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Please do not waste your time brining back expertise. It has nothing to do with pvp.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Please do not waste your time brining back expertise. It has nothing to do with pvp.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
02.10.2019 , 08:24 PM | #1
I really hope that they are not wasting ressources on bringing back expertise if there goal of brining it back is to attract "pvpers" for 6.0. I hope their focus is to bridge accessibility to end game gear (atm 258) through PvP activities. That is what pvpers actually want and I am certain that that is a lot easier to do than to change the whole system again. Like What is expertise and what does it have to do with pvp anyways? Expertise is just a STAT, just like alacrity, crit, accuracy etc. Expertise only benefited players in pvp situations and did nothing in pve encounters. When they removed expertise so that 1 set of gear can be viable for all content (both pve and pvp) what did that change in regards to pvp? The answer is nothing. Are you less of a pvper because you all of a sudden dont have some kind of stat that affects your type of content (pvp)? If you answer is yes to that, then the only thing you seem to be having is a simple identity crisis, because having expertise on your gear or not, has NOTHING to do with you being a pvper. Being a pvper is all about the enjoyment of PLAYER vs PLAYER combat. If I have crit and you dont have any, does that make me less of a pvper than you? No. So why do some of you feel they should bring back expertise? what would be a good reason to bring it back if there is simply a better way for them to bring pvpers easier access to the best endgame gear through pvp activities?
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.10.2019 , 08:28 PM | #2
are you actually advising against expertise... without knowing why it even existed?

by the way, it still exists. expertise is your mastery stat. when expertise was "removed" it was renamed mastery, given a different effect, and applied to pve gear. this is very important information... because... there is no heavy change. they will just put it back. the coding already exists. it never went away

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
02.10.2019 , 08:51 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
are you actually advising against expertise... without knowing why it even existed?

by the way, it still exists. expertise is your mastery stat. when expertise was "removed" it was renamed mastery, given a different effect, and applied to pve gear. this is very important information... because... there is no heavy change. they will just put it back. the coding already exists. it never went away

Im sry m8, but from now on I will most likely disregard most of anything you say since so much info you try to provide other players it just wrong and therefore completely useless and pointless to any argument you have tried to make. Expertise did not become mastery. Expertise is 100% gone atm. Mastery is the stat that replaced cunning, strength, willpower and aim. you really need to get your facts straight for anyone to even give you any kind of credibility. I am no coder, so I cant speak to the difficulty of the task of bringing it back, I simply base my knowledge on the fact they said they will only make that kind of change with an expansion size update which to me means its most likely a bigger deal than not. When they introduced mastery, it was similar to power, the difference is that it provided some crit % aswell (not the surge/multiplier part). power gave something like 0.23 per point of bonus damage and mastery gave 0.20 bonus damage and a very small crit % increase. That's how the original things were after the removal of expertise.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.10.2019 , 09:21 PM | #4
lul. well at least you have some idea of what "stats" are. yes I was trolling.

its a pity that someone who thinks they have so much information is so blind to game mechanics. I dont need you to respect what I say... specialy when you have no idea what expertise was for, and think this game is designed for 8v8. regardless of the fact that game mode failed long ago and has been completely erased from the dev agenda in terms of balance. but you do you. you obviously know more than me.

Post edit: on further thought.. I decided mockery may not be the solution here. so instead of making fun of you I'll tell you what it for and why it needs to return and why exactly it is so important to pvp.

expertise was a stat that increased your damage by 60% and your damage reduction by like 35% or something.... basically it buffed your damage reduction and damage equaly. you didnt gain a stat buff by using it.

so why did it exist? because gear with expertise was cheaply earned quickly, allowing pvp to be a very fast gearing mode, because pvp is an action mode not a progression one.

why does this affect 5.0? because throught this entire expansion (with the exception of 5.10) gear has ruled pvp and gear was much harder to earn doing pvp than pve. couple of hm op carrys and you had full 242 ready for uppgrades. took you one week. do it with pvp? took a month or two.


last but not least.. you dont believe me? you think im stupid, assuming bs? take a look at swtors population nnumbers between 5.0 launch and now. take a look at the servers, server locations, sub numbers, and swtor income. something sure scared off a lot of players.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.10.2019 , 09:45 PM | #5
Expertise is to seperate people using pve gear in pvp and getting the same as if they had ground out pvp gear.

