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6.0 Utility change suggestions


LunarAshes

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One thing that always gets me when playing my Marauder is how bad its QOL is, particularly due to some key utilities being either mandatory or just odd in design. Other classes tend to have a much better choice in utilities, and when comparing to Guardian/Juggernaut, their flow of combat is just more polished and fluid while Marauder feels more clunky and cobbled together. I'd like to suggest some Utility changes to be considered for 6.0's inevitable big balance changes (or sooner, if possible during the Summer of PvP!) to make some small Utility adjustments that would really improve the fluidity and fun factor of Marauder/Sentinel without breaking balance significantly.

 

I will be using Marauder utility names because I don't really play my Sentinel much, I use Guardian on Pubside.

 

Brooding

Reasoning: This utility is my biggest problem with Sent/Mara right now. It is absolutely not fun to sit there and channel for 8 seconds arbitrarily just to have your core rotation functional, and the 30s cooldown makes no sense. The entire class is designed around the Fury mechanic and having it up at the start of the fight is very important. You could say "just start with Frenzy" but then you lock yourself out of using your raidwide buff, Bloodthirst, which is also a significant DPS boost. This utility is mandatory for all 3 specs and should not be a utility, which is supposed to be an optional customisation system.

 

Suggestion: Remove the channeling mechanic from this Utility. Add a baseline passive skill to immediately generate 30 stacks of Fury when entering combat, and rework Brooding to instead have the effect: "Reduces the cooldown of Intimidating Roar. In addition, resets the cooldowns of Dual Saber Throw, Battering Assault and Frenzy upon leaving combat." This change, much like the mirror Guardian/Juggernaut utility, will make combat much more fluid and not have you stop between packs while doing dailies as often, and stop you from needing to channel and respec before every raid boss, and reduce downtime in PvP before you enter a skirmish. Please, Bioware, this is a big one we need and it is not a significant change in terms of balance.

 

Overwhelm

Reasoning: With the Ravage changes, this Utility makes little sense. You don't need to immobilise your opponent if you can just run along with them while casting. Instead, this Utility could be a good opportunity to address all the "bring back the old Ravage animation" complaints. We've seen with the Crippling Slash ranged throw utility that the tech is there to make Utilities create an alternate animation for a skill, so it's possible. The main pushback from Bioware would be around balancing "2 rotations" as a result of this Utility, so let's design it in a way that doesn't cause it to significantly INCREASE DPS but increase PvP cc capability like it's meant to.

 

Suggestion: Rework Overwhelm to change Ravage to its old 3s channeled animation. Increase Ravage's damage by 1.4x-1.5x (enough to justify a second GCD but not enough to make it an outright increase in DPS rotations - Bioware would have better data to decide the numbers here). The target is immobilised and hindered for the duration of this channel, and the caster is immune to interrupts, knockbacks and "mesmerise" (interruptable stuns like Intimidating Roar) effects for the duration of the channel. Consumes 1 stack of Ferocity every 1.5s if Ferocity is active. Swap Overwhelm with Interloper so it's now a Legendary tier Utility. This is clearly a PvP focused Utility (as is the original) and will bring back the style of the old animation if people want to use it in PvE despite that, but at the cost of a slight DPS loss. The immob+hinder+immunity effect is quite strong for PvP, and will definitely have a balance impact, particularly for Fury, which is already quite strong in the current meta and could warrant a slight nerf to its existing cc immunity passive, but it would mean Annihilation and Carnage become a little more viable. For classes being hit by this skill, there is still the counterplay of using a hard stun, popping DCDs or just out-DPSing the caster back. I think it wouldn't be too overpowered and plenty of people would prefer the mobility of the current Ravage but I'd love to hear more opinions on this one, as I imagine it could be quite controversial!

 

Blood Ward

Reasoning: 6 seconds of cc immunity at a 3 minute cooldown is an uptime of 3.33%. That is bad. I've never felt this Utility was useful and never seen anyone else use it. Marauder has always been the pure DPS melee class with the worst cc immunity availability, particularly for Annihilation/Carnage. Blood Ward is definitely not worthy of being a Legendary Utility in its current state.

