As it stands, Sage/Sorc healers outclass the other options by far. The Force Armor ability, which provides excellent protection instantly and can be applied to all teammates, is unrivaled in terms of defensive power. Sages/Sorcs also have access to a Force speed ability (if I am not mistaken) which allows them to have far greater mobility than other healers as well, and in PvP, mobility is key. As it stands if a decent Sage and a decent Scoundrel/Commando/Merc/Operative are both healing, the Sage will undoubtedly come out on top in terms of raw healing. It is also likely the Sage will have more DPS due to Force Armor being able to be "cast and forgotten", reducing the need for Sage's to monitor their teammates and be actively healing.

Please give the other classes abilities so they can keep pace with the Sage/Sorc's heals. I am a dedicated healer and I want to be as effective as possible, but I have zero interest in playing Sage/Sorc. Imo saying that all healers are equal is a complete joke.

Nobody said all healers are 100% equal-- they never are (especially in PvP). Buffs and nerfs to every class are inevitable, which is why it's important to find a class you enjoy.

I feel like I have a ridiculous amount of mobility as a Sawbones (between srmp and emergency medpack I only stop running around to nuke a few underworld medicines on a target that's getting blown up)-- even my AoE is an instant.

I do notice that a decent Sage will always outheal me in PvP, however this might have a little to do with the fact that he's a higher level-- not sure.

Nobody said all healers are 100% equal-- they never are (especially in PvP). Buffs and nerfs to every class are inevitable, which is why it's important to find a class you enjoy.

 

I feel like I have a ridiculous amount of mobility as a Sawbones (between srmp and emergency medpack I only stop running around to nuke a few underworld medicines on a target that's getting blown up)-- even my AoE is an instant.

 

I do notice that a decent Sage will always outheal me in PvP, however this might have a little to do with the fact that he's a higher level-- not sure.

Our AoE is a joke of a 31-point talent, don't try and make it sound nicer just because it's insta-cast.

And honestly, with the fact that Sorc. talent HoT adds an armor buff, and their shield absorbs a massive amount of damage and can be reapplied every 20 seconds, it's not a comparison.

If you want proof, look at the Operative tree. Pick out the talents that you think are worthless. Now look at the Sorcerer tree and do the same thing.

Their healing tree is awesome - it's dynamic, adds interesting abilities and buffs, and really looks like a lot of fun.

The Operative healing tree is a half-baked mess - so many of the talents are worthless such that I cannot justify putting more than 25 points in that tree; and I want the name and email address of the dev who thought that forcing us to put 4 points into Diagnostic Scan to make it a little less than useless was a good plan.

Bioware needs to do something different with Operative healers - while it appears they intended to use our energy mechanic to allow us to be long-term healers, they've cut too far against our healing utility to make it viable.

That is to say, who cares if we can heal constantly for 10 mins. if the group wipes in the first 2?

We need something in our toolset to give us more utility - and that's to say nothing for the (lack of) fun of healing with 3 buttons.

Please, Bioware, just look into making a little fix to Op healing. I've already detailed my Shield Probe idea in another post (I still think it's the easiest and most balanced fix, but I'm biased), but buffing Recuperative Nanotech, or making the Diagnostic Scan talents do something more meaningful would go a long way to making me not want to reroll Sorc. just to be a proper "main" healer.

Their healing tree is awesome - it's dynamic, adds interesting abilities and buffs, and really looks like a lot of fun..

Sounds like you're playing the wrong class, then. I think it looks really boring, I hate cast times, and I love Sawbones. Sure, Kolto Cloud needs a slight buff, but it IS instant (you can't ignore that) whereas Sage AoE heal has a (long) cast time. It SHOULD be more powerful because of this.

Edit: Not to mention Sage AoE heal has a longer CD

Edit 2: I'm not arguing that other healing classes need a buff, and Sages need a nerf, just arguing that other healing classes DO still have their place.

Sounds like you're playing the wrong class, then. I think it looks really boring, I hate cast times, and I love Sawbones. Sure, Kolto Cloud needs a slight buff, but it IS instant (you can't ignore that) whereas Sage AoE heal has a (long) cast time. It SHOULD be more powerful because of this.

