So I'm going to put this in general. If a mod moves it to class, so be it.

I've been noticing a sad trend to the tanking class in this game. Now I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode.

Either the tank of your group is either a newb... or a noob (there's a difference, Google it).

Either the tank is too new and doesn't know how to gear or draw aggro well enough, or they're a type A, azzhat that believes they're the god of gaming and you will do exactly as they want or get ready for a barrage of nasty. The "newb" tank is fine for the Hammer Station FP, but an SOR FPs or LI and they are not up to the task. I only heal or dps and never tank and here's why....

A good tank must run around like a chicken with their head gone "touching" all npc mobs to gain all aggro. Remember your healer will take damage from any mob that is not "touched" by the tank or dps. A new tank doesn't understand this and thinks the bubble will be enough to protect the healer (don't bubble the healer. You're just making their job harder. Yes harder because now the highest dps will be stealing aggro from you thus forcing the healer to heal that dps more).

A good tank that's not an azzhat noob, is rare; like dinosaur rare. If you get one in a group, you need to friend them, send them 1 million credits weekly as a fee, and buy them decos.

Seriously, doesn't it feel like the tank class is dying in this game? And comps... I'm not even going to go there. Comp tanks are horrible. If you lose your tank in a flashpoint and need to comp... just put them on heals and go with 2 healers. It actually works better.

Something needs to change. Maybe the group aggro skill needs to be increased in area and potency, duration etc.

It's true that I don't often see a solid, experienced tank. Sadly, I almost never see a skilled healer.

If good tanks are rare, good healers are positively mythological, at least on Group Finder.

Interesting about the noob/newb thing.

I mean all of that is true, but it's been true in every mmo I've ever played.

I didn't know about the diff in newb vs noob. lol People have been calling me the wrong one for so long!

Either the tank is too new and doesn't know how to gear or draw aggro well enough, or they're a type A, azzhat that believes they're the god of gaming and you will do exactly as they want or get ready for a barrage of nasty. The "newb" tank is fine for the Hammer Station FP, but an SOR FPs or LI and they are not up to the task. I only heal or dps and never tank and here's why....

Well there you go. Coming from someone who mains a tank. (I have 6, 3 imp mirrors.)

You need to get in & tank those FP's. Gear you a tank, LEARN how to tank properly, augment, rotation/utilities needed for different fights. Then come back & tell everyone what they need to do to tank "correctly". lol

A good tank must run around like a chicken with their head gone "touching" all npc mobs to gain all aggro. Remember your healer will take damage from any mob that is not "touched" by the tank or dps. A new tank doesn't understand this and thinks the bubble will be enough to protect the healer (don't bubble the healer. You're just making their job harder. Yes harder because now the highest dps will be stealing aggro from you thus forcing the healer to heal that dps more).

I never touch every mob in a FP or Ops, irregardless of SM or MM.

For Ops, you have an off tank to help you grab aggro. If one of the tanks are a new player, then that person should be told what to do/how to do it. Very simple.

If it's a FP, I will group taunt, but I don't spam through every mob making sure I hit them before choosing one to take down.

I also do protect the healer, in fact if you don't protect the healer, some will ask for a guard. (It's there to protect them also.) If a DPS is repeatedly stealing aggro from me, then they will get the guard, but that's rare.

In general regards to tanking it's fine to guard a healer first until a first few pulls to see what happens.

Seriously, doesn't it feel like the tank class is dying in this game?

No, it's never been the favored class of either MMO I've played. Tanks & healers are always rare, tank more so. It will stay that way because the class can be more stressing to manage than just DPS.

It also doesn't help new tanks with players with attitudes like you, who think they know it all & bash the new tank, instead of helping them.

Something needs to change.

Yes, players like you who think they're the "god of the game" who's "time is more important than a wipe or two".

Get off your high horse mate & help a new player out instead of bashing them.

Good tanks are too valuable to their own guild. New tanks PuG to learn their class.

^True, in most senses. But good tanks still pug when the guild is busy/doesn't need a tank or not on at the time they're playing.

