I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...

Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes

Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.

Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.

No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem

gets because its stupid to make them all identical

I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...

Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes

Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.

Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.

No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem

gets because its stupid to make them all identical

All those things you listed would make those professions have actual combat advantages. Biochem right now offers you credits just like the other tradeskills do, it just saves them for you instead of making them for you.

All the tradeskills basically do the same thing, increase the amount of credits you have to spend on things. Some need more items to sell to be more profitable, but that is an issue with those skills, not biochem.

I can not help but laugh at people here. Yes you can add reusables to other classes. They all dont need to ve heals we don't need crafting communism. Here lets give some examples since some people lack imagination...

Armstech= weapons mods, ammo ect that add various reuables for dps purposes

Synthweave armor get armor mods ect.

Cybertech some sort of damage dealing droid.

No they all dont get the swiss army knife that biochem

gets because its stupid to make them all identical

Cybertech already has reusable grenades.

All this QQ over Biochem is ridiculous...you could have easily checked what each profession does before leveling yours. I was going to level armormech but then I saw everything they craft is completely redundant, so went cybertech instead.

"It clearly is overpowering because having a free heal, free adrenals and free stims is just too powerful."

 

- im assuming you are referring to this in PVP, becaues lets face it.. no raid is going to complain about it in an operation are they....

Arent like 99% of whines and calls for nerfs PVP related?

JUst ban them from PVP zones, give everyone a reusable PVP stim/adrenal/medpack, and be done with it. If you rolled on an open PVP server, that's your problem, because you shouldnt get to jack with the game for everyone else.

I'm a BioChemist and I don't care what the market is right now, if you remove reusable "consumables" from BioChemists and do not dramatically increase the availability of raw materials to produce those consumables, the market will completely dry up. The reason for this is that BioChemists will keep everything they make for themselves.

I've tried to farm materials to produce my goods for sale via GTN. It's brutal. There is nothing fun or entertaining about it. In fact, it's not even profitable given the amount of credits I could make in the same amount of time doing something - anything - else.

Be careful what you wish for.

They've been nerfing biochem already. So you want to nerf it so much that it's no longer useful?? My alt that has biochem isn't that high, but I don't see the problem. That's the benefit of going biochem, you get the reusable medpacks/stims/adrenals. It doesn't seem that medpacks/adrenals/stims are in that much demand, but implants are useful for selling on the GTN.

 

If biochem didn't have reusables, what would be the point? You could just go with vendor consumables. Just saying..

Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max

All those things you listed would make those professions have actual combat advantages. Biochem right now offers you credits just like the other tradeskills do, it just saves them for you instead of making them for you.

 

All the tradeskills basically do the same thing, increase the amount of credits you have to spend on things. Some need more items to sell to be more profitable, but that is an issue with those skills, not biochem.

True... sort of. The problem is savings isn't easily balanceable vs. profits. If you're just trying to balance profits, then supply and demand will pretty much do it for you. If one skill is more profitable, more people will pick it up, supply will go up, and profits will go down until things are back in "balance".

Savings, however, needs to be hand balanced by the devs by tweaking the cost of what is being saved on to other players. (and, to point out, biochems *also* have profit sources too, which makes the whole thing quite difficult). Currently, things are tuned such that the savings dramatically outweigh any feasible profit. Very rough figure, but for every adrenal/medpack I use, I'd have to sell 2 items. (assuming both biochem and non-biochem are selling for 100% profit margin... stuff takes roughly same amount of mats to make, and thus costs are roughly comparable) I can use adrenals every 3 minutes, medpacks every 1.5 So basically, If I'm playing to my utmost as a biochem does, I'd have to sell at least 2 items every minute.

Not gonna happen.

So, basically, 1 of 5 things *is going* to happen:

1. "savings will be balanced". The yield on consumable adrenals/medpacks will be significantly increased (I'm talking yields of 99-198 instead of 1-2.) such that the cost of the finished items goes WAY down, so the reuseability isn't a source of significant savings for the biochem, thus allowing biochem to be balanced on the profits, not really on the savings. (Entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)

2. Reuseables will be removed.

3. Reuseables will be nerfed to the point where nobody is largely going to bother using them anyways, (so basically same as #2)

4. Reuseables will lose the biochem restriction. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)

5. Other crewskills will gain similar perks, breaking them too. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account.)

2&3, needing no rebalance of the entire game, are the more likely/intelligent options. Stims are already *sort of* on path 1&3 "end game". Not yet 1-49.

Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max

If you are min/maxing then you are gimping yourself by using the biochem reusables. They are NOT the best available. They are a convenience for biochemists. The best available is not BOP and does not require biochem to use. If you would read a few posts back, someone listed each reusable with the consumable counterpart. You can clearly see that the reusables offer no combat advantage. The sole purpose of this thread is economical. It has already been stated as such several pages back.

