be tempted to choose another operation, which would then lower the 'entrance barrier' and smoothening the gear progression as well as increasing the overall variety. Because despite the fact that the highlighted operations had their own noticable downsides in 4.0 (but who would ever oppose this form of 'easy grinding', right?), they at least gave players an incentive to try out more challenging operations.

Edited by realleaftea
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Hey folks,

 

If you haven’t read it yet, we recommend you head over to the “Tier 4 in Game Update 5.2” thread and learn about the new Tier of gear coming next Update. Along with the new Tier of gear, we are making quite a few changes to what gear drops in Operations. For endgame PvE players we know there is a desire to gear primarily through Operations.

 

For existing Operations (Tier 1 will no longer drop in Operations)

  • Tier 2 Legendary Gear - Story Mode
  • Tier 3 Legendary Gear – Veteran Mode
  • Tier 4 Prototype and Artifact Gear – Master Mode (Non-final bosses)
  • Tier 4 Legendary Gear – Master Mode (Final bosses)

For Gods from the Machine Operations:

  • Tier 3 – Story Mode
  • Tier 4 – Veteran Mode

 

As you can see there a lot of changes with Operation gear drops in 5.2! Let us know your thoughts on these changes.

 

-eric

 

Does a player have to be Command Rank 300 (or what ever rank it is that drops tiers 2 and 3) to receive or cash in the token or can a CR 60 toon run HM S&V and get the Tier 3 gloves from Titan 6?

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Does a player have to be Command Rank 300 (or what ever rank it is that drops tiers 2 and 3) to receive or cash in the token or can a CR 60 toon run HM S&V and get the Tier 3 gloves from Titan 6?

 

I assume it is like now and turn them in at the right Vendor in the Supplies section without needing the GC rank.

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To invert this statement: Why should you limit specific items like a mainhand, etc. to more difficult OPs, why would you limit the drop chance to 1 item per boss (rather than 1 per player) and why would you restrict the availability of certain items to operations in general (they could drop in flashpoints as well)? So why would you be opposed to these forms of 'easy grinding'?

 

BioWare could introduce a vendor for these items, could introduce more crafting recipes, could make all the items legacy bound right away or even give them away for free. If a group of players prefers to get their items that way, who are you to deny them that?

 

Or let's apply the same scenario to PvP:

BioWare could make every item except the mainhand, offhand, head and maybe the chest purchasable for a single unassembled component (UC). Let's then accuse anyone who would question this uneven / unfair UC requirement of ruining the PvP metric.... Who cares if these players get slaughtered, flamed for their lack of experience (in hutball f.e.) and might propably never return. As long as they've made the PvP metric look better, who would care about the rest? Why would anyone ever question a disparity, inequity or exploit?

____

 

So it's not about whether a character should get the gear or not. and it surely isn't a black-&-white decision. It's about the question how to come up with a system that's fair to everyone... especially to new players.

 

And in that regard, 4.0 wasn't really a good system.

 

To make the items bound on pickup f.e. (or to prevent the mods from being inserted into legacy gear) wouldn't stop any player from running EV & KP. BUT it would stop players from using their fully equipped main character to equip a long-forgotten alt.

 

That then resulted in a lot of tension between players. The better equipped players were eager to blame the less equipped players for anything, if not for at least making the run longer than necessary. I can remember countless of runs where unexperienced tanks & healers had to face a lot of hatred because they didn't satisfy the expectations of the better equipped players (but I bet it was pure coincidence that the well equipped characters tend to be primarily DDs ;) ). So some players got kicked & replaced by guildmates, others weren't even invited... what a healthy community.

 

Furthermore, the less equipped players then had a hard time fighting for their gear, because a token could always be used to equip another alt, even one that does not yet exist. Which then resulted in lovely things like players being adviced to skip their roll on a certain item or to trade their token for another one they were also missing. In many cases, the loot master simply changed the order in which the players roll for the items, leaving the one he/she needed the most for last.

 

And that's just the 'bound-on-pickup' part. In regard of the difficulty level, the number of rewards and the 'item overlap' in EV & KP: That's a matter of diversity!

 

One of the greatest achievements of 4.0 was that the level-sync made the existing content (i.e. all the operation) viable again. Theoretically, players were free to choose to run whatever operation they want. But the truth was that the difficulty level wasn't even despite the level-sync.

 

Now, the more items you make available in EV & KP, the more often a player is 'pushed' to repeat these two operations only. Not out of their own desire to choose the most easiest run, but due to the behavior & responses of other players, should they try to join a different OP.

 

If BioWare would limit the rewards instead (f.e. by increasing the item overlap), more players will be tempted to choose another operation, which would then lower the 'entrance barrier' and smoothening the gear progression as well as increasing the overall variety. Because despite the fact that the highlighted operations had their own noticable downsides in 4.0 (but who would ever oppose this form of 'easy grinding', right?), they at least gave players an incentive to try out more challenging operations.