This has been happening for a while with all the classes, not just tanks. People do not know how to gear, or play their class. And God forbid if you say anything, their response is always, "I will be fine."

For instance, I ran with a sorc dps the other day in a pug SnV HM. He had 2200 alac/ 600 crit and 650 accuracy. I asked him about his gear, and he said his gear was that way to combat the lag on the server and that he would be fine? Huh? Needless to say he wasn't fine. Absolutely no clue. Amazing.

Is an inability to figure out how to play to be unexpected when you lump conquest/cxp grinders in on all fp's as a random que with new players?

I find it is hardest to find a good DPS. Good tanking is mostly in how you move as a group. If the tank is asking you to do something, well, they probably have a reason.

And if you can understand their reason, and bring a mathematically sound counter reason, they will listen.

Otherwise they'll just see your name and not join your group, and you end up with what you see.

Although most good tanks aren't playing, or solo pugging anymore post 4.x/5.x.

I find the best cure to not being happy about how a particular role is played, is to play it yourself.

Well there you go. Coming from someone who mains a tank. (I have 6, 3 imp mirrors.)

You need to get in & tank those FP's. Gear you a tank, LEARN how to tank properly, augment, rotation/utilities needed for different fights. Then come back & tell everyone what they need to do to tank "correctly". lol

 

Ok. Touched a nerve obviously. Let's get started shall we. Civilized discussion is lost on you; personal attacks are your norm. I'll try and break down some reading comprehension for you.

 

Where did I say I've never tanked (past tense) and don't know how to gear them properly? I said I never tank (present tense). The thread isn't so much about "tanking correctly" as it is that tanks are in short supply. Regardless, I did go into how to tank and your method is not it. Let's move on here....

 

I never touch every mob in a FP or Ops, irregardless of SM or MM.

For Ops, you have an off tank to help you grab aggro. If one of the tanks are a new player, then that person should be told what to do/how to do it. Very simple.

If it's a FP, I will group taunt, but I don't spam through every mob making sure I hit them before choosing one to take down.

I also do protect the healer, in fact if you don't protect the healer, some will ask for a guard. (It's there to protect them also.) If a DPS is repeatedly stealing aggro from me, then they will get the guard, but that's rare.

In general regards to tanking it's fine to guard a healer first until a first few pulls to see what happens.

 

This is not good tanking. Relying on group taunt is not doing your job. It's not accurate and doesn't, quite often, aggro all mobs. And, "choosing to take one down," is not your job foremost. That's dps. You're there to soak damage. And don't guard the healer. If you're doing your job, the healer won't take damage or very little. Guard the dps with the highest output that might steal your aggro. If you look, the guard part of the skill is so minimal, the healer won't even feel it.

 

No, it's never been the favored class of either MMO I've played. Tanks & healers are always rare, tank more so. It will stay that way because the class can be more stressing to manage than just DPS.

 

Agreed.

 

It also doesn't help new tanks with players with attitudes like you, who think they know it all & bash the new tank, instead of helping them.

 

Where did I bash the new tank? What exactly is "my attitude?" Please show those words in my post. I'm all for helping new tanks. A little tough to start helping them on BH MM.

 

Yes, players like you who think they're the "god of the game" who's "time is more important than a wipe or two".

Get off your high horse mate & help a new player out instead of bashing them.

 

Again, where did I portray myself as "god of the game" who's time is more important than a wipe or 2? Please direct me to those words too. Where's the bashing of new players? Please point that out too.... again.

 

.

If you drop the personal vendetta and carefully read someone's post you can contribute to the discussion better. Thin skin doesn't help you here.

Is an inability to figure out how to play to be unexpected when you lump conquest/cxp grinders in on all fp's as a random que with new players?.

Huh? Perhaps you should rephrase that. No clue what you are trying to ask, but I am guessing it was rhetorical.

When you enter the Que, you are expected to know how to play your class, gear your toon, know the fights and know how to work as a team in a group environment. Not sure why you feel that the above should not be expected.There is no participation award for just showing up.

To give anyone a pass because they are New, would be a major fail. They have the internet, look up what to do before you enter anything. Not hard.