 

Suggestion: Improve the uptime by making Blood Ward additionally reduce the cooldown of Saber Ward by 1 minute. This is a straight buff, and again, would be quite strong for Fury, but there is a reason Anni/Carnage are dead in PvP nowadays, and that reason is a lack of cc immunity. This change would also increase the cc uptime of Blood Ward to exactly match Deflection for Assassins, which is also 6s every 2 minutes, instead of 3 minutes. The heal and damage absorbed are stronger than Deflection but Marauder doesn't have the benefit of a true stealth and how powerful it is in SWTOR.

 

Relentless

Reasoning: In the same vein as the Brooding change, Fury is a mandatory class mechanic for Marauder and is crucial for reaching its core, baseline DPS. This Utility should be made a baseline passive and instead replaced with something that doesn't affect the outright usability of Predation in every combat situation. Marauders are also the worst class to defend a Warzone objective because of their complete lack of counterplay to stealth classes. Sweeping Slash is only usable out of combat if you spec Fury and use Frenzy (a 2min30s cd) to pop Berserk (a core DPS skill) to use Sweeping Slash 5-6 times at most before you're stuck with no options again. Marauders are not intended to be a defender class, of course, but sometimes you don't get the option when your PUGs in Unranked Warzones all go mid for DPS padding leaving you to get the side objectives. Relentless could be a good way to mitigate that issue.

 

Suggestion: Make Predation cost no Fury and be a 30s cooldown without any Utility and rework Relentless to instead grant a stack of a buff to the caster (let's just call it "Predator's Instinct" for now) every 1.5 seconds that increases Stealth Detection level by 2 per stack. The buff itself lasts 2 seconds unless refreshed by another stack, so you'd effectively get a Stealth Detection level bonus that scales up during Predation from 0 to 12 over its duration, with the final tick lingering over from the 9th second to the 11th second where it fully expires. This makes Predation usable in all scenarios without sacrificing the core DPS rotation and improves counterplay against the, frankly, poorly designed WoW mechanic that is perma-stealth.

 

What do you guys think? If you feel the suggestions are too strong, how would you tweak them to feel more balanced? Are there any other Utilities you'd like changed in 6.0 (or in the Summer of PvP, if a balance pass is happening then)?

Edited by LunarAshes
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Marauders are already the best performing melee class in PvP. If anything they should be nerfed, along with Mercs and Snipers.

 

Can you elaborate on that please? Does that mean you disagree with everything posted above, including the Brooding change which doesn't affect actual combat capability? Does your statement extend to Carnage/Annihilation?

 

If anything, FURY Marauders are performing well in PvP right now, and that lies with their CC immunity more than the burst itself. That indicates to me that the baseline needs buffs and Fury needs to be realigned with the other 2 specs.

 

Regardless, I still feel Juggs/Guards are stronger overall because they're more well rounded and have more options, and that's not counting skank tanks, which are a result of outright broken design.

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In 6.0 sure maras/sents could use some changes like brazen should just be a passive for all mara's, but since we don't have any context for 6.0 who can say. As it stands right now thought mara's are one of the top dps classes in the game they have some of the best def cd's of any dps and imo should be nerfed if anything ttk now is to high and i would like to see if back down to how it was in the 2.0-3.0 era.

 

Not sure why you think Brooding is such a mandatory utility i don't know anyone that takes it outside of duels to use at the start then respec. Overwhelm while i would like to have it brazen is a must have and inexorable is just an all round better pick, but making it hinder the target for 3's is way to strong even if it did little dmg. Plenty of people take blood ward not being able to be cc'ed for the first 6's of saber ward makes it a much better def cd unlike deflection on sins were if you use it while not white barred you get stunned and its like you don't have it active at all, you also get healing off it and the 25% yellow dmg reduction. As far as relentless goes giving pred just a base 30's cd without a utility would be ok for 6.0 depending on context and what changes other classes are getting but right now you are just giving mara's another free utility point to spend and you don't need stealth detection the only time perma stealth is a problem is arena and people going to acid which is being addressed.

Edited by A_J_B
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If any class needs utility help, its PTs/VGs. Not Mara.

