I subbed on game launch in 2011. I play 99% solo. Crafting was my credit sink & a way for this professional hermit to pass time. I created toons for all crafting specs, along with additional alts for gathering support. I stopped playing shortly after the launch of KOTFE / ET, when bioware ruined crafting, along with taking away all the companion gear I spent countless hours grinding for on Yavin 4. They also took away a really cool Vibroblade I bought from vendor, for all comps that use vibrosword.

https://torf.mmo-fashion.com/md-5-shock-viper-vibroblade/ It was fun watching Bowdaar and Tanno Vik run in holding the monster blade up and hack thru mobs with it. The comps lost the vibroblade, but I still have them on dual saber welding force characters.

Over the years, I've come back for a few days, then leave.

I read an article that we are supposed to FINALLY get all our original companions back after YEARS of waiting (if not using terminal), so I re-subbed to catch up one character to see if rumor is true.

On Iokath there is still a bioware (bug) that has existed since its debut in 2017. I'm sure there are still biowares they never bothered to fix since game launch.

I thought they ruined crafting way back when, they succeeded in making crafting even worse with onslaught. Only reason to max out crafting skills now is for achievements.

Reading all threads of peeps frustrated with / hating this game, It really amazes me this game has somehow lasted 10 years.

Maybe had you not quit playing and instead worked to improve the crafting system it would be where you like it today. I'm certain with the depth of detail you've provided though, Bioware will have no trouble trying create a system you might one day enjoy.

He's not wrong about crafting, they hacked and slashed it worse than Jason & Freddy put together, then they added Mike to the mess, and we have 'Nightmare on Halloween the 13th' Especially with the latest bunch of bantha poodo about to hit with the new update. As for listening to paying customers, we did plenty of interacting...well we talked, but they ignored, yet they still let the Bantha drop a big steaming one all over crafting....

I read an article that we are supposed to FINALLY get all our original companions back after YEARS of waiting (if not using terminal), so I re-subbed to catch up one character to see if rumor is true.

There's only one absentee these days, Zenith. (OK, technically Tanno Vik is absent, but at least we *met* him.)

On Iokath there is still a bioware (bug) that has existed since its debut in 2017. I'm sure there are still biowares they never bothered to fix since game launch.

Don't be cutesy. If it's a bug, call it a bug, not least because all games (and, indeed, all software in general, game or not(1)) have them, no matter who produced them. Do you call the myriad of problems with Cyberpunk 2077 "biowares"?

I thought they ruined crafting way back when, they succeeded in making crafting even worse with onslaught. Only reason to max out crafting skills now is for achievements.

Crafting's a mess, for sure. I'm curious, though, about which point in the game's history you thought it was that they had ruined crafting before?.

EDIT: footnote

(1) Over the last 30+ years of working as a software developer, I've produced a few bugs of my own, so there's no need to lecture me on this subject.

I feel you man! There are so many things in SWTOR that frustrate me. Decisions made that I simply cannot fathom and fervently wish they would reverse or at least find a better balance. Conveniences that on their own and on paper look like amazing QoL improvements, but have trivialised aspects the game and robbed sense of accomplishment. Easy, quick, trivial does not equal a better overall game.

Yet despite all that, I still think it is one of the better MMORPG games out there and every time I branch out to WoW or ESO I find myself somehow coming back here.

It has flaws, but also many good things as well.

I thought they ruined crafting way back when, they succeeded in making crafting even worse with onslaught. Only reason to max out crafting skills now is for achievements.

That's not even enough motivation for me to touch crafting as is. Considering it will be easier to achieve max rank crafting a few main builds down the road. (expansions) I'll delay my crafting achievements until changes are made.

A way to protest a patch is to not touch the system(s) affected by a patch.

I feel you man! There are so many things in SWTOR that frustrate me. Decisions made that I simply cannot fathom and fervently wish they would reverse or at least find a better balance. Conveniences that on their own and on paper look like amazing QoL improvements, but have trivialised aspects the game and robbed sense of accomplishment. Easy, quick, trivial does not equal a better overall game.

 

Yet despite all that, I still think it is one of the better MMORPG games out there and every time I branch out to WoW or ESO I find myself somehow coming back here.

 

It has flaws, but also many good things as well.

I feel exactly the same way.

Today I decided to level up a char from level 70 by running all the dailies, as I was bored with all the H2s...

Ilum, Belsavis, most of the Makeb dailies - GONE.

On Makeb they kept the dailies that their stats said peeps run the least.

The reason Bioware removes content is because they only have a one terabyte hard drive, and are too cheap to buy more storage. They have to delete files to make room for new content files.