I've been noticing a sad trend to the tanking class in this game. Now I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode.

Did you just put Hard Mode FPs on comparison with Nightmare Operations?

Really?

You do realise that MM for FPs doesn't mean the same thing as for Operations I hope?

And to be clear, anyone with a decent or better healer or tank tends to stay away from the general populace...especially because there are even more bad DPS out there that have no idea how to do puzzle, when to interrupt, how to step out of damage circles and when to use AOE and when not.

I main healers and I will not go through GF with a pug except for the daily ops and not even all of those.

The main reason you don't see many good healers and tanks is because they know to stay away from pugs. This is a direct side effect of the game becoming easier and easier. People don't learn their roles because they've been getting away with it and when they get to the tougher content they are oblivious to what they need to do, how to gear and what to watch for.

But again I don't get why you put Hard Mode FPs on comparison with Nightmare Ops. Totally different league of content.

Did you just put Hard Mode FPs on comparison with Nightmare Operations?

 

Really?

 

You do realise that MM for FPs doesn't mean the same thing as for Operations I hope?

 

But again I don't get why you put Hard Mode FPs on comparison with Nightmare Ops. Totally different league of content.

Hello? Critical reading is helpful here. "I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode."

There's no comparision here. I didn't say MM FP are the same difficulty as MM OPs. Actually, MM FP are harder than SM Ops... but that's also not what I was saying originally. I'm simply stating that when talking about tanks and tanking, I'm not discussing vet mode or story mode. If you don't know why that would be... I can't help you then.

It's a discussion. Do you perhaps like ops over flashpoints and felt a personal attack and therefore needed to create an issue where no issue existed?

Just because.

Guarding: Guard whomever is pulling threat. It shouldn’t be happening actually but if someone is try guarding them but if they are dps’ing random mobs well you wont be helping much anyway. I MM and NiM there should be a kill order, if some dps is ignoring it guarding them will only delay not stop the issue.

Hitting every mob....maybe it really depends on the pull and all. Mostly of the time, yes you will need to but something you let the DPS drop big AoEs then AoE taunt to get a huge threat lead. It really is pull dependent.

Gearing isn’t hard there are plenty of good guilds, pick one and go.

Most important part of doing hard content, any anything, is staying aware of the strategy and your surroundings. Take it easy and relax into the pull, don’t rush but move with purpose. Oh and look good doing it, that is key.

Just because.

 

 

Guarding: Guard whomever is pulling threat. It shouldn’t be happening actually but if someone is try guarding them but if they are dps’ing random mobs well you wont be helping much anyway. I MM and NiM there should be a kill order, if some dps is ignoring it guarding them will only delay not stop the issue.

 

Hitting every mob....maybe it really depends on the pull and all. Mostly of the time, yes you will need to but something you let the DPS drop big AoEs then AoE taunt to get a huge threat lead. It really is pull dependent.

 

Gearing isn’t hard there are plenty of good guilds, pick one and go.

 

Most important part of doing hard content, any anything, is staying aware of the strategy and your surroundings. Take it easy and relax into the pull, don’t rush but move with purpose. Oh and look good doing it, that is key.

Much better contribution, and good points. Thanks.

And looking good... absolutely!

Hello? Critical reading is helpful here. "I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode."

 

There's no comparision here. I didn't say MM FP are the same difficulty as MM OPs. Actually, MM FP are harder than SM Ops... but that's also not what I was saying originally. I'm simply stating that when talking about tanks and tanking, I'm not discussing vet mode or story mode. If you don't know why that would be... I can't help you then.

Ok I will try to make it simple for you.

Could you please explain why in this universe you would take the examples of HM FPs and NiM Ops? I see no logical reason or context that would explain why these two examples are put together and you have offered none.

A lot of HM Operations are harder than HM FPs so you are making zero sense here.

Ok I will try to make it simple for you.

 

Could you please explain why in this universe you would take the examples of HM FPs and NiM Ops? I see no logical reason or context that would explain why these two examples are put together and you have offered none.

 

A lot of HM Operations are harder than HM FPs so you are making zero sense here.