 

While I definitely agree PTs need help this is in fact the Marauder forum. Plus ONE spec of the marauder does well. Not saying the others are bad but one of them does perform a lot better then the others. Also as I play on all classes most of the classes it can be hard to choice the utilizes as you're like oh I want this and this and this but you only get one. You have a choice. On the Marauder utilizes it just seems like there is no choice. You have to take this and this and this. A lot of our utilizes used to be our passives and its seems like we have no real choice in picking them.

 

 

Overwhelm

I disagree with your suggestion as I like having ravage the way it is. it keeps us more mobile. And if it broke anything it put the Veng Jugg rotation out of alignment which is another matter altogether. It does however still root players for the full 3s even when ravage has finished its instant. It still is a usefule tool for Immortal jugs but honestly for the marauder it is way under performing compare to the other utilities that you *need* to take. Such as Braizen and Inexorable (Is it called that for the marauder or jugg?)

 

 

Raid Buffs

I'm just going to group these together. Relentless, Unbound, Phantom, and Expunging Camo. I find these utilities as a must especially facing a sniper who has a 7.5s leg shot among other things. The Sorc raid but requires a tiny bit of force. The Ops consumes on 1 TA and not a big deal to the Op dps and nothing for an op healer. And the Mercs is less so as they have a passive for gaining stacks. At least for Arsenal they pretty much do the same thing but I can say for heals or IO. We on the other had as state require fury and berserk for our rotation no matter the spec so having berserk, predation, and bloodthirst all requiring a stack is a bit much. I think its time that either berserk gets taken off fury (Tho I am afraid what that will do to our rotations) or put bloodthirst on something else. Currently I almost never use blood thirst anymore because its such a waste.

 

 

As for Relentless, Unbound, Phantom, and Expunging camo I do think there needs to be a change. Requiring 4 Utilities Just to get decent mobility is ridiculous, especially compared to other classes. Now predation is a raid buff so I believe altering it too much might make it too OP. If anything were to happen I'd say during the first 6s of predation make the marauder *only* immune to roots on top of the actual root braking.

 

or

 

Make Phantom just a passive. Expunging camo can still be a utility but phantom should just be a passive as the marauder is all about speed and mobility. We are tanks we don't sit and take damage, we fly and deal it.

 

Blood Ward

Now I general don't take this as I find sacrificing taking only 1 legendary utility in favor of taking both the obfuscate utilities is better (and a necessity) BUT.... I disagree. As I said we aren't tanks and Sabe Wward is a very powerful DCD and as much as I would love it having it lower than 3mins would be OP. I would say they need to attach it to something else. If they were to attach it to say cloak of pain i'd say put a limiter such as can not occur more that once ever 1 min, or even 2 mins to align with other classes.

 

 

Brooding

I liked having this as a passive to carnage but as a utility it is worthless. I believe your suggestion is a bit strong however. Tho I love the idea of resetting DST and Force Charge when you exit combat. And if they do any suggestions I made about the raid buffs, I'd like to see this.

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Marauders are already the best performing melee class in PvP. If anything they should be nerfed, along with Mercs and Snipers.

 

Not they are not. Fury is. Annihilation and Carnage have taken multiple nerfs in 5.x. Carnage is the most nerfed spec in the entire game in 5.x. It is the only spec in the game that recieved direct DPS nerfs and one of them was due to the fact that the combat team didn't know that you didn't need to clip in order to land three attacks in the non-beserk ferocity window. Carnage lost two Ferocity window attacks which accounted for about 900 DPS lose.

 

Furthermore they entirely changed it's playstyle its literally not the same Carnage it was throughout the entire game up until 5.6. It doesn't play the same. It went from the fastest spec in the game to it actually being a DPS loss to run the high alacrity build which was it's hallmark since 4.0 on [although it didn't require quite as much alacrity as the high alacrity build does now.]. Additionally, as it no longer needs the alacrity it is also saddled by a beserk effect that does virually nothing for them. Every other rotation the alacrity is uneven anyways. It also has the hardest resource management for optimal performance of the 3 specs. It has no heals and it has no defense against CC [immunityor/partial].

 

Fury is the only Marauder spec that has CC immunity, it always was that way even when Ruthless Aggressor gave partial resistance. Fury gets 6 seconds of CC immunity every 26 seconds and requires no use of any non attack ability for it. Plus it has rage coming out of its A-O and has zero resource managenment. It can leap to Snipers and has an extra leap and has the best mobility and uptime among the 3 specs.

