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Imperial trooper missed opportunity.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
Imperial trooper missed opportunity.

Lordkingnicholas's Avatar


Lordkingnicholas
01.08.2019 , 04:22 PM | #1
I'm playing swtor. Talking to lieutenant piece about the bastion.Republic elite commandos.And it dawns on me that bio ware missed an opportunity.To set up a great story for the imperial trooper. Why did you put such a great thing in their bio ware.Just to ignore it out right. I'm disappointed that Bio did not add that for a Imp trooper.Chapter 3 part of the story.It would of been so cool.To be able to gather the elite soldiers needed to do the mission.It still can be.So bio ware please Add an imp trooper.Other wise lieutenant piece makes no sense.And is a waste of a character.Let me know if you agree.:i'm so mad:

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
01.09.2019 , 02:24 AM | #2
The "gather peeps for a big job" mission is already in the game; it's a six-word summary of Chapter 2 of the (Republic) Trooper story.

There's a separate argument, quite aside from that mission-design, about whether adding a third faction at the game's release(1) would have permitted an Imperial Trooper class, and also whether that would have been a good idea.

Of course, if they were going to have three factions, then it would make more sense for the design to have looked like:

Republic:
  • Jedi Knight
  • Jedi Consular
  • Republic Trooper
  • SIS Agent

Empire:
  • Sith Warrior
  • Sith Inquisitor
  • Imperial Trooper
  • Imperial Agent

Underworld:
  • Underworld Melee Force User
  • Underworld Priest/Thief Force User
  • Bounty Hunter
  • Smuggler

Notice that I can't think of a good name for the Underworld Force User classes. The factions would be unbalanced without them, but I have no idea who they would be. (That might be just a failure of my lore-geekery, of course.)

But bear in mind that the game cost a *lot* of money to develop, and it would have cost even more if they had had to pay for three factions' worth of class story writing and dialogue recording on top of two more starter planets, a pair of planets in the Taris/Balmorra sections, etc.

(1) Adding it after the fact is a basic non-starter.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

jacklinks's Avatar


jacklinks
01.09.2019 , 08:00 AM | #3
Iím not gonna pretend to know how hard it is and what it takes to add these things into the game. But whenever they add a new expansion they have to make new cutscenes, dialogues for the new characters and planets. On top of that they have to create a cinematic. Oh and the new quests. So I guess I donít see that after all the hard work, time, and money and hours put into these expansions and what not that they canít add a new class. I really think they need to pull something out of their butt to bring people back. Idk If rumors are true or false but if we do lose this game there probably wonít be another Star Wars mmo. At least for a long time and I canít handle that lol. I donít wanna see this game go down. And and space classes and story. Remake JTL LOL. Idk how many times Iíve said that lol. Rebel and imp Ace pilots and bomber class. Oh yeah baby. Space classes that would be awesome.
"Do or do not, there is no try"

SteveTheCynic's Avatar


SteveTheCynic
01.09.2019 , 11:37 AM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by jacklinks View Post
Iím not gonna pretend to know how hard it is and what it takes to add these things into the game. But whenever they add a new expansion they have to make new cutscenes, dialogues for the new characters and planets. On top of that they have to create a cinematic. Oh and the new quests. So I guess I donít see that after all the hard work, time, and money and hours put into these expansions and what not that they canít add a new class. I really think they need to pull something out of their butt to bring people back. Idk If rumors are true or false but if we do lose this game there probably wonít be another Star Wars mmo. At least for a long time and I canít handle that lol. I donít wanna see this game go down. And and space classes and story. Remake JTL LOL. Idk how many times Iíve said that lol. Rebel and imp Ace pilots and bomber class. Oh yeah baby. Space classes that would be awesome.
OK, so let's look at some of the "from the outside" obvious visible / audible artifacts related to a "new class", but we'll add it properly, with a balanced pair (one Imp, one Pub) and two paired advanced classes that you can actually play.

We won't touch the question of a third faction for this analysis. What do we, as players, see?
* New options on the character creation screen. This is the least onerous part of the whole puzzle.
* Six new voicings per faction of all shared "character-spoken" content (three languages and two sexes per faction(1))
* Two new character stories written and voiced with six voices per story (three languages, two sexes).
* Ten new companion stories written and voiced, with some "off-ship" missionnettes similar to the ones we already have in the existing classes.
* Three new ability sets per faction (base, advanced 1, advanced 2) with three disciplines each. That's one set of "raw numbers" abilities and two faction-specific naming and animation sets multiplied up by three disciplines etc.
* A pile of balancing work to make them work correctly in PvP. Well, several piles as people discover how to make them work or not work
* Rework of loot tables on every single planet so that the new classes would be correctly reflected.
* New Command Crate and other gear vendors on the Fleet.

(1) No, recording the new classes' lines only in English is not a reasonable expectation. Besides, there are places where NPC responses depend on the player's class(2), and they would need to be fixed up for a new class.(3)

(2) Example: in the beginning of Prelude to Revan/Forged Alliances, Lana Beniko addresses the character in a way that's appropriate to the character's class: "Dark Lord", "Wrath", etc.

(3) By all accounts, the "vanilla" parts of the game are a tangled mess of tangled tangledness, and modifying them is ... fraught ... at best.