 

Edit: Not to mention Sage AoE heal has a longer CD

I agree with you, I think I am, but at level 48 I have no desire to reroll at the moment.

I rolled Operative on the belief that I could be a "main" healer without having to do the same old boring mana bar. And I like the energy mechanic a lot; but in exchange for having a unique mechanic, we got left off utility list.

Sure, two of our three "mainstay" abilities are instacast, but they're both severely under powered compared to the Sorc. alternatives (Kolto Probe/ Slow Release Medpac requiring 2 stacks; Surgical Probe/Emergency Medpac doing just a little too little healing).

Compare Kolto Probe/SR Medpac to Sorc/Sage 11-point instacast Heal+Hot which also grants a 10% armor buff (only useful in PvE) AND grants a host of neat-o tricks to every other healing skill.

Compare Surgical Probe/Emergency Medpac to Sorc/Sage 21-point instant Heal+Hot which grants a free 8% return on force points (e.g. 40 points or the entire heal, making it free, but adding a GCD, so not spammable).

It's a much more dynamic healing class, with a much bigger "bag-of-tricks"; and that is why anyone wanting to be a "main" healer should either roll a Sorc./Sage or hope that Bioware addresses the other classes (even though we've not seen a single post indicating that it's even on their radar).

EDIT: To clarify, I'm not asking that Operative healing be made faceroll easy - I just wish that it would be brought to parity with Sorc. healing, even if it remains super difficult to do it right.

My only real beef is that Sage/Sorc, with Force Armor, have access to a tremendous "oh crap" button with a cooldown so low that you don't need to save it, unlike for example Bacta Infusion.

Added "Rescue" to that and it's really...really good.

As a Commando, I got nothing to save the butt of a DPS who suddenly aggros something because I can't really save my Bacta JUST in case, and everything else will be too slow.

The good thing though, is that unless the DPS intake is REALLY high, I can go all night long as a commando due to how the ammo system works and how fast I can replenish with Supercharge.

On my Sage, I was really good at the start, but long fights were really not healthy. I can't comment on the Resplendence talent for the Sage though (sage is 36, commando 38), but it doesn't seem like that's gonna cut it for force regen.

Also, while Salvation isn't really that good HPS/Force ratio in group, in raid, it's just THE best healing spell possible, FAR ahead of anything any other healer can put out. I mean 16 10 second decent HOT with a 2 sec cast time?

The only thing I hope is that Sage will ALWAYS have force problems if in long fights. That's their only downside. That makes tuning encounters a real challenge because the fights need to be hard enough on HPS for Sages to risk going dry at some point or REALLY ease down on the healing for a bit, while not hard enough on HPS for commandos and scoundrel to be able to use their energy system.

As a note, in PVP, Sage just owns, period. Force Armor is just THE best damage prevention in the game, it's instant, and doesn't cost nearly anything, and cooldown is just non-existant. High level sorcs with proper force and willpower are able to put up INSANE shields. Let's not talk about Rescue and Speed either..I mean..Huttball with Sage? Cakewalk...

ps: Oh, yea, 10m range interrupt on Sage and Scoundrel, none on commando...What, the...heck! That's insane damage you cannot prevent once you get high level.

Sawbones all the way. Melee healer with decent ranged attacks to fall back on if necessary. Instant AoE heal and you don't have to wear a dress!

Edit: I forgot stealth!

Are we talking PVP? CM is superior when guarded. Hands down it is the only class that can stand in the thick of fire and come out. While a sage is sprinting away and the scoundrel is popping his stealth the CM is still in the fire fight keeping his team mates up. Sage may be better for the weaker solo player but you will find most organized teams will run BH/CM healer guarded and using sage/sorc as DPS and the occasional oh crap shield.

Stealth fails me most of the time anyway. Sage's seem to take more damage than Commando's to me. That Force armor can absorb the most powerful attacks. I've had it absorb my blaster whip and back blast

im brand to swtor...and i read all these threads...and im really excited to use my BH bodyguard spec to beast the heal meters and embarasse all of you!!!!!!! that being said..im sure your all gonna kick my ***..but im still gonna have fun with my bounty hunter. i played a healer paladin in wow...and healing is just a ton of fun to me.!!!