 

There is a reason why 90% of the Marauders you see running around in PVP and Operations. It is superior to Carnage and Anni in every single way.

 

Carnage has the worse DPS threshold of any melee DPS spec in the entire game.

 

Don't take my word for it -

 

http://parsely.io/parser/stats

 

Fury is strong, Carnage is garbage now. If you think that Marauder has anywhere near the kind of survivability that Mercs and Snipers do, you don't play Marauder. While admittedly Fury does have a better time of it, the fact is that Marauders are the only class in the entire game without self heals. I don't take anyone seriously who thinks that self heals don't weigh into the survivability equation in PVP.

 

Mercs and snipers have heals coming out of their ***, Marauders don't.

 

Even Fury with all it's advantages over the the other two specs is still effected by the lack of self heals.

 

The DCDs are great but they are also fleeting as all hell. Two of the main DCDs have three minute cooldowns, one of them having a 4 seconds uptime and doesn't even work correctly in all instances. [E-Net]. In your average lengthed WZ a Marauders DCDs will not cover them for 60-65% of the time and if there is no healer on their team, they're survivability leaves a lot to be desired, when facing competent enemies. Marauders cannot win battles of attrition and virtually ever opponent they face will have some amount of heals, many of which now are doing ridiculous amounts of healing for DPS specs. [Merc, Sniper, DPS sorcs, Juggs and Operatives].

 

You can root or slow mercs and snipers all day long, it's not going to stop them from attacking you, which is exactly what they do to melee. This is a Ranged Meta by any standard.

 

I have been playing Carnage for the last 6 years, this is the worst it has ever been hands down.

Say Fury, otherwise you're just lieing.

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what is it about marauder players that makes them so uniquely oblivious to how good their class is

 

at least sniper and merc players have the good graces not to make awful threads demanding buffs to their obviously well -performing specs

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Snip

 

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. The marauder in general was always meant to be a fast acting high dps performing glass cannon. It was never about if you were going to die, but when you did how many people did you take down with you. but all that changed a long time ago.

 

 

And the main reason they messed carnage up so bad was the fact that IT was the hybrid (quasi) spec and Fury was burst. During 5.x they decided to change it. They made fury the hybrid (quasi) and carnage the burst. The problem is rage jugg is still burst so now you have the fury class whose burst is higher then Carnage (which is now the actual burst spec) plus having good sustained damage. Plus its the only spec that better performs in the mobility section. I don't understand why range classes in this game have so many mobility and the ability to root the melee.

 

 

And I'm not even talking about how much perfect a sniper has about being the marauder's anticlass.

 

what is it about marauder players that makes them so uniquely oblivious to how good their class is

 

at least sniper and merc players have the good graces not to make awful threads demanding buffs to their obviously well -performing specs

 

Have you actually played or a mara or do sometimes maras just mess you up in pvp?

Edited by Ld-Siris
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Have you actually played or a mara or do sometimes maras just mess you up in pvp?

i was 2600 in solo ranked last season on mara

 

anyone who wants mara buffs for pvp almost certainly doesn't know what they're talking about

Edited by yellow_
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Raid Buffs

I'm just going to group these together. Relentless, Unbound, Phantom, and Expunging Camo. I find these utilities as a must especially facing a sniper who has a 7.5s leg shot among other things. The Sorc raid but requires a tiny bit of force. The Ops consumes on 1 TA and not a big deal to the Op dps and nothing for an op healer. And the Mercs is less so as they have a passive for gaining stacks. At least for Arsenal they pretty much do the same thing but I can say for heals or IO. We on the other had as state require fury and berserk for our rotation no matter the spec so having berserk, predation, and bloodthirst all requiring a stack is a bit much. I think its time that either berserk gets taken off fury (Tho I am afraid what that will do to our rotations) or put bloodthirst on something else. Currently I almost never use blood thirst anymore because its such a waste.

 

 

As for Relentless, Unbound, Phantom, and Expunging camo I do think there needs to be a change. Requiring 4 Utilities Just to get decent mobility is ridiculous, especially compared to other classes. Now predation is a raid buff so I believe altering it too much might make it too OP. If anything were to happen I'd say during the first 6s of predation make the marauder *only* immune to roots on top of the actual root braking.