That is the only way I can see with separating the gear.

So no, expertise should come back with pvp gear and pve gear separated by different ways of acquiring it.

We need to have two sets of gear. Combining it is what’s caused all of this *********** gearing mess to start with.

I’m sorry OP, but you are wrong. We need expertise back.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
02.10.2019 , 10:41 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
lul. well at least you have some idea of what "stats" are. yes I was trolling.

its a pity that someone who thinks they have so much information is so blind to game mechanics. I dont need you to respect what I say... specialy when you have no idea what expertise was for, and think this game is designed for 8v8. regardless of the fact that game mode failed long ago and has been completely erased from the dev agenda in terms of balance. but you do you. you obviously know more than me.

Post edit: on further thought.. I decided mockery may not be the solution here. so instead of making fun of you I'll tell you what it for and why it needs to return and why exactly it is so important to pvp.

expertise was a stat that increased your damage by 60% and your damage reduction by like 35% or something.... basically it buffed your damage reduction and damage equaly. you didnt gain a stat buff by using it.

so why did it exist? because gear with expertise was cheaply earned quickly, allowing pvp to be a very fast gearing mode, because pvp is an action mode not a progression one.

why does this affect 5.0? because throught this entire expansion (with the exception of 5.10) gear has ruled pvp and gear was much harder to earn doing pvp than pve. couple of hm op carrys and you had full 242 ready for uppgrades. took you one week. do it with pvp? took a month or two.


last but not least.. you dont believe me? you think im stupid, assuming bs? take a look at swtors population nnumbers between 5.0 launch and now. take a look at the servers, server locations, sub numbers, and swtor income. something sure scared off a lot of players.
you really seem to have a problem with numbers. you say it increased you damage done by 60% and damage reduction by about 35% (I dont remember the exact numbers, but it was similar to this) and your next sentence says that " it basically buffed your damage reduction and damage equally" so, 60 does NOT equal 35, if you cant see that I seriously have no clue how to help you with that. In regards to what expertise was as a function, to me it only did one thing, it gave a strong boost to those who had it in pvp vs someone who did not. two people who had the same expertise, you can say that neither of those two had any expertise. if I had 2k and my opponent had 2k BOTH out boost to damage done and damage reduction (whatever the % was) would be the same. if both players had 0 expertise, guess what the bonus to damage done and damage reduction would be the same aswell--->> which is what our current gearing system is like. there is no difference between players and therefore expertise is useless as a stat. In regards to your trolling and so called first instinct to mock others, that behavior is the true problem that has hurt the ranked community over the years. Ill talk a little about that later.


Gear has never ruled pvp in this game. You can give the best gear to the dumbest player and give the worst gear to a smart player and the smart player will win 100% of the time. gear only makes a partial difference when looking at players of similar skill along with RNG crits of course.


It was indeed easier to gear out for pvp back in the day for sure, but that had nothing to do with the fact that our gear had a stat called expertise, it did not cost you expertise to buy your pieces of gear. so again ill state it again: expertise was useless. The focus is all on how long it took a pvper to get the best gear for pvp. If the time it took to get the best gear for pvp that also had expertise (in the past) on it took you for example 10 hours, and it also took you 10 hours to get the best gear for both pve and pvp (today). Why in the world would you not prefer to take the gearing system of today in which you only need 1 set of gear to do all content in the game.


The reality is that it does not take the same 10 hours TODAY to get a full set of gear. That is the problem, not expertise. As I said in my original post at the end, their focus and ressources should be directed towards bridging that time gap that it takes to get a full set of gear by doing only pvp activities. That has nothing to do with expertise, so I ask again why in the world do you want them to waste their time brining back a stat that was useless.


