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Alacrity needs to increase Heat/Ammo/Energy regeneration as well.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Alacrity needs to increase Heat/Ammo/Energy regeneration as well.

Mazikeen's Avatar


Mazikeen
02.01.2012 , 08:47 AM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Daecollo View Post
Its worthless for IA/Smug/BH/Commando because we have to manage our resources, casting faster actually hurts us.

Thus Increased Regeneration would make alot of sense.
This

I'm actually putting my level 50 gear together to specifically avoid alacrity and presence (another stat useless unless you solo) on my DPS Op. I agree that haste is nice but it's on too much gear given the limited classes that actually benefit from it
"Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

pipda's Avatar


pipda
02.01.2012 , 11:04 AM | #52
Yea Alacrity will help us get to that point where we are out of resources sooner than later. Healing faster in some cases is needed, like PVP or in PVE where you need a big heal and to dodge the red target under your feet.

I would love to cast faster, sure it gives me the opportunity to run myself out of energy faster, but I wouldn't just chain cast my self down unless I had too. It leaves me more time for other activities, Diag scan, clicking through people and doing KP triage, running in circles or /getdown @ the tank mid boss fight.

The problem is the heals are so weak, If our heals hit hard enough non crit to matter then we could worry about speed. However our heals are so week we can't worry about speed we must worry about that heal that hits, no matter how fast it was cast, does enough healing to out damage the boss or whatever. I rely on crit heals to keep people up, and stack my crit as high as I can go. Like someone else said, I pull my 56 Alacrity enhancements and replace with 51 crit/surge.

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
02.01.2012 , 01:38 PM | #53
I think a big issue here is that everyone assumes this game plays like WoW, and it does not.

In WoW, crit and power were gains to both HPS and HPM (Healing per second and per mana, respectively).

In WoW, haste was only a HPS increase, with no effect on HPM. It increased throughput without changing efficiency. You could go OOM (Out of Mana) faster than someone who had the same HPS from power/crit because they also gained HPM increases, but you had the advantage of landing a spell in a hurry if needed, while theirs might land just a bit too slow. Haste also increased the cast speed of instants by decreasing the GCD, and had other effects on HoTs (which we will ignore for now). We can ignore the effects on regen mechanics they added later as those did not effect healers. The balance was to offset haste with increased regen or with a larger mana pool. Very few heals had cooldowns, and those tended to be panic buttons or powerful AoE.

In SWTOR, alacrity does not decrease the GCD on instants, which make up a large portion of the rotation of Troopers/Smugglers/Agents/Bounty Hunters. There is no way to increase regen or to increase the resource pool. Most key heals are tied to a cooldown (for instance, Med Probe is tied to the cooldown on Adv. Med. Probe if you don't want to run out of ammo).

Because of these differences, alacrity can, and often does, results in an actual HPS decrease in SWTOR. Your total healing throughput goes down because your effective cost of abilities increases. Unlike WoW, alacrity is not HPM neutral, it is HPM negative, and since our rotations require us to manage our resource pool by interweaving lower HPS abilities to regen, decreasing the HPM of our abilities forces the use of low HPS instant abilities (like Hammer/Rapid Shot) that get zero benefit from alacrity.

I recently reworked my Combat Medic Calculator to model usage of SCC and RC, instead of assuming a steady-sustained rotation which slightly under-valued alacrity. Even assuming increased use of our only 2 abilities that have cast times, it is still very easy to find values of alacrity that decrease the HPS.

ZaiusKhan's Avatar


ZaiusKhan
02.04.2012 , 08:29 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Daecollo View Post
Otherwise its worthless.
It shouldn't increase Heat/Ammo, etc...

If you cast faster and you heat get too high as example, you can use 'rapid fire' which doesn't use heat.

3 Tracer Missiles will cost you 48 heats (maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know), if you save 1 seconds with you alacrity, you can cast 1 'rapid fire' so for the same heat cost and time, you will have 3 missiles plus 1 rapid fire instead of just 3 missiles...

learn to play

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
02.04.2012 , 08:42 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by ZaiusKhan View Post
It shouldn't increase Heat/Ammo, etc...

If you cast faster and you heat get too high as example, you can use 'rapid fire' which doesn't use heat.

3 Tracer Missiles will cost you 48 heats (maybe I'm wrong, I really don't know), if you save 1 seconds with you alacrity, you can cast 1 'rapid fire' so for the same heat cost and time, you will have 3 missiles plus 1 rapid fire instead of just 3 missiles...

learn to play
While not directed at me, you are still wrong so I'll jump to his defense and counter that "learn to play" with a "learn to read" backed up by a "learn to math."