OMG.. are you serious? What are you talking about? I'm not lumping HM FPs and Ops together. AT ALL!. zero, zilcho. What are you not seeing here? I'm separating MM FPs/OPS from vet and story FPs....

Work with me here...

OMG.. are you serious? What are you talking about? I'm not lumping HM FPs and Ops together. AT ALL!. zero, zilcho. What are you not seeing here? I'm separating MM FPs/OPS from vet and story FPs....

 

Work with me here...

This is what I am talking about:

Now I'm talking MM FP or MM/NiM Ops, not vet mode or story mode.

So is this thread referring to HM FPs as well as NiM Operations or not? I clearly see you referring to BOTH.

Either you didn't mean what you said or you didn't say what you meant.

People don't know the difference between newb and noob? I thought that was common knowledge. Then again, I'm finding more and more people that say "kek" without even knowing what the reference is.

People also say yolo, ok and stick up their middle finger without knowing what the reference is. Not sure what your point is.

This is what I am talking about:

 

So is this thread referring to HM FPs as well as NiM Operations or not? I clearly see you referring to BOTH.

 

Either you didn't mean what you said or you didn't say what you meant.

I completely meant what I said. OK I will try one more time. Let's change this a little and see if something else works with you.

Would if I said... "I'm going to talk about red and blue colors only, NOT black and white since they're not colors."

Do you see the difference between the first two subjects and the last two subjects? Do you see the word "NOT" in the middle. In other words, what you're arguing with me about would be like saying... Red is not blue in the above statement which is not what the statement is referring to.

Look, step back. Show the thread to a friend. Give it time. You'll get it.

Can anyone else help me explain this?

People don't know the difference between newb and noob? I thought that was common knowledge. Then again, I'm finding more and more people that say "kek" without even knowing what the reference is.

For the longest time I had no clue. About 6 months ago, I looked it up on Google myself.

You see this mixed up in game blogs. Not a big deal, surely but I find the intricacies of video game lingo interesting.

I completely meant what I said. OK I will try one more time. Let's change this a little and see if something else works with you.

 

Would if I said... "I'm going to talk about red and blue colors only, NOT black and white since they're not colors."

 

Do you see the difference between the first two subjects and the last two subjects? Do you see the word "NOT" in the middle. In other words, what you're arguing with me about would be like saying... Red is not blue in the above statement which is not what the statement is referring to.

 

Look, step back. Show the thread to a friend. Give it time. You'll get it.

 

Can anyone else help me explain this?

God you can't be serious.

Why would you class HM FPs and NiM Ops as colours and HM Operations for example not? What are the criteria for that? I bet you can't even explain it. That's why you're dancing around it.

Your example makes no sense unless you can explain why HM FPs and NiM ops are classed as colours by you. To me HM FPs and NiM Ops are like comparing blue and black and not red and blue. They are not both in the same colour spectrum.

The problem, in a lot of these instances is it's hard to know who the noob is. It's also kind of hard to know whether someone is a newb or a noob, and I've never felt like I cared enough to make the distinction.

Are we wiping because DPS is not focusing on the right mob, not using their aggro dumps, and not taking any responsibility for self healing?

Is the tank too squishy? Not picking up enough Adds? Standing in stupid?

Is the healer panicking and running around and not healing? Healing DPS when the tank needs the attention?

...of course, the only way to figure these things out, and get through an encounter that's wiping the group is to communicate. The fault of pugs, almost always, is no communication.

God you can't be serious.

 

Why would you class HM FPs and NiM Ops as colours and HM Operations for example not? What are the criteria for that? I bet you can't even explain it. That's why you're dancing around it.

 

Your example makes no sense unless you can explain why HM FPs and NiM ops are classed as colours by you. To me HM FPs and NiM Ops are like comparing blue and black and not red and blue. They are not both in the same colour spectrum.

...I think you guys should just drop this. You're arguing about semantics, and doing it badly.

I don't really care about whether someone is a newbie, a veteran, or a 248 legendary player.

There are only two types of players to me, those who can communicate and those who can't. This goes both ways, a veteran who blames newbies without trying to help is just as bad as a newbie who can't take advice.