We all know it's impossible to make any credits from any other profession other than biochem (sarcasm). I'm still trying to figure out how I keep making credits with artifice and cybertech on my alts. Millions of credits from those two useless professions. I've also made a few million credits with biochem. And interestingly enough none of it was from stims, medpacks or adrenals.

If you are min/maxing then you are gimping yourself by using the biochem reusables. They are NOT the best available. They are a convenience for biochemists. The best available is not BOP and does not require biochem to use. If you would read a few posts back, someone listed each reusable with the consumable counterpart. You can clearly see that the reusables offer no combat advantage. The sole purpose of this thread is economical. It has already been stated as such several pages back.

 

We all know it's impossible to make any credits from any other profession other than biochem (sarcasm). I'm still trying to figure out how I keep making credits with artifice and cybertech on my alts. Millions of credits from those two useless professions.

MIN/MAX REUSEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAH:eek:

MIN/MAX REUSEABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BLAH:eek:

What are you talking about or are you just talking?

reusables r only for biochemists, so i dont c how it affects the monetary market or how it should be removed, its part of our crafting and if some of you think they should take it away from us biochems, then its only fair to take things away from other crafters, which im sure the ones who want biochems to lose reusables will say o no dont take our stuff only take away stuff from others we cant use to give us an advantage.

I'd be perfectly willing to give up *everything* that armormech, cybertech, artifice, armstech, and synthweavers make that biochem can't use in exchange for biochem giving up the things they make that armormechs, cybertechs, artifice, armstech synthweavers and non-crafters can't use.

Then nobody has an advantage.

Nothing else is no longer useful because biochem is the OP profession you must have to min/max

Except.. not.

So, basically, 1 of 5 things *is going* to happen:

1. "savings will be balanced". The yield on consumable adrenals/medpacks will be significantly increased (I'm talking yields of 99-198 instead of 1-2.) such that the cost of the finished items goes WAY down, so the reuseability isn't a source of significant savings for the biochem, thus allowing biochem to be balanced on the profits, not really on the savings. (Entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)

2. Reuseables will be removed.

3. Reuseables will be nerfed to the point where nobody is largely going to bother using them anyways, (so basically same as #2)

4. Reuseables will lose the biochem restriction. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account)

5. Other crewskills will gain similar perks, breaking them too. (again, entire game will need to be rebalanced to take the change in player power into account.)

Most likely Option 1. Except with an actually realistic increase (10-50%) in yield rather than the pointless hyperbole.

2 and 3 is a pointless nerf to a crew skill that is already balanced, 4 will by extension restructure the way the crew skill works in a bad way.

5 would probably be implemented in some way, though not in the way you're thinking, as the only equalizing that needs to happen between Biochem and the other craft skills is for the others to have better access to high tier schematics ( so raiding doesn't obsolete them ).... which would hardly be gamebreaking.

I'd be perfectly willing to give up *everything* that armormech, cybertech, artifice, armstech, and synthweavers make that biochem can't use in exchange for biochem giving up the things they make that armormechs, cybertechs, artifice, armstech synthweavers and non-crafters can't use.

This is a false argument though, because giving the non-consumable crew skills the ability to sell their BoPs is purely beneficial (or at best neutral, if the items end up being unprofitable ) from a trade perspective, whereas doing the same for Biochem fundamentally changes the crew skill and directly impacts the rest of its market ( and going back to the previous post, removing those entirely would only be partially harmful because of the imbalance in quality at top end ). In the former case, you're essentially saying you'd be more than happy to broaden your market base in exchange for me collapsing mine, in the former you're offering to shave your head if I chop off my leg.. it's hardly an equitable trade.

Most likely Option 1. Except with an actually realistic increase (10-50%) in yield rather than the pointless hyperbole.

If you mean 10-50, I'd agree. (though leaning towards the 50 side). 10-50% increase in yield wouldn't do diddly. Even 50% would basically just mean every other craft gives me 2 instead of 1. They already did more than that with the lvl 50 stuff. (Which, IMO, doesn't go far enough when it comes to adrenals and medpacks)

(oh, and to note: I wasn't neccessarily saying yields between 99 and 198 in general, I was saying yield would go from a single item on a normal and 2 on a crit, to a stack on a normal, and 2 stacks on a crit, keeping the existing double when you crit.)

Almost forgot:

2 and 3 is a pointless nerf to a crew skill that is already balanced, 4 will by extension restructure the way the crew skill works in a bad way.

Except it isn't balanced. If it was then it wouldn't be inevitable they'd have to pick one of these options.

This is a false argument though, because giving the non-consumable crew skills the ability to sell their BoPs is purely beneficial (or at best neutral, if the items end up being unprofitable ) from a trade perspective, whereas doing the same for Biochem fundamentally changes the crew skill and directly impacts the rest of its market ( and going back to the previous post, removing those entirely would only be partially harmful because of the imbalance in quality at top end ). In the former case, you're essentially saying you'd be more than happy to broaden your market base in exchange for me collapsing mine, in the former you're offering to shave your head if I chop off my leg.. it's hardly an equitable trade.