 

or

 

Make Phantom just a passive. Expunging camo can still be a utility but phantom should just be a passive as the marauder is all about speed and mobility. We are tanks we don't sit and take damage, we fly and deal it.

 

I think it would be an idea just to take all Raid buffs and not make them cost anything. Sorcs already get to pop them for free and operatives pay little. Why should Maras and Merc sacrifice significant dps to put out raidbuff?

However I disagree with making phantom or predation root break passive. Sure maras have like four utilities for max mobility (phantom, relentless, unbound and expunging camo), but even if you take only two of those, you're still going to have very solid mobility compared to says juggs, mara's sister spec. Just taking relentless and unbound gives maras a 30 second cooldown root break + 80% movement speed increase, which is arguably one of the best mobility abilities available. Add to that charge and mad dash and possibly force camouflage as well, well that's kinda crazy imo.

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I think it would be an idea just to take all Raid buffs and not make them cost anything. Sorcs already get to pop them for free and operatives pay little. Why should Maras and Merc sacrifice significant dps to put out raidbuff?

However I disagree with making phantom or predation root break passive. Sure maras have like four utilities for max mobility (phantom, relentless, unbound and expunging camo), but even if you take only two of those, you're still going to have very solid mobility compared to says juggs, mara's sister spec. Just taking relentless and unbound gives maras a 30 second cooldown root break + 80% movement speed increase, which is arguably one of the best mobility abilities available. Add to that charge and mad dash and possibly force camouflage as well, well that's kinda crazy imo.

 

I do quite agree with you tbh however I'm just thinking of all the roots in the game that have a CD of between 10-15s. Like snipers have legshot that root you for 5 secs on a 15s CD (13s with alacrity) AND they root you on cover pulse for 5 seconds. For sorc you can be rooted on creeping terror every 10s or lightnings chain lightning. Oh and there is the electric bindings utility for sorcs and sins. And the nameless other roots.

 

 

With that said tho I believe the real problem is there are too many movement controlling effects in the game. My goal of that post was to give more of a choice of utilities than have a set of utilities that you have to take otherwise you are just screwed.

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what is it about marauder players that makes them so uniquely oblivious to how good their class is

 

at least sniper and merc players have the good graces not to make awful threads demanding buffs to their obviously well -performing specs

 

It's Fury, not Marauders. You see a lot of Carnage marauders running around in PVP or on NiM/HM Progression teams do you?

 

I'm not asking for buffs. But, Carnage's DPS should be a lot higher compared to a lot of other classes. It shouldn't have the lowest DPS cieling among Melee DPS specs or ranged for that matters. I've played Carnage for 6 years straight and I still play it, it's unmitigated Garbage compared to other classes. Marauder DPS should always be the highest among it's spec type. It's pure DPS class, it should have the highest DPS. It doesn't have any heals or cc immunity, it should not be outclassed by people running around with heals and off heals, and perma stealth and guards and taunts and cleanes and my personal favorite bring people back from the friggen dead while in combat. it's damage is pitiful compared to other classes. I'm talking straight spec wise.

 

You don't agree with that, that's your perogative. I don't share your view about Carnage or Anni for that matter because its just a ton of fluff like madness its not overperforming.

 

Not one spec has been nerfed as many times as Carnage has in 5.x. Not one. It is the only spec that received two consecutive DPS nerfs. It's saddled with a beserk ability that no longer provides any function to it, its wholey unnecessary since the play style change. Its a useless ability and even if it benefited from the higher alacrity build, which it doesn't, it would still be an uneven distribution of alacrity every other rotation. If you change the entire play style in addition to nerfing the crap out of it the least you can do is given them a berserk ability that actually does something useful for them. They simply have no need for that level of alacrity.

 

I don't know anyone in their right mind that thinks Carnage is good, the only reason I'm still playing that crap is because I don't jump ship whenever the wind blows in a different direction. Fury is strong as hell and Carnage is weak as hell comparatively and Fury is better in every single way. That nifty little dot they have on Ravage, that was originally Carnage's. Fury still has a 6 second cc immunity every 26 seconds, Carnage and Anni have to eat every last CC effect that goes their way and can't hope to keep up with them given its amount of breakers.