There are codex entries that are still missing, class story specific, since game launch. As a competitionist, I will never be able to get all the codex rewards I can obtain doing solo stuff.

I'm prolly gonna call tech support and get them to permanently delete my account so I'm not tempted to ever re-sub again. I think this is the 3rd time I've re-subbed in 6 years, just to learn they keep making the game worse.

/snip.

Bye, you won't be missed.....if you really don't want to come back, give away or delete everything you have, chars, etc, buy stuff with your left over cc's, and again delete or give away, once you have absolutely nothing left, as in all deleted or given away, you'll find it harder to sub again.

There are a couple of other suggestion you can do, but they are NSFW,

I feel exactly the same way.

I tried ESO when they had their free trial thing, and I just couldn't enjoy it, the way I did ES 4 or 5. As for WOW, I gave it a quick try, and although it was fun enough, it still isn't star wars.

Here’s the problem. You think that the majority of the paying customers of this game hate what’s going on and have been banging down BioWare’s door, but getting ignored. In reality, it’s maybe a couple dozen people on the forums, while the hundreds of thousands of people subbed to the game are saying “this is fine”. And frankly, I see nothing wrong with crafting. I use it to make credits, and I’m successful at that. There are maybe two or three pieces of gear that I have ever crafted for use as actual gear.

Posting about how you’re going to unsubscribe until things change is pointless. Your $14.99 or whatever isn’t even a drop in the ocean to them. And in the grand scheme of things, the crafting changes aren’t nearly as bad as some of the other things going on in the game *cough*PvP*cough*

Here’s the problem. You think that the majority of the paying customers of this game hate what’s going on and have been banging down BioWare’s door, but getting ignored. In reality, it’s maybe a couple dozen people on the forums, while the hundreds of thousands of people subbed to the game are saying “this is fine”.

I concur. At a certain point, Bioware made a decision that it wanted to appeal to players that play a specific way. IMHO that's what led to the downfall of crafting to be replaced by the cartel market. The introduction of levelsync was partially so BW didn't have to keep churning out new content but I'm also convinced it was to appeal to players who didn't want to "grind" and have a character fully 75 in a couple days or even hours if truly committed (and if I'm wrong then explain being able to start characters at end-level). I could go on but you get the point. Bioware has a specific customer base they want to market to and those players are not complaining.

Here’s the problem. You think that the majority of the paying customers of this game hate what’s going on and have been banging down BioWare’s door, but getting ignored. In reality, it’s maybe a couple dozen people on the forums, while the hundreds of thousands of people subbed to the game are saying “this is fine”.

This is a fallacy , if you've ever worked in a decent restaurant, or retail, etc. One of the first things you should learn is that for every person that complained, 10/20 or more haven't, and instead have left the building and gone somewhere else.

You apply that to this game, we've gone from hundreds of servers down to 5......people have spoken, they've just spoken with their wallets. BW have a history of ignoring most comments, and instead seeming focusing on clique groups,

That is why crafting is being targeted, and not the abusers, they've stopped the multiple items counting as one, but they've also nerfed crafting, so that small guilds can no longer use it as an effective means for participating in CQ. They've messed with pvp, fixed it that you have to WIN to get your points, and your CQ points, but in all PVP matches, only one team can win, and when you have ranked groups, or 'pros' queueing together, everyone one else is F*****, what other infinite repeatable have they removed, and which are still left.....GSF has infinite repeatable, and on top of that, you don't even have to win.

This is a fallacy , if you've ever worked in a decent restaurant, or retail, etc. One of the first things you should learn is that for every person that complained, 10/20 or more haven't, and instead have left the building and gone somewhere else.

 

You apply that to this game, we've gone from hundreds of servers down to 5......people have spoken, they've just spoken with their wallets.

The game is making more money now than it ever has in the past - fact.

The game is making more money now than it ever has in the past - fact.

Where's that fact, and is it counting profit now, as it has already made back the money put in to it. You can't compare then and now, as there are differences in circumstances.

EDIT : I'm not saying it's not, but I'd just love to see the figures, and what they actually take in to account.

What about the reverse? Do we have to ignore, using your own examples, the number of people that are completely satisfied with a product, and don't write a positive review? .

Actually it is different, as if people are happy, they are more likely to tell others, and return. The fact we have people here shows some are happy, but the population is no where near as big as it was, and it's also a lot more transient these days.

I never said we dropped because of crafting, get your facts right, or are you deliberately here to feed false facts and troll.