You ask why do you think people have been leaving this game, I have 3 main reasons (1 pve, 3.5 pvp). For PVE focused players, its the lack of new content over a set period of time. 1 operation in one year? maybe 2-3 flashpoints? people got bored of it real fast. people cleared the content in 1-2 months and got nothing new for the next 10? im not surprised most of them left. In PvP, the first reason is the lack of SMALL balance changes, its been the same meta for way too long of a period and people all want there favorite class to somewhat have the perception that there class is the strongest at somepoint. The second, is also the lack of new Wz's types, reskin of civil war with a couple minor differences is not what I consider a new wz. The third is the matchmaking, its I believe to be a consensus that any kind of backfilling to anything needs to be a replacement of the same role (tank leaves, tank comes in its place) if one cannot be found because no other tank for example is in q, then perhaps offer an option for every1 to leave that wzs and have first priority back in the q (just an idea). The last little bit is specific to the ranked community. There needed to be some sort of ingame official that can review suspicious behavior IMMEDIATELY and take action right away. Its people who troll ranked (since you said you like to troll, please stop queueing for ranked, your kind of behavior is not welcome in a competitive setting), leave mid game on purpose, doesn't actually play once they are in the game, throw to make people they dont like lose, throw to make friends win, actual hacking of the game. All these BEHAVIORAL problems that have gone unpunished for basicly forever have caused most ranked players to no longer care and leave the game. These are what I believe are the main reasons people have and will continue to leave this awesome game if things do not change.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
02.10.2019 , 10:46 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Expertise is to seperate people using pve gear in pvp and getting the same as if they had ground out pvp gear.

That is the only way I can see with separating the gear.

So no, expertise should come back with pvp gear and pve gear separated by different ways of acquiring it.

We need to have two sets of gear. Combining it is what’s caused all of this *********** gearing mess to start with.

I’m sorry OP, but you are wrong. We need expertise back.
I much rather have 1 gear set that does both kinds of activities then have to grind out 2 different sets of gear for both types. Fix the gap that it takes to get a full set of gear compared to what it was in the past and you will rather have 1 set of gear too, if you disagree with that then your simply arguing for the sake of arguing and bring nothing to any kind of discussion. Expertise has nothing to do with the time it takes to gear, therefore expertise is useless and they should not waste their time brining it back.
All Galaxy Hybrid-Clicker Shadow

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
02.10.2019 , 10:59 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Expertise is to seperate people using pve gear in pvp and getting the same as if they had ground out pvp gear.

That is the only way I can see with separating the gear.

So no, expertise should come back with pvp gear and pve gear separated by different ways of acquiring it.

We need to have two sets of gear. Combining it is what’s caused all of this *********** gearing mess to start with.

I’m sorry OP, but you are wrong. We need expertise back.
If I have to GRIND two sets of gear after they bring back expertise than NO.... please forget about it. It should never return.

You are very naive to think that PVP gear will be so easy to get like it was pre 5.0. it will never be that easy and with one set of gear I can do both PVE and PVP.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.10.2019 , 11:05 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
you really seem to have a problem with numbers. you say it increased you damage done by 60% and damage reduction by about 35% (I dont remember the exact numbers, but it was similar to this) and your next sentence says that " it basically buffed your damage reduction and damage equally" so, 60 does NOT equal 35,
https://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comme..._bonus_damage/ im kinda dumb.

also, this game has been given a lot of content.... everything from uprisings,, an operation, flashpoints, story, story based flash points, 3 new wzs, 2 new arenas, reg matchmaking.... we could go on but whats the point. your mind is made up.

(3 wzs? OPG was 5.0 wasnt it?after three years of a stale meta their just melting together...)

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
02.10.2019 , 11:13 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by DavidAtkinson View Post
If I have to GRIND two sets of gear after they bring back expertise than NO.... please forget about it. It should never return.

You are very naive to think that PVP gear will be so easy to get like it was pre 5.0. it will never be that easy and with one set of gear I can do both PVE and PVP.
Well it’s my opinion, you don’t need to agree. But that doesn’t mean I’m wrong or you’re right. Just different perspective.

I’d prefer 2 sets to seperate the gear system. That way they can make the grind as hard as they wan and for raiders and gear grinders and it doesn’t impact on pvpers.

BioWare said themselves during 3.x that gearing for pvp back then was too slow. I’d definitely accept that sort of philosophy again and I’d hope they would consider that if they split the gear.

Regardless, unless they change this current system soon, I won’t be here to find out what they end up doing.