You want meters, you've got the wrong game buddy.

You want meters, you've got the wrong game buddy.

If they don't implement combat logs for pve (we already have a meter of sorts in pvp), then this game is already over.

A very big part of MMOs is going to be min/max type of thing. If the content remains so easy that it doesn't matter that you improve your character and play well in order to get it done then the game is doomed. And there needs to be a mechanism by which you can determine if how you are playing is as effective as other methods.

If YOU want a video game without metrics to compare performance between different players/classes/skill sets (and yes this going to come down to some numbers), then you have the wrong genre, buddy.

My guess is that they are still collecting data so they can bring classes into better balance. If they had combat logs available right now there would be much noise about imbalance.

You want meters, you've got the wrong game buddy.

Did they not have a built in recount in beta?

But it was disabled or taken out because it caused a huge amount of lag?

Could swear I heard someone talking about it before the game launched.

As it stands, Sage/Sorc healers outclass the other options by far. The Force Armor ability, which provides excellent protection instantly and can be applied to all teammates, is unrivaled in terms of defensive power. Sages/Sorcs also have access to a Force speed ability (if I am not mistaken) which allows them to have far greater mobility than other healers as well, and in PvP, mobility is key. As it stands if a decent Sage and a decent Scoundrel/Commando/Merc/Operative are both healing, the Sage will undoubtedly come out on top in terms of raw healing. It is also likely the Sage will have more DPS due to Force Armor being able to be "cast and forgotten", reducing the need for Sage's to monitor their teammates and be actively healing.

 

Please give the other classes abilities so they can keep pace with the Sage/Sorc's heals. I am a dedicated healer and I want to be as effective as possible, but I have zero interest in playing Sage/Sorc. Imo saying that all healers are equal is a complete joke.

Protip: No one is playing scoundrel/operative for the healing. Except you.

^ Not at all true. Healing is one of the big reasons I went Scoundrel (the other big reason being flavor)... So far I'm only level 27 but I would not describe myself as disappointed. Haven't played much Sage, though. All that said, Scoundrel healing is fun, but also best kept in balance with the classes other aspects. It's not at all difficult to make a hybrid Sawbones/Dirty Fighting healer/melee character, which is a real blast to play.

If you want to play Scoundrel/Operative, you can still be a healer, but you still probably can't be a pure healer quite on par with a Sage/Sorc IMO. The top of the Sawbones tree doesn't look all that compelling, but you can still be a very effective healer.

Maybe Sage/Sorc do make the best healers, but you certainly don't get the mobility of a Scoundrel/Operative and (this is another class I don't know well) I doubt you get the durability of a Commando/Mercenary. Each has compelling reasons to play as them. I think the comparisons based on mechanics miss out on the broader, less tangible differences between them; just as the small differences in SC2 races lend themselves to totally different playstyles, the differences between the three healers are about more than just mechanics. Like I said, Scoundrel is all about mobility as well as versatility; a good healing-oriented Scoundrel still can be effective at combat. I'd describe Scoundrel gameplay as being able to move pretty freely around the battlefield & harass enemies and save friends at crucial junctures of your own choosing. That said, you still have to be careful; mobile as you are, if you get caught you're in a bad fix.

One realy big thing to think about:

How good is my gear and how good is the gear of they guys class i qq about.

In the begin of my sorcs 50's i started to question myselfs skills and asked why i can't heal like the 39 lvl i played already. I saw operatives and mercs who heal content i "can't" heal and i asked myself why. Another day someone drops by and told me "man you got the crappyest gear i saw EVER!". After 10 minutes of hating that son of mother i thought about his words. After some crafting action, some pvp and some hours in FP's i got gear and see, i can heal as well, and even better, then other classes WITH THE SAME GEAR.

Mercs and ops can heal as well and good as the sorc but it riquires skill MUCH more skill then the theoretcli "Classic" playstyle of a sorc.

But yeah thats simply not true the my gear is great and they have to nerf the corc ^^. Great nerf sorc healing, maybee i can play dmg after they destroyed the healing sorc ^^.

