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The 5.10 Gear Changes Don't Work. Devs, Don't Be Stubborn.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The 5.10 Gear Changes Don't Work. Devs, Don't Be Stubborn.

Toraak's Avatar


Toraak
01.16.2019 , 06:18 PM | #11
Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks. While I admit the RNG part can be annoying, there are ways to completely remove the RNG. Skip the Ossu weekly, and farm MWS on many alts and purchase the pieces you want on those alts with Crystals, then use legacy gear to finish it off.

I think to many of us have simply gotten to used to getting gear really easily, and have forgotten that in most of the MMO's out there it can take months of hard work to get BiS gear, then many more months to Min/max that.

As for PvP players not being happy about being forced to do PvE content. I hate to say it, but PvE players have been doing that for years. BW simply wants all of its players to play all parts of the game regardless if we enjoy it or not. I know I seldom do PvP since I don't care for the mechanics of PvP in this game (Loved PvP in other MMO's), however BW continues to try and force PvE players into PvP with CMT's, and UC's for upgrading gear from 5.x-5.9, so we all need to face reality, BW will force all of us to do content we don't care for. Except that reality for what it is.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.16.2019 , 06:44 PM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks. While I admit the RNG part can be annoying, there are ways to completely remove the RNG. Skip the Ossu weekly, and farm MWS on many alts and purchase the pieces you want on those alts with Crystals, then use legacy gear to finish it off.

I think to many of us have simply gotten to used to getting gear really easily, and have forgotten that in most of the MMO's out there it can take months of hard work to get BiS gear, then many more months to Min/max that.

As for PvP players not being happy about being forced to do PvE content. I hate to say it, but PvE players have been doing that for years. BW simply wants all of its players to play all parts of the game regardless if we enjoy it or not. I know I seldom do PvP since I don't care for the mechanics of PvP in this game (Loved PvP in other MMO's), however BW continues to try and force PvE players into PvP with CMT's, and UC's for upgrading gear from 5.x-5.9, so we all need to face reality, BW will force all of us to do content we don't care for. Except that reality for what it is.
As I said I personally am not bothered by the gear grind. I just do it at my own pace and don't feel a rush at all.

But where does the outrage come from then, I ask? It's been a huge topic of contention between players and I have seen critique after critique expressed at the 5.10 gearing changes.
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Yeldah_'s Avatar


Yeldah_
01.16.2019 , 06:49 PM | #13
The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.

SaerethDL's Avatar


SaerethDL
01.16.2019 , 06:52 PM | #14
Listen basically they know this sucks, but they want to keep people playing for a while, subbing, and doing this grind for the next 6+ months while they figure out some new content.. I mean that's it, people have ran out of stuff to do and are leaving the game... this gives players something to do. Don't be surprised if there is a new level/gear grind in 6.0 with more Command Ranks and RNG loot boxes.
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phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.16.2019 , 06:53 PM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by Toraak View Post
Nothing is really wrong with this gearing system. Do people have to work to get BiS? Yes, as it should be. Nobody should be able to get a full set of BiS gear in 1-2 weeks.
Quote: Originally Posted by RobertFKennedyUS View Post
Could you make the case for why you say the 5.10 gear changes don't work?
I won't claim to speak for everyone who dislikes the system, but I can identify several of the problems I have, which I believe others have as well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a Master Mode Gods from the Machine -capable player nor am I a Gold tier ranked pvp'er. I am a filthy casual, occasional Vet Mode, eager to learn Master Modes, all types of content, player