 

 

I played with some healer a few weeks ago who was awesome, never met him before but he was so good that I had to complement him on his performance, he was fantastic and when I told him I played Carnage this was his response - https://ibb.co/jfmw7y [click on image to zoom in] and this is fairly much the kinds of things I hear people say about Carnage.

 

I do well with Carnage because Ive been playing it so long, in and of itself, I'm my estimation especially compared to what it was and how it compares to other DPS specs, it is total garbage. It should be doing better comparatively.

 

 

They have excellent DCDs that can't hope to cover them over the long term. They just have too long of a CD compared to uptime in some cases. You will spend on average 65% of the time in your average length WZ without an active DCD. Anyone who thinks heals don't play a large part in overall survivability isn't someone who's opinion will matter to me.

Nothing can save this meta, I don't want them to change a thing its a lost cause. My hope lies solely in 6.0 and its reordering of the classes.

 

Comparing Anni and Carnage to Fury and not seeing a significant difference in performance between them is nothing short of Dumb.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, I don't share it.

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I couldn't agree more with everything you said. The marauder in general was always meant to be a fast acting high dps performing glass cannon. It was never about if you were going to die, but when you did how many people did you take down with you. but all that changed a long time ago.

 

 

And the main reason they messed carnage up so bad was the fact that IT was the hybrid (quasi) spec and Fury was burst. During 5.x they decided to change it. They made fury the hybrid (quasi) and carnage the burst. The problem is rage jugg is still burst so now you have the fury class whose burst is higher then Carnage (which is now the actual burst spec) plus having good sustained damage. Plus its the only spec that better performs in the mobility section. I don't understand why range classes in this game have so many mobility and the ability to root the melee.

 

 

And I'm not even talking about how much perfect a sniper has about being the marauder's anticlass.

 

 

 

Have you actually played or a mara or do sometimes maras just mess you up in pvp?

 

What you just said, I couldn't agree with more heh That's exactly what happened to Carnage and everyone seems to forget that from 1.x til 5.0 Carnage was always the 'quasi-burst spec' and Fury was the 'burst' spec. I'm glad you had the good sense to put that out there as I failed to recall to do.

 

Yeah and than ranged wants to say that "there is no difference in uptime between melee and ranged". Idiots.

I absolutely hate Snipers, I see them just like you do, the arch nemisis of our kind heh. The amount of control they can inflict on most melee is unbelievable and that cheese ball AOE slow of Engins that has no coold down can be replied at will and can effectively kept going 100% of the time is my favorite. Yeah because 50% is so much better than 70%, night and day right? heh Plus when there is more than one of them they just put side by side, no chance your getting out of that, even if you use something to break the effect it doesnt matter they just put a brand new one right back down on top of you all over again. And the roll and root, that's not broken? -They can attack you, you can't attack them.

 

People act like we always have all out cooldowns at the ready, that we shouldn't have used our breaker for some other CC we just got hit with and assume we always have that option which we don't.

 

Ya know the irony is that from 5.0 to 5.2 people were saying that Marauders were the most balanced class in the game, you can still find those posts if you look for em. As near as I can recall, all that has happened since than is nerf after nerf after nerf for Carnage and Anni. So if I'm getting worse, how did I get better?

 

Let's take a look at how great Carnage is now. - http://parsely.io/parser/stats / http://parsely.io/parser/leaderboard/marauder/carnage/2500000/all/live/0/

 

Everyone hates Marauders, we are always the boggie man.

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i was 2600 in solo ranked last season on mara

 

anyone who wants mara buffs for pvp almost certainly doesn't know what they're talking about

 

Ohh Arena's hard. Ya think maybe the healers had something to do with that?

 

You think you woulda been 2600 if you never had a healer?

 

Ranked is a Joke now and you know it. Rating means absolutely nothing because it is not based solely on you. Unless you were alone the whole time. You might wanna take a look around the boards some and get an idea how people view ranked now.

 

I don't doubt your an excellent player, but I do doubt that you are the only one. You are not a spec, you are a player. There isn't one spec in this game some people just suck at and others are great at. You mean nothing to the statistical overview nor do I.