Except there isn't a market for adrenals/medpacks. I have yet to ever sell a single one at cost, much less for a profit. Allowing me to sell the reuseable ones WILL be increasing my biochems market, (or at best neutral, if they end up being unprofitable too.) The only thing I make profit on as biochem is high end stims and implants.

The funny thing is. I completely agree with that point. But they've already accomplished that for Biochem.

 

 

 

That's not terrible game design. Terrible game design is forcing players who want nothing to do with a certain aspect of gameplay to spend time messing with it.

 

Think of the huge conniption your average raider would have if 1.2 made it so you had to PvP in order to get top tier raiding gear (or vice versa).

PVP whine is PVP whine. Request reusable PVP zone only stim/medpack/adrenal usable by everyone, and be done with it already.

PVP whine is PVP whine. Request reusable PVP zone only stim/medpack/adrenal usable by everyone, and be done with it already.

I WANT PVE STUFF WITHOUT HAVING TO PVE!!!!!

I want valor and battlemaster gear to drop from hardmodes.

Trade? Of course you would. Your end of the bargain has no value other than time.

IE - Show up over and over, win lose or draw, you get stuff. Sorry, I don't think you should be rewarded just for 'existing' somewhere as it is.

Little less be rewarded with stuff I actually have to assemble a remotely talented group of remotely well geared people to break in the first few times.

Sorry, PVP welfare epics should stop at the expertise gear you get now which is already way too good for 'im here, reward me. Showing up = skill. I have skill. I get reward."

The entitlement generation at its finest. ToR knows how to get your cash too.

But yeah, i have biochem on all of my characters but my main who foolishly plunged into armormech too hard to turn back.

And I think it needs changed, or the other skills need brought up.

One of the two. Biochem is too much of a 'quality of life' benefit to take some silly weapon or armor producing skill that has no end game usage.

Question:

Would it be such a problem at is is for Non-Biochems if Blue Buffpacks, Adrenals and Medpacks would be availabe in the AH for a reasonable price like <1k?

Everbody could afford Stacks of these Things who are only slightly less effective then the Rakata recipes.

Thats how it is in every other MMOPRG.

As a Biochemist I must pay 16 to 20k for the mats to craft ONE Med- or Buffpack. That is the problem, no Non-Biochem can afford to buy these things at these prices.

Bionanalysis is the only Gathering Skill where I have sometimes 4 (FOUR!!) Missions in Tier 5 (yeah, these things don't all use Tier 6 Mats) that give white Materials that I can buy from the crafting Vendor. You can't farm these Mats cheap and in a timely fashion, so you can't sell these things for a reasonable price.

That is the whole problem, every Non-Biochem would have nearly the same advantages as Bio-Chems, if Biochems could easily and cheap produce these things and then sell ist for a reasonable price as in other MMORPGs.

The problem is, that 1 consumable Medpack is equaly or more expensive to craft than an item, that you can use für weeks. Fix this and everybody can buy stacks of these things in the AH.

One thing i notice is everyone complains about credits, I have a couple things to say to them, LOWER PRICES on everything else aka cyber tech mods,armoring for alts, random gear found or created for alts, Or do your damn ship missions on your 50 you make 100k for an hour to hour and 30 minutes of work

P.S having a slight advantage on stats end game pve Is normal for craft like biochem the whole point is for buffs, alchemy in World of Warcraft had bop buffs that were slightly worst then what could be sold but still effective on not wasting alot of time to get the better versions for them selves and others. So stop ************ and getting it nerfed and start asking for other crafts to be more useful.

On this note I'm done If you still try to argue over what i added then your just trolling.

One thing i notice is everyone complains about credits, I have a couple things to say to them, LOWER PRICES on everything else aka cyber tech mods,armoring for alts, random gear found or created for alts, Or do your damn ship missions on your 50 you make 100k for an hour to hour and 30 minutes of work

 

P.S having a slight advantage on stats end game pve Is normal for craft like biochem the whole point is for buffs, alchemy in World of Warcraft had bop buffs that were slightly worst then what could be sold but still effective on not wasting alot of time to get the better versions for them selves and others. So stop ************ and getting it nerfed and start asking for other crafts to be more useful.

 

On this note I'm done If you still try to argue over what i added then your just trolling.

dude look at when this thread was made.

Reusable stim/med = permanent benefit right?

How about you craft a chest piece, mod, barrel, blaster and equip it; it will persist through death and 2 hours later it vanishes...

Sounds like your logic on nerfing biochem is somewhat flawed.

Biochem needs to be left alone. It is fine as is.

All other crafters are gettin their professions buffed to the point everyone will be utilizing them to get the best gear. As is biochem will be on par except for the fact that you have to. E biochem to use the adrens/medpacs.

All of you hating on biochem just wait till 1.2.

As for BW you have needed biochem enough. Leave it alone.