1.) Regardless of how palatable a person may find the masterwork data crystal grind, the crafting pathway for 258 gear is absolutely not faster than the MDCs. This runs counter to the developer's stated goal of having crafting be the fastest way. Now, if you consider that an influence 50 companion will be able to craft the 258 piece in a matter of minutes, as opposed to weeks to get sufficient MDCs well, then, you're missing the point. Its the resource material requirements, which are absolutely out of whack.
2.) This system renders Galactic Command largely useless for primary toons. It turns the crates into factories for churning out very small quantities of unassembled components. Its a grind from 1-300 that is largely pointless for your primary toons. Its definitely pointless under CR 300 for all toons. GC is still useful for alts or for other discipline sets, but its usefulness has been greatly diminished.
3.) This system shoehorns folks into doing one type of content in one location in the game at end game that isn't even the content for which the gear is designed. There is a rotating weekly for an extra MDC, but it rotates every two weeks. The rotating weekly is broken for 1 out of the 3 versions we've had over the past 6 weeks. Either way, that weekly consists of content that can be done in a few hours, and you have to go right back to that same zone everyone else is in.
4.) More importantly than the slowness of the system is its alt-unfriendliness. To gear up a single toon requires you to grind content on alts, just to earn MDCs, that will immediately go to one or two of your primary toons. The alts become very sophisticated mules for maybe a couple of your mains. All the work done on those toons does not benefit them, except through a neutered galactic command system. GC was good because at least the things you did on that character benefitted that character. Earning MDCs on toon B simply to buy a piece of gear that will immediately go to toon A, who is a completely different class, and in the process essentially setting your toon B back by WEEKS in the gear grind, is not a paradigm that is sustainable.

Those are my biggest objections to the system, Mr. Kennedy.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.16.2019 , 06:55 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeldah_ View Post
The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.
I imagine that, with the content drought between now and whatever the next story update may be, that is Bioware's reasoning behind having implemented the 5.10 gear changes despite heavy protestations in the PTS forums.
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.16.2019 , 07:00 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I won't claim to speak for everyone who dislikes the system, but I can identify several of the problems I have, which I believe others have as well. DISCLAIMER: I am not a Master Mode Gods from the Machine -capable player nor am I a Gold tier ranked pvp'er. I am a filthy casual, occasional Vet Mode, eager to learn Master Modes, all types of content, player

1.) Regardless of how palatable a person may find the masterwork data crystal grind, the crafting pathway for 258 gear is absolutely not faster than the MDCs. This runs counter to the developer's stated goal of having crafting be the fastest way. Now, if you consider that an influence 50 companion will be able to craft the 258 piece in a matter of minutes, as opposed to weeks to get sufficient MDCs well, then, you're missing the point. Its the resource material requirements, which are absolutely out of whack.
2.) This system renders Galactic Command largely useless for primary toons. It turns the crates into factories for churning out very small quantities of unassembled components. Its a grind from 1-300 that is largely pointless for your primary toons. Its definitely pointless under CR 300 for all toons. GC is still useful for alts or for other discipline sets, but its usefulness has been greatly diminished.
3.) This system shoehorns folks into doing one type of content in one location in the game at end game that isn't even the content for which the gear is designed. There is a rotating weekly for an extra MDC, but it rotates every two weeks. The rotating weekly is broken for 1 out of the 3 versions we've had over the past 6 weeks. Either way, that weekly consists of content that can be done in a few hours, and you have to go right back to that same zone everyone else is in.
4.) More importantly than the slowness of the system is its alt-unfriendliness. To gear up a single toon requires you to grind content on alts, just to earn MDCs, that will immediately go to one or two of your primary toons. The alts become very sophisticated mules for maybe a couple of your mains. All the work done on those toons does not benefit them, except through a neutered galactic command system. GC was good because at least the things you did on that character benefitted that character. Earning MDCs on toon B simply to buy a piece of gear that will immediately go to toon A, who is a completely different class, and in the process essentially setting your toon B back by WEEKS in the gear grind, is not a paradigm that is sustainable.