 

There isn't always a healer around to help with the heals. That matters.

 

I hate to have to tell you this because I'm sure you love it, but no one is impressed by rating anymore.

Not only that, but raiders have a saying and I'm sure you probably despise raiding and you think you would breeze through DF/DP NIM.

 

"Parse or it didn't happen". You're rating is not solely based on you, its also based on who you had on your team. One person could very easily take that rating away from you by their performance.

 

Everyone knows what goes on in Ranked. All the cheating, win-trading, hacks and other backdoor BS. I don't expect anyone to say they got their rating by illicit means. Again, I'm sure you are an excellent player, but you are not telling me one thing about Carnage.

 

I'm sure you know who Hoppi is, he could destroy on on a Lightning Sorc. Should we assume that Lightning Sorcs are OP because of that?

 

We don't matter. The specs do.

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Ohh Arena's hard. Ya think maybe the healers had something to do with that?

 

You think you woulda been 2600 if you never had a healer?

He played the "you're bad or don't play mara" card. If you go with an ad hominem you can expect a response of the sort that I gave. He dropped it after that, maybe you should too?

 

if you actually played the game mode you're pretending to know so much about you'd know that luck has basically nothing to do with climbing to very high ratings, that many high rated players really did earn it, and that most solo ranked games don't actually have healers in them (and therefore your response here just sounds petty and absurd)

 

I genuinely don't know if carnage parses where it is supposed to but I definitely do know these buff mara threads are not just suggesting that carnage's dummy parse get fixed and that we can go home happy. They suggest ridiculous stuff like RA should never have been nerfed or, as is the case in this thread, that the current relentless utility should just be passive to the marauder class (seriously?), giving them another point to spend elsewhere. As if that wasn't bad enough, in a subsequent post they unironically claim the changes they are suggesting will not "affect actual combat capability."

 

aside from fixing parses, which I do not pay attention to, the only moves that should be on the table are leaving mara mostly the same or adding additional minor nerfs, perhaps to fury in particular

 

Marauders are already the best performing melee class in PvP. If anything they should be nerfed, along with Mercs and Snipers.
first reply best reply Edited by yellow_
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  • 2 weeks later...

Also when we at at fixing carnage can we fix anni/watchman as well. Can we get the old healing back would also like to out parse fury since its a sustained melee dps spec, you know the thing that it should be the best at. Fury should not be out parsing a sustained dps spec. The healing would now be balanced with all the heal to fulls in the game. 10% heal of off crit dots in no way would be op in the current game state. that is a 500 hps per crit dock tick so with zen it would be 2-3% total heal.... I don't thinks that's much to ask form.

 

 

Just to add on currently the theoretical max parse of each specs (this is based on quickest to 500,000 total damage watchman closes in on combat around 2,000,000 damage but 500,000 is a more realistic time frame)..... not like something isn't wrong

 

 

Watchman / Annihilation 9736.20

Combat / Carnage 10935.10

Concentration / Fury 11819.84

Edited by TmoneyTime
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Before the nerf, there were plenty of carnage maras in HM / NiM ops. There's not as many any more, though the 8m prog group I run with still has a combat sent. He's particularly good at it. There's definitely still a huge skill gap for that spec.

 

Not sure why Fury/Concentration was made to be so strong in pvp. Personally, I've always played Watchman, but a lot of the fun of that spec was the old Master Strike channeled ability. It was a really good filler (that you could clip). Without it, the spec feels off.... like something isn't right. Therefore, I agree with OP's suggestion to revert Ravage/ Master Strike to it's old 3s channel. Though I doubt it makes much sense for the other 2 specs.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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  • 2 weeks later...
Not sure why Fury/Concentration was made to be so strong in pvp. Personally, I've always played Watchman, but a lot of the fun of that spec was the old Master Strike channeled ability. It was a really good filler (that you could clip). Without it, the spec feels off.... like something isn't right. Therefore, I agree with OP's suggestion to revert Ravage/ Master Strike to it's old 3s channel. Though I doubt it makes much sense for the other 2 specs.

 

Agreed, Fury sucks. I absolutely hate playing that spec.