One realy big thing to think about:

 

How good is my gear and how good is the gear of they guys class i qq about.

 

In the begin of my sorcs 50's i started to question myselfs skills and asked why i can't heal like the 39 lvl i played already. I saw operatives and mercs who heal content i "can't" heal and i asked myself why. Another day someone drops by and told me "man you got the crappyest gear i saw EVER!". After 10 minutes of hating that son of mother i thought about his words. After some crafting action, some pvp and some hours in FP's i got gear and see, i can heal as well, and even better, then other classes WITH THE SAME GEAR.

 

Mercs and ops can heal as well and good as the sorc but it riquires skill MUCH more skill then the theoretcli "Classic" playstyle of a sorc.

 

But yeah thats simply not true the my gear is great and they have to nerf the corc ^^. Great nerf sorc healing, maybee i can play dmg after they destroyed the healing sorc ^^.

Bro, no one wants Seer to get destroyed, most people don't even want it nerfed at all. All we want is slight buffs to CM and Sawbones utility so that they're on par.

Sidenote: Are you Brazilian/Filipino?

my sawbones scrapper with 2pc champoin (+15% to kolto cloud) and almost 1500 cunning - kolto ticks for 450 or so every 2 seconds

my fresh 50 sage without even any daily commendations gear or mods and no pvp gear - aoe heal HITS for 680 unlmited targets (kolto cloud 4 target limit) then ticks for 300 every second for 10 seconds.

2s cast time vs instant. if you cast kolto cloud you cant cast anything else not even a hot until your energy regens three ticks or you drop into lower energy regen rate. 4 targets vs. unlimited. 1500 healing with talents and +15% from gear bonus set vs. 3680 with garbage.

luls

Sure, Kolto Cloud needs a slight buff, but it IS instant (you can't ignore that) whereas Sage AoE heal has a (long) cast time. It SHOULD be more powerful because of this..

not over 2x as powerful with no target limit considering the cost of kolto cloud prevents you from using any ability for 2-3 energy regen ticks or you drop below 60 energy.

kolto cloud should do twice as much as it does now and tick every second instead of every 2 OR It should have utility attached to it like -10% dmg or +10% armor.

kolto cloud is one of the worst 31 point talents in the game right now. there are others that are as bad or worse but this one is down there with them.

I have a level 50 sage on live. I enjoy the flavor of the scoundrel more, so I rolled one of those next. Its currently 31.

What I can say, is that my sage feels completely dominant in terms of pretty much everything. Healing as a sage, you have a pretty much infinite amount of force at your disposal. Force Armor gives you time to dot things, as well as heal, and the big one is, you have a cooldown that gives you 2 free crits for an oh **** button.

The sage also doesn't have to stop moving when you use your stun, which the scoundrel gets rooted in place during the (admittedly awesome) kick to the balls.

The sage's HoT may not heal as much as srmp, but its armor buff is well worth it.

Am I playing the wrong class? No, I enjoy the scoundrel more. But I can't really say that the scoundrel healing is even close to on par with Sages in really any way. This is in terms of utility, as well as raw healing, and honestly survivability. This is especially true in world pvp where a healing sage can fight people 1v1 pretty well. The sawbones doesn't really seem to have the energy to stay alive and deal the needed damage to kill people. The game isn't really meant for 1v1 (like most mmos) so this point only really goes so far, except when I see the argument that sawbones bring damage to the table, which in my experience isn't true if they are having to heal as well, at least, not the damage my sage can bring.

On a final note, I can say to give it time. With the class population imbalances, as well as the faction imbalances, I would completely expect to see some changing around on tiers if nothing else than to motivate people to play other things. Also worth noting is that until there are meters, all of my argument is anecdotal evidence.

I can say without a fact that sage healing is truly dominant. I've seen trooper healers in champion gear heal their asses off nonstop, and get outhealed by poorly geared fresh 50 sages by around 100-150k in warfronts (trooper had 300k ish, sage was around 450k ish). And the sage died alot too.

Keep in mind that absorbs aren't represented in the healing totals.