Those are my biggest objections to the system, Mr. Kennedy.
Exactly this. And don't forget how the mods and enhancements are bound to their specific gear piece category and an accuracy enhancement from a boot piece can't be put in a head piece for example if you want to minmax. Which previously has always been possible. Also, the set bonuses don't add up with 248 set bonus gear. So you have to get a full 252 or 258 gear set to get the set bonus (which is a bug true, but one they're taking sweet time to fix)

In regards to crafting, I haven't been able to find any of the Forgotten mats on the GTN yet and they're supposedly sellable on the GTN. I had been hoping to craft some of the pieces but sadly, absolutely no luck there yet.
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phalczen's Avatar


phalczen
01.16.2019 , 07:21 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Ylliarus View Post
And don't forget how the mods and enhancements are bound to their specific gear piece category and an accuracy enhancement from a boot piece can't be put in a head piece for example if you want to minmax. Which previously has always been possible.
I won't address the set boni issue because its an acknowledged bug, regardless of the time its taking to fix it isn't intended.

The intentional change to item modifications being bound-to-anatomical gear slot issue, that is gotten around by purchasing an extra healer chest piece and extra healer feet to replace the enhancements that normally come in a dps piece. Since the mod slot is also bound to anatomical slot and dps/healer pieces already have the unlettered lethal mods, its minimally useful to put it in legacy gear, assuming you have a proper piece to put it in. It is still possible to min-max but it is much more cumbersome let alone time-consuming. It also isn't intuitive, since it may require some classes to buy gear from an entirely different class (Jedi Knights have no heal spec in any advanced class for example.) This is another example of toon B being a mere mule for toon A's gearing. Other people may be OK with this but I have a philosophical problem with toon B doing end game content merely to fuel toon A's gearing and setting toon B back in the process.
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Syal's Avatar


Syal
01.17.2019 , 01:20 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Yeldah_ View Post
The 5.10 gear changes (including the time gate attached to acquisition) is the most profitable gearing system for Bioware. Why would they not do it? The delay on getting the new gear means players have to subscribe for longer before they procure it. More sub time = more $$$ for the Bioware folks. Sounds like they have it right.
Since the release population decrease ! The grind and RNG for BIS don't seems to attract players...
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Ylliarus's Avatar


Ylliarus
01.17.2019 , 03:02 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by phalczen View Post
I won't address the set boni issue because its an acknowledged bug, regardless of the time its taking to fix it isn't intended.

The intentional change to item modifications being bound-to-anatomical gear slot issue, that is gotten around by purchasing an extra healer chest piece and extra healer feet to replace the enhancements that normally come in a dps piece. Since the mod slot is also bound to anatomical slot and dps/healer pieces already have the unlettered lethal mods, its minimally useful to put it in legacy gear, assuming you have a proper piece to put it in. It is still possible to min-max but it is much more cumbersome let alone time-consuming. It also isn't intuitive, since it may require some classes to buy gear from an entirely different class (Jedi Knights have no heal spec in any advanced class for example.) This is another example of toon B being a mere mule for toon A's gearing. Other people may be OK with this but I have a philosophical problem with toon B doing end game content merely to fuel toon A's gearing and setting toon B back in the process.
Exactly! The bound-to-anatomical gear slot thing is specifically done to prolong the gear grind. It's why the current gearing changes are completely alt-unfriendly and people keep commenting on it how it needs to be changed. Because I absolutely agree with you there, no alt should be a mule to get our main(s) geared up.

It's why Galactic Command, after the devs had listened to the playerbase and made changes to it, actually was an enjoyable and alt friendly way to gear up. But with Ossus Galactic Command has basically been rendered useless.

But it's what bothers me about the way how the devs do things. They implement an idea despite people saying "that's a bad idea", then realise "oh my, we never knew the players didn't like that!" when the amount of subs start to drop and then listen to what the players want. Exactly the same has happened with KotFEET's story, majority of the people didn't want that setting and only after years of criticism, negativity and declining amount of subs, did the devs listen to the players and return to the Empire vs Republic story.

Since it's happened so frequently already, I don't see why the devs just can't listen to the playerbase from the start. Sure, they're the devs but they are making this game for us, we are the target audience, we have to like it. So surely it's not an outlandish concept to listen to what we - the players and payers - want?
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This MMO deserves a revitalization, by receiving more funding, resources, manpower and publicity. If you agree with this, sign the petition to EA and Disney here!
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