 

The Master Strike/Ravage change, as a Carnage main, I agree with. It'd help with the pacing of the spec now that we have Ferocity as a stacked ability instead of timed, and it sort of eliminates resource management problems (not that there were many in the first place) and really any downtime. Gives us a more interesting filler rather than "Massacre til the burst is back up". Plus, who doesn't want more damage?

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In pve:

 

Look that thing about people not playing carnage in Nims its wrong..theres lots of people that play it in Nims and they do just fine..they simple not OP anymore, but its still a good class.

 

And before people reply with parses...when 5.0 came out and after some gear grind..i would say a half mix of 236/240/ and few 242 carnage was perfectly fine for Nims, actually was still a top class due to bugs.I remember with that gear i used to parse something like 9.4/9.5k and still had dps enough for me and still could spare some for my team mates..and im not the greatest mara in the game AT ALL.

 

Also Fury is not that OP in Pve..a lot of places carnage is still on pair or better. The class does as good as old carnage did in parsing, but that parsing doesnt translate to real Bosses the same way carnage did.

 

Current carnage its more than ok for any pve stuff, so stop complaining that needs buffs like if the class is impossible to use in Nims..if only everything needs nerfs to damage/healing and "mitigation" for Pve.

 

Tbh i know that people who usually complain about some spec is bad in pve are one spec players that got some nerf to their spec and their epeen got a bit smaller, not really players that look at pve as a team game and actually care what other people that main/play other classes/spec perform in the game. Tbh this goes for pve and pvp.

 

In pvp:

 

From all melle spec its still one of the strongest specs in game...the STACK STUFF and the simplification of the class aka (proc to vicious lasting longer) was a pvp BUFF to carnage..

 

Carnage with Stacks its better than carnage without stacks.

 

Carnage still have great burst in pvp...and now that burst its also reliable.

 

If they had change carnage to a 4 system stacks (beserk) 3 system stacks (without beserk), so basically same burst as before and same sustain, the spec would be an old PT in steroides..and would most likely made carnage the strongest class in pvp by far.

 

So calm down because the spec its just fine..

 

PS: My favourite spec in game was old Carnage marauder,in pvp and pve.. and i am a Mara main, and in my opinion mara needs nerfs..more nerfs mostly to defensives/mobility..since damage its just fine as it is for pvp. Tho not only Maras needs nerf to dcds, almost every class should be nerf dcd wise for pvp and for pve as well, OH and dont let me start with the ******* 300 roots and slows im not going in there. Just for the sake of having fun and the game be actually engaging.

 

Also i read someone proposed a 10% heal to Annihilation Crits. I dont mean to offend you my friend..but thats the dumbest thing i have ever read in a marauder Thread..and thats hard to achiv since we have the Resident Grim posting here all the time. anyway, peace o/

Edited by FiLaBugh
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I agree about ravage utility. They should give / replace ( or merge) an utility that replaces old ravage with the new one and all buffs and set bonusses work well with channelling (old) one. Not only marauders but also juggs should benefit that.

 

Old ravage was the most iconic ability in the game.

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  • 3 months later...
I think to make the other advanced classes for Mara a more thinkable choice would be to add something new and exciting. What comes to mind would be an aoe damage effect when u die. Maras are supposed to be an all out dps class and I agree u can’t guard objectives in pvp due to a permanent stealth so it would help out let’s say if u were to guard an objective and u are faced with a 1vX situation at least u can try and take someone out when u die
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  • 2 months later...

Personally I'd like to see the Fury building element of Brooding whilst using Channel Hatred made baseline for all specs. The remaining cooldown reduction for Intimidating Roar could then be merged with Strangulate to create a new Heroic Tier Utility with the cooldown reductions for Force Choke and Intimidating Roar combined and a self heal based on the damage caused by Force Choke (Insert awesome animation for the channeled self heal).

 

In place of Strangulate in the Masterful Tier a cooldown reduction for Saber Ward and/or Undying Rage or some interesting kind of modifier to either defensive cooldown would be nice.

 

With or without these changes in 6.0 I'm very much enjoying playing my mara in all specs. They all seem pretty well balanced and functional to me for both PvE and PvP despite lagging behind the defensive cooldown power of Mercs and Juggs by a fairly big margin.

 

GG Bioware, I'm enjoying the game again

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