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Exfiltrate Should be Removed [version 2]

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Exfiltrate Should be Removed [version 2]

Lhancelot's Avatar


Lhancelot
02.20.2019 , 03:17 PM | #51
Quote: Originally Posted by Majspuffen View Post
Yes, removing exfiltrate would only work in the larger picture of an ability pruning across the board. In my opinion, BIoWare needs to revisit the classes and distribute various CCs, mobility abilities and immunities to the right classes.
This is a major point I agree with.

I'd love for them to take the time to kind of restructure class abilities, refine the CC, tone down some of the movement enhancements etc.

The thing is to do this they would need to devote some real attention to the game and at this point BW seems uninterested in doing that.
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Trauglodyte's Avatar


Trauglodyte
02.20.2019 , 04:18 PM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by Lhancelot View Post
This is a major point I agree with.

I'd love for them to take the time to kind of restructure class abilities, refine the CC, tone down some of the movement enhancements etc.

The thing is to do this they would need to devote some real attention to the game and at this point BW seems uninterested in doing that.
Probably less uninterested and more strapped for resources on a non-cashcow business unit. At this point, they're just keeping the lights on and milking what profit that they can squeeze out of a dying cow. Sadly, this game could have been amazing. The kicker is that the aspect of the game that makes it so much fun - the "choose your own path" class story - is also the one overarching financial sink that probably ruined the game. Bioware made the poor choice of putting the single player content above end game content, balance, and bug fixes. While I hate the cliche 80/20 rule, they did, point of fact, invest 80% to get 20%.
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Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
02.20.2019 , 09:32 PM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
At not point did I ever say that it was broken. Did you read Lethality Op as "Lethality is OP"? Op = Operative. And, I'm well aware that you have to roll to do it which is why I wrote that it procs off of Exfiltrate (ie. the roll). Did you even read what I wrote? Seriously!
you said quote "super"heal, a term generaly used to exaggerate a desciption, to give it importance over what someone else may already know. you also had several descriptiions preceeding superheal like "zero gcd" again pushing the idea you thought it was above average cd, maybe even on par with con roll, but that is an assumption on my part.

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
02.22.2019 , 02:34 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
In reality, Exfiltrate only exists because the skill package got pruned. Once classes were determined at level 1 and abilities were consolidated to their appropriate classes - I really miss having Explosive Probe, Kneel, Roll to Cover, and Snipe on my Op, it was quickly found that Ops needed something to elongate the engagement range and to allow them to gain ground, when in pursuit of a target. Let's be honest, Sever Tendon and the Curbing Strategies (Masterful skill - Overload Shot reduces target's speed by 40% for 6 seconds) are both lackluster, since their restricted to a 10 meter max range. So, if they didn't add Exfiltrate, what would the option have been?
Right you are, although Operatives lost their core abilities over a long span of time. Once Exfiltrate was added, the design-focus for the Operative completely changed. Those abilities that you mentioned -- Explosive Probe, Kneel, Roll to Cover, Snipe -- those were the ones that hooked me to the class in the first place. Might sound like a rosetinted overstatement, but it's true. Explosive Probe reminded me of the Engineer-class from Mass Effect 2, which was my favourite in that game, and I thought the cover-system was really interesting. It was something fresh and new to the MMO-genre. I would often experiment with it, see which attacks I could dodge or not. In Warzones I'd find good cover points to roll to if I were in need of a gap closer or an escape tool. Cover was an ability that could be used in so many creative ways. Exfiltrate is really bland in comparison.

And since someone is going to ask: I must say that I do not really like the Sniper's cover it since it's so static. Snipers must pretty much always sit in cover whereas the Operative was more flexible and used Cover specifically for the benefits that Cover gave. I know that the designers said that they never intended for Operatives to use Cover after level 10, as their justification to remove it, but this was just talk. Check the early game development screenshots of the Operative and you'll see that Operatives were designed to be able to take cover against walls, as well as midsection cover points. Also, there is this quote from a thread that is now gone:
Quote: Originally Posted by GeorgZoeller View Post
Let me be completely clear here:

The behavior you describe is a legitimate ability for the cover classes, it absolutely works as designed. While in cover state (which does NOT require physical cover to be present), they cannot be charged or leaped at. Gunslingers/Snipers also gain a 20% defense bonus while in cover.

The additional bonus of having physical cover (e.g. kneeling behind an object breaking line of sight to the attacker) is that normal ranged attacks will not hit you unless you expose yourself to the attacker (e.g. by shooting them).

TL;DR: Works as Designed.
Georg Zoeller is this guy: https://www.giantbomb.com/georg-zoeller/3040-104058/. Now, design may shift, but what BioWare said about Cover when it was removed was a fabricated lie. Exfiltrate was perhaps the easy solution, but not necessarily the one the original developers would have envisioned for the class. Today, Operatives plays much the same as Assassins. In the original version of the game they had a lot of similarities but where fundamentally different. And I say this as someone who's been maining an Operative imp side since day 1 and a Jedi Shadow rep side since ~patch 1.1-1.2. This is why I'm particularly bothered by Exfiltrate; it pretty much erased everything that made the Operative unique and made them generic, instead.

As for your question: if not Exfiltrate, what else? I don't know. Considering that the pace of PvP has changed so much, in the current climate Operatives needs it. Which is why I'm advocating for an ability prune aimed to slow down the pace of PvP. The underlying reason for this argument is that the engine can't handle the current pace.
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
While I agree that Exfiltrate is probably note great for the game, I'd say that it isn't game breaking. I'm all for fixing the desync issue. Since I've just come back to the game, since 2013, I'm still trying to catch up to the changes. But, I'll say this:
  • I don't like all of the CC in the game and it was as much of a problem 6 years ago as it seems now
  • It seems VERY strange that there are so many anti-CC tools, which is the natural arms build compensation to mass CC
  • All of the movement tools seem overblown and I don't understand the need for additional movement abilities at level 59
  • Also, what is up with everyone having reflection?
I agree and I think most people can agree with this. I don't think the Utility trees have been all that great. It feels like they are short on ideas on what to put there. It has gotten to the point where the game suffers from a sort of CC/Anti-CC bloat. When I returned last december I couldn't figure out what it was that made Fury Marauders immune to stuns, but would realize they got the immunity after they use Force Crush. The thing is, I still don't know what the buffs looks like because the buff and debuff-tray is filled with all these obtuse minor effects that increases x damage type by y%.
Quote: Originally Posted by Trauglodyte View Post
- lots of CC exists in the game which is why everyone has an anti-CC cool down as a base ability
- additional anti-CC skills get added, which forces all PvP players to take those abilities
- this results in the watering down of the original CC abilities, along with the presence of Resolve

Because of this, the original CC abilities are less powerful but players have additionally neutered their class's power by focusing on anti-CC skills, versus taking something to pump your abilities up. Round and around we go!
An ability pruning/re-design across the board should be in every player's interest. The state of the game right now is very chaotic. It's not completely un-fun, because if it was I wouldn't bother playing, but it is a lot less fun these days and much more frustrating than it was in the past. And as you and Lhancelot have already pointed out, BioWare is probably never going to do any sweeping changes. It's easier to maintain the product as is and milk it. Doesn't mean I'm not going to complain about it.