And a little "learn to play" for good measure, since Rapid Shots is instant and will always take 1.5 seconds, cannot be reduced to 1, because GCD of instants are not effected by alacrity.

After you learn to read, you might see in the thread where the math and modeling work has already been done (hint: a lot of it was in those long posts by me).

To keep it short and as math-free as possible for you, if you cast faster, you regen less while doing the casting, therefore your abilities are actually more expensive, therefore you end up replacing hard hitting abilities with weak ones like rapid shot, and, in the end, your HPS or DPS can actually drop by holding all stats steady and adding alacrity.

Next time, try and be informed before being rude.

ZaiusKhan's Avatar


ZaiusKhan
02.04.2012 , 08:45 AM | #56
So let's say you gain 1,5 seconds every 4 missiles... The exact numbers are not important bro, the math are still right...

u mad?

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
02.04.2012 , 09:48 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by ZaiusKhan View Post
So let's say you gain 1,5 seconds every 4 missiles... The exact numbers are not important bro, the math are still right...

u mad?
The math is still wrong, and the numbers are, actually, pretty important. That's what makes math work...

I'll talk in Commando terms, since they are parallel. At full ammo, you regen 0.6 Ammo per second.

Casting Adv Probe, Medical Probe, Hammer Shot costs, 2 Ammo, 1 Ammo, 0 Ammo, and takes 1.5 seconds, 2 seconds, 1.5 seconds (instant) for a total of 3 Ammo over 5 seconds. 5*0.6=3, so this is Ammo neutral.

Now speed it up. AP takes 1.2 seconds, MP takes 1.6, HS still takes 1.5 (because it is instant). It still costs 3 Ammo, but now you only regen 2.58 Ammo. It is no longer Ammo neutral, you lose ammo on this rotation.

All of this has been detailed earlier in the thread, and if you model out an actual continuous and realistic rotation, you see that the increases Ammo cost starts leading to decreased regen during bursts, and you are forced to replace hard hitting abilities like Medical Probe with Hammer Shot. Again, a more detailed version of this exact math is earlier in this very thread.

Your math is overly simplistic, ignores the mechanics, and, in the end, is wrong. Go read the rest of the thread if you want to enlighten yourself.

Or, as you might say, learn to play.

ZaiusKhan's Avatar


ZaiusKhan
02.04.2012 , 10:08 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by RuQu View Post
Now speed it up. AP takes 1.2 seconds, MP takes 1.6, HS still takes 1.5 (because it is instant). It still costs 3 Ammo, but now you only regen 2.58 Ammo. It is no longer Ammo neutral, you lose ammo on this rotation.

After this rotation, you saved 0,7 seconds, 1,4 if you do it twice, so you can nearly fit in a Hammer Shot.

Also, you mention a 'continuous and realistic rotation' of standing still and casting a whole fight?! Considering you will probably have to move, you will be happy to fit in your instant...

My 'learn to play' was about the 'alacrity is worthless' in the first post, which is not. It let you BURST faster and if you adapt your rotation, you will not lose dps or hps in long term.

RuQu's Avatar


RuQu
02.04.2012 , 10:15 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by ZaiusKhan View Post
After this rotation, you saved 0,7 seconds (1,4 if you do it twice) so you can nearly fit in a Hammer Shot.

Also, you mention a 'continuous and realistic rotation' of standing still and casting a whole fight?! Considering you will probably have to move, you will be happy to fit in your instant...

My 'learn to play' was about the 'alacrity is worthless' in the first post, which is not. It let you BURST faster and if you adapt your rotation, you will not lose dps or hps in long term.
Keep in mind, it isn't just the time, it is also the Resource Cost, and where you get put in the regen zones.

It's not worthless. It is only "nearly worthless." Obviously, this differs by specs and what you are doing. Obviously, in PvP, resource mechanics don't matter as much, and burst is king, so feel free to stack alacrity. If you need to worry about your resource and rotation, alacrity is really terrible. All of the theory-crafting sites out there agree on this point, the math detailed in this thread bears it out, and the causes and possible solutions are all described in this thread.

ZaiusKhan's Avatar


ZaiusKhan
02.04.2012 , 10:31 AM | #60
Theory-Crafting is one thing, learning to play is something else