/snip

I quoted you, as you wrote it, word for word. If it's gone now, there is probably a reason, nothing to do with me.

And if you had spent any real time on the forums, you'd have realised I have no pull here, and have regularly got on the wrong sides of the mods.

EDIT: At this stage you seem bent on taking this thread off topic, so I'll stick you on ignore for a while, before jackie has to step in.

Where's that fact, and is it counting profit now, as it has already made back the money put in to it. You can't compare then and now, as there are differences in circumstances.

 

 

EDIT : I'm not saying it's not, but I'd just love to see the figures, and what they actually take in to account.

Here is an article from 2013 that claims that their monthly revenue DOUBLED when the game first went F2P.

https://www.pcgamer.com/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/

I'll find something more recent.

The game has now brought in more than $1 BILLION dollars of revenue.

Here is some more:

HOW MANY PEOPLE PLAY STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC?

We estimate that 510,327 people play per day, with a total player base of 8,953,108.

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor

Here is an article from 2013 that claims that their monthly revenue DOUBLED when the game first went F2P.

https://www.pcgamer.com/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/

 

That was 2013, and it has made the billion, we had a thread about this recently (well last year) But what I'd love to see if a break down of profit now, verse then, but taking in to account start up costs, etc. To get a rough idea of , if it's more profitable now, or then.

Also, just to note, I never said the game was dying, just in case anyone thought I had This started off, because I agreed with what the op said about the crafting issues

Here is some more:

HOW MANY PEOPLE PLAY STAR WARS: THE OLD REPUBLIC?

We estimate that 510,327 people play per day, with a total player base of 8,953,108.

https://mmo-population.com/r/swtor

It's great to see the numbers, even though it looks like a rollercoaster at times, but unfortunately it doesn't show subs versus F2P.

That was 2013, and it has made the billion, we had a thread about this recently (well last year) But what I'd love to see if a break down of profit now, verse then, but taking in to account start up costs, etc. To get a rough idea of , if it's more profitable now, or then.

Also, just to note, I never said the game was dying, just in case anyone thought I had This started off, because I agreed with what the op said about the crafting issues

 

 

 

It's great to see the numbers, even though it looks like a rollercoaster at times, but unfortunately it doesn't show subs versus F2P.

Why would it matter if you are a sub or not. Most money comes from the non-subs.

Why would it matter if you are a sub or not. Most money comes from the non-subs.

Is there proof of this? Can't understand why people think this, I mean who'd waste money buying CC's, when they can sub, get the free ones, and all the benefits, plus still buy more if needed.

Why would it matter if you are a sub or not. Most money comes from the non-subs.

I think it is most likely that the people who can afford a long term sub also can afford to buy large amounts of cartel coins. The people who can afford long term subs and large bundles of cartel coins can likely also afford multiple accounts.

It's possible that Bioware-Austin makes more money by nickel-and-diming everyone for little unlocks on those players' free or preferred characters, but it is more likely that the players with the money to burn on the cartel market know how to manage their finances as well.

Why would it matter if you are a sub or not. Most money comes from the non-subs.

Doubtful and I have never seen an official stat that backs up that claim.

What is likely true is that more revenue comes from the cash shop than subscription fees, but that in no way supports the conclusion that non-subs spend more money than subs.

I feel you man! There are so many things in SWTOR that frustrate me. Decisions made that I simply cannot fathom and fervently wish they would reverse or at least find a better balance. Conveniences that on their own and on paper look like amazing QoL improvements, but have trivialised aspects the game and robbed sense of accomplishment. Easy, quick, trivial does not equal a better overall game.

 

Yet despite all that, I still think it is one of the better MMORPG games out there and every time I branch out to WoW or ESO I find myself somehow coming back here.

 

It has flaws, but also many good things as well.

Was having this conversation the other day with friends, SWTOR is the best MMO pertaining story-mode, it really does a good job at letting a player go Solo and have fun while doing so, but if I'd go to evaluate SWTOR in comparison to other MMOs, I'd say it's a 8/10 on story 10/10 Solo content, everything else 3/10

PvP is subpar even to WoW (which's already pretty bad itself), customization is full MTS, tons of badly placed RNGs and walled content, not to mention old SUPER-WALLED content, like stuff from the Cartel xpac. Content walled by events that happen once a year, and some minor events that happen sometimes in a year, poor performance engine, bugs (countless bugs that were never fixed), support nearly non-existent, etc..... ... . ..

Overall we can safely say that SWTOR is an average MMO, but with a strong pull for more lonely players like me due to what it does best. And then each patch I get more surprised on how hellbent they are into ruining what was already bad, so idk