 

I'm confused... The tone of your post feels like it's trying to disagree with me, but the content looks like you're agreeing with me.

 

For the record, I would indeed prefer ops drops go to all players. I realise that for most people this would decimate the replayability of Operations (namely, for those that solely do ops for gear), and that's why it won't happen. But I'm all for easier access to gear. But we're talking about what's actually happening, not about other alternative gearing suggestions (such as just selling BiS on a vendor - which they basically do with unassembled components).

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You can get full set bonus from EV/KP, gives little reason to ever play any of the other veteran modes. Let them stay at tier 2, their difficultty is pretty much on par with story modes. And then consider upping rewards for veteran Revan, master & blaster and Cora.

 

I agree with this statement.

 

One of the issues is reward in operations. If you can get a full set of gear from EV/KP then what is the incentive to do the harder operations? For example, my guild was progressing through Rav HM in 4.0. I remember the first time we took down Torque. It dropped an earpiece. No one needed that earpiece because we all had gotten it from EV/KP. The only thing we could do with it was random it out and whoever won it sell it to a vendor for a few credits. It felt like more of a slap in the face rather than a reward. We basically gave up progression raiding at some point as most of the group preferred getting rewards from doing easy content than the constant wiping leading to getting the next boss down. We used to have both.

 

How about another approach: Each operation boss still drops 1-2 pieces, but an operation only rewards 1-2 types of gear. E.g. EV first 4 bosses drop implants and Soa 2 earpieces. KP first 4 bosses drop relics and Karagga 2 offhands. This should encourage everyone to play all operations instead of just EV/KP and still give great rewards for those progressing through any of the operations. It has other benefits: If you want a specific piece you have a way higher chance of getting it by targeting an operation that drops it. Avoids the issue where the only piece you want is on the first boss. You lose out on the /roll and have no other loot to look forward to for the rest of the operation. With my example it is also a bit more alt friendly IMO. You can run EV/KP to gear alts for the non-legacy transferable pieces (other pieces can be gotten by your main and transferred in legacy gear).

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I agree with this statement.

 

One of the issues is reward in operations. If you can get a full set of gear from EV/KP then what is the incentive to do the harder operations? For example, my guild was progressing through Rav HM in 4.0. I remember the first time we took down Torque. It dropped an earpiece. No one needed that earpiece because we all had gotten it from EV/KP. The only thing we could do with it was random it out and whoever won it sell it to a vendor for a few credits. It felt like more of a slap in the face rather than a reward. We basically gave up progression raiding at some point as most of the group preferred getting rewards from doing easy content than the constant wiping leading to getting the next boss down. We used to have both.

 

How about another approach: Each operation boss still drops 1-2 pieces, but an operation only rewards 1-2 types of gear. E.g. EV first 4 bosses drop implants and Soa 2 earpieces. KP first 4 bosses drop relics and Karagga 2 offhands. This should encourage everyone to play all operations instead of just EV/KP and still give great rewards for those progressing through any of the operations. It has other benefits: If you want a specific piece you have a way higher chance of getting it by targeting an operation that drops it. Avoids the issue where the only piece you want is on the first boss. You lose out on the /roll and have no other loot to look forward to for the rest of the operation. With my example it is also a bit more alt friendly IMO. You can run EV/KP to gear alts for the non-legacy transferable pieces (other pieces can be gotten by your main and transferred in legacy gear).

 

No, messing with the loot of the other Operations to deal woth EV/KP is not how you handle it. Personally I would make those bosses drop SM gear only besides final boss drop HM. Then again none are BiS so it doesn't matter as much.

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No, messing with the loot of the other Operations to deal with EV/KP is not how you handle it.

 

I don't think this is just an issue with EV/KP. Rav/ToS are significantly harder than other veteran operations. Most will avoid them when gearing up in favour of the easier ops. Then when they progress through them there will be no reward. With galactic command Bioware have been encouraging players to do all content by giving reward roughly equal reward for the time spent and the difficulty. I think that is a good thing and should continue. With the current distribution that would not be the case. Discourage players from farming EV/KP, will only move them to farm TfB, etc. It would be better to encourage them to play all operations.

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  • 1 month later...

Eric,

 

According to your list, you are saying that MM non-final bosses are supposed to drop Tier 4 Prototype and Artifact gear. I have not found those vendors anywhere on the fleet. Am I missing something? The Tier 4 vendor I did find only sold Legendary...

 

- vicadin

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Eric,

 

According to your list, you are saying that MM non-final bosses are supposed to drop Tier 4 Prototype and Artifact gear. I have not found those vendors anywhere on the fleet. Am I missing something? The Tier 4 vendor I did find only sold Legendary...

 

- vicadin

 

It's because the gear dropped by NiM/MM are not tokens, they are premade pieces. See this post for an example:

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showpost.php?p=9283546&postcount=5

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