*Some* of those things can be mitigated by making the new classes some sort of equivalent of "Death Knights", that is, a start-at-50 (?more likely start-at-60 straight into KotFE) class that doesn't have any interactions with the oldest content. Quite how it would work with e.g. pre-SoR Flashpoints (and even the SoR ones, frankly) is another question, and not one that's easy to answer. Overall, I think that any "mitigating" aspects would be outweighed by the "lameness" aspect. Do we really want a new class that is barred from at least 3/4 of the game's content?

A different list of things can be mitigated by making the new classes into mirrors of existing classes. If the new Impside class was "Imperial Trooper" and was an exact mirror of the current Trooper, right down to the weapons used, the names of the abilities, and so on, and the new Pubside class was an SIS Agent (with a similar relationship to "Imperial Agent", none of the "new class ability" aspects would be necessary. However, you'd still need all the class-specific dialogues, companion stories, voices, and so on, and ultimately, those are the expensive part anyway.

No, I think the "new class" ship has sailed, never to return.

Sure, I know, GW2 added a new class (Revenant) with the Heart of Thorns expansion, but there's no "per-class" dialogue anywhere in GW2. The equivalent pain point in GW2 is "race", what SWTOR calls "species", and we note in passing that GW2 has not added new races, and in fact only one new class.
http://www.swtor.com/r/Hg3sV2
To go to Belsavis, you must go to Belsavis.
> @"Biff.5312" said:
> Exercise your whimsy.

Lordkingnicholas's Avatar


Lordkingnicholas
01.10.2019 , 09:06 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
The "gather peeps for a big job" mission is already in the game; it's a six-word summary of Chapter 2 of the (Republic) Trooper story.

There's a separate argument, quite aside from that mission-design, about whether adding a third faction at the game's release(1) would have permitted an Imperial Trooper class, and also whether that would have been a good idea.

Of course, if they were going to have three factions, then it would make more sense for the design to have looked like:

Republic:
  • Jedi Knight
  • Jedi Consular
  • Republic Trooper
  • SIS Agent

Empire:
  • Sith Warrior
  • Sith Inquisitor
  • Imperial Trooper
  • Imperial Agent

Underworld:
  • Underworld Melee Force User
  • Underworld Priest/Thief Force User
  • Bounty Hunter
  • Smuggler

Notice that I can't think of a good name for the Underworld Force User classes. The factions would be unbalanced without them, but I have no idea who they would be. (That might be just a failure of my lore-geekery, of course.)

But bear in mind that the game cost a *lot* of money to develop, and it would have cost even more if they had had to pay for three factions' worth of class story writing and dialogue recording on top of two more starter planets, a pair of planets in the Taris/Balmorra sections, etc.

(1) Adding it after the fact is a basic non-starter.
I agree.Now its to late.Bio should added new classes before and after.Such imp trooper and sis agent.Before the Dlc. And after a zaalkuu l Knight scion and a child of zalkuul only if Bio went route of Ur char getting married..

Lordkingnicholas's Avatar


Lordkingnicholas
01.10.2019 , 09:12 PM | #6
Thank you all for Ur input.You all have valid points.And thank you for not posting.Just to hate on my ideas.I hope bio ware. adds a new class of some type still. As well swtor does not get shut down.Its a good game.And far better then wow. In terms of quest being easy too follow and pvp being fair.I hope swtor survives.

irrevelant's Avatar


irrevelant
01.22.2019 , 03:16 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by SteveTheCynic View Post
Republic:
  • Jedi Knight
  • Jedi Consular
  • Republic Trooper
  • SIS Agent

Empire:
  • Sith Warrior
  • Sith Inquisitor
  • Imperial Trooper
  • Imperial Agent

Underworld:
  • Underworld Melee Force User
  • Underworld Priest/Thief Force User
  • Bounty Hunter
  • Smuggler
Had this kind of idea on another forum.
Underworld melee "force user" would be the gladiator. Wouldn't use the force, but tools instead, that has the same effect.
Underworld ranged force user is kinda tricky. I would use fallen jedi/sith. Fallen jedi would act as a sage, and fallen sith would be the sith assassin style. The difference would have some minor impact in some dialogues.

However implementing such thing now might be difficult, because 2 of these classes already exist, and you would either need to rewrite their stories, or create a 2 path story.

Rewrite method: Upon giving the patch each bounty hunter, and smuggler would get a rewrite toke which resets their class questline. If you don't use it, then default options will be consiedered keeping your chosen romance option.

2 path method: One path is the same as now, but for new characters you get a new path for each planet. You would start on Nar Shadaa, and the first mission would either send to Ord Mantell, Hutta depending on dialogue choice. Once you are out from Dromund Kass/Corusant you can make choice on each planet about which side/phase you land on. The side/phase you land on will be your friendly faction for the time being, and opposite faction will be neutral, or hostile depending on reputation.

As an underworld member you start on 0 reputation for both sides. Certain quest/choices gives reputation, and others are reduce it. Once you get in unfriendly status you no longer get quests from imperial personel. Once you get into hostile status you can no longer land on their side/phase. If you avoid certain planet stories, and certain side quests then you can maintain your neutrality. Of course the class story get a new path on the other side as well.