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Thoughts on how to reanimate Team Ranked PvP

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Thoughts on how to reanimate Team Ranked PvP

bladech's Avatar


bladech
02.13.2019 , 06:27 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by andisim View Post
First there were cries of mat farmers destroying the oh so precious queue, now its crying the queue is dead.
With upping the weekly the com got exactly what it was crying for, no? Does TR pop at all now?, haven't seen anybody search for groups in weeks. Classic case of careful what you wish for imo.
People like you Who read through fingers only 1/3 of actual texts always made me mad. PEOPLE CRIED ABOUT MAT FARMERS IN SOLO RANKED NOT TEAM RANKED. Got it? Next time pls read threads more attentively.

andisim's Avatar


andisim
02.13.2019 , 07:31 AM | #12
that changes everything, well not really. dead is dead

DarkLordJusticar's Avatar


DarkLordJusticar
02.13.2019 , 08:13 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
People like you Who read through fingers only 1/3 of actual texts always made me mad. PEOPLE CRIED ABOUT MAT FARMERS IN SOLO RANKED NOT TEAM RANKED. Got it? Next time pls read threads more attentively.
No, they complained about mat farmers in TR. I know, ground my way through that cess pit of hate to get a full set of augments and most my credits for quite a bit. It was an endless stream of hating. One idiot actually told me he would rather only he and his friends get to play, regardless of anyone else being in TR. Like bioware wants to keep the servers running for his mighty little bottom while the rest of us are excluded from playing.

A lot of voices in the community pushed for this, and were warned of the consequences. Now TR has been ruined for everyone involved. Not sure if Bioware cares or not. Maybe they genuinely bought the pvp propaganda that this would somehow make things better. Or maybe they just got tired of the whining and decided to nuke pvp as asked and are sitting back smirking over it, who knows? For now it just means my alt won't be getting a full set of augments, and as such probably isn't worth bothering to level. Both pvp and pve are very stat competitive in their own ways after all.
I'd like you to learn this word: Variety.

bladech's Avatar


bladech
02.13.2019 , 08:19 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkLordJusticar View Post
No, they complained about mat farmers in TR. I know, ground my way through that cess pit of hate to get a full set of augments and most my credits for quite a bit. It was an endless stream of hating. One idiot actually told me he would rather only he and his friends get to play, regardless of anyone else being in TR. Like bioware wants to keep the servers running for his mighty little bottom while the rest of us are excluded from playing.

A lot of voices in the community pushed for this, and were warned of the consequences. Now TR has been ruined for everyone involved. Not sure if Bioware cares or not. Maybe they genuinely bought the pvp propaganda that this would somehow make things better. Or maybe they just got tired of the whining and decided to nuke pvp as asked and are sitting back smirking over it, who knows? For now it just means my alt won't be getting a full set of augments, and as such probably isn't worth bothering to level. Both pvp and pve are very stat competitive in their own ways after all.
Havent seen anyone crying for mats in tr but saw many threads about whining about mats in sr. Definitely it wasnt pvp players who whined about tr. in any case devs didnt remove mats they just made it much harder to get them through same tr

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.13.2019 , 08:30 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
Havent seen anyone crying for mats in tr but saw many threads about whining about mats in sr. Definitely it wasnt pvp players who whined about tr. in any case devs didnt remove mats they just made it much harder to get them through same tr
I dont recal people complaining about farmers in SR. They all went to TR cause you got almost double the mats. All of ranked is pointless now since they have made one currency, which is PVP ranked coms and you can simply farm those and eventually you can buy any ranked reward. Besides the flairs and titles you get for tiers.
Merovejec
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JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
02.13.2019 , 08:49 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec
thats what has been here till now. You need something to make the Elites que against elites only, but they will not do that, cause that would pose an actual challenge..... but they just want to farm rating on lower skill people.
As much as it pains me to say it, Mero is right on this. Introducing more mat farmers will indeed entice decent teams to queue...but only to farm the mat farmers. As soon as a better team than them queues, they stop queueing and wait until it's only mat farmers again. These teams are only interested in rating, not actual competition.

For those saying the "be careful what you wish for" nonsense, you are wrong. if granked completely dies from lack of mat farmers, so be it, it deserves to die. There is no point in having a "ranked pvp" mode that only consists of average players beating up on complete noobs and then thinking they're good because they get a high rating. If all of the good granked teams left are unwilling to play against each other then that is their issue. I will be very interested to see what ratings will look like in season 11.

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
02.13.2019 , 09:45 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
Mero is right on this.
Omg someone pinch me!

But seriously. Ranked suffers with low population and a small band of pvpers who alwyas get top spots with many different ways. Lets be honest they are very very good players, I always said that. They just want top spots secured for them. I do not think there is a way to fix this. There would suddenly have to be way more good players in ranked and that is simply not happening.

Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
I will be very interested to see what ratings will look like in season 11.
Its actually simple, group ranked will become what it was in season 9, it will be a fast and easy way for cheaters to get easy top 3s since overall rating will be low.
Merovejec
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Metthew's Avatar


Metthew
02.13.2019 , 10:35 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
For those saying the "be careful what you wish for" nonsense, you are wrong. if granked completely dies from lack of mat farmers, so be it, it deserves to die. There is no point in having a "ranked pvp" mode that only consists of average players beating up on complete noobs and then thinking they're good because they get a high rating. If all of the good granked teams left are unwilling to play against each other then that is their issue. I will be very interested to see what ratings will look like in season 11.
Tbh group ranked is pretty much the only place you can reliably execute complex strats, since solo ranked has no voice comms and also no population for the ELO system to work (meaning you oftentimes don't have enough decent players to execute the more intricate strats). Team ranked was a great thing that the devs inadvertently brought it to life, and it is a shame that it is going to die.

Also, I really do not see how incentivising players to try it in one shape or form is bad. With the current matchmaking, you really cannot inflate people to 3k rating anyways, mat teams or no mat teams. Furthermore, having mats would allow players to get into the scene. Decent players would actually form teams for casual team ranked, that no longer happens (unlike in WoW).

That, and nobody wants to be a decent player but get utterly farmed in team ranked because they're the worst of the total of 5-6 teams who are willing to queue team ranked. Just like how a tournament grade LoL team would not want to be placed in wood league just because only world champions are queueing when they do. The game has a population issue and "punish the top teams for their unwillingness" isn't really the way to solve this.
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JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
02.13.2019 , 11:19 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Metthew
Tbh group ranked is pretty much the only place you can reliably execute complex strats, since solo ranked has no voice comms and also no population for the ELO system to work (meaning you oftentimes don't have enough decent players to execute the more intricate strats). Team ranked was a great thing that the devs inadvertently brought it to life, and it is a shame that it is going to die.

Also, I really do not see how incentivising players to try it in one shape or form is bad. With the current matchmaking, you really cannot inflate people to 3k rating anyways, mat teams or no mat teams. Furthermore, having mats would allow players to get into the scene. Decent players would actually form teams for casual team ranked, that no longer happens (unlike in WoW).

That, and nobody wants to be a decent player but get utterly farmed in team ranked because they're the worst of the total of 5-6 teams who are willing to queue team ranked. Just like how a tournament grade LoL team would not want to be placed in wood league just because only world champions are queueing when they do. The game has a population issue and "punish the top teams for their unwillingness" isn't really the way to solve this.
But what you're asking for is what was already in place before the recent change to the weekly. The competitive utopia that you're wishing for did not exist then, and it would not exist in the future if things went backwards. Again, all that happened was farming mat farmers and queue dodging. That's what it would return to. At least now it will be harder for average players to farm rating that they don't deserve. Perhaps Mero is right and it will be easier for actual wintraders to manipulate, but that's up to bioware to monitor.

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.13.2019 , 01:02 PM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
But what you're asking for is what was already in place before the recent change to the weekly. The competitive utopia that you're wishing for did not exist then, and it would not exist in the future if things went backwards. Again, all that happened was farming mat farmers and queue dodging. That's what it would return to. At least now it will be harder for average players to farm rating that they don't deserve. Perhaps Mero is right and it will be easier for actual wintraders to manipulate, but that's up to bioware to monitor.
Why keep using the present ELO system that has failed for years now? For instance, if "rating" is accrued via points that are gained from wins/losses meaning players are not punished horribly for losses, wouldn't this encourage more to participate?

Say a win gives you 5 points, a loss gives you 2 points... At least you still gain something even on losses, at least you don't lose anything.

200 points = bronze
300 points = silver
500 points = gold

Something like this. ^

First of all, BW has shown they are incapable of stopping queue dodging, win trades, and other shenanigans the players love to employ to gain high ELO.

Secondly, players feel pressure to not lose due to the importance of each win... This only encourages people to avoid losses at all costs.

There's just far too many angles for people to troll their way to high ELO, and it's clear these types of players care nothing that others suffer due to such shenanigans meaning they will not stop.

Having a points system based on wins or possibly wins/losses eliminates the need to avoid losses, it also encourages people to play more matches because they will need more than 10 matches to get a decent rating.

Do you not think this would be better than the present ELO system SWTOR has, and if not, explain why? You sound reasonable, I want to hear yours and others' opinions why this would not be better, or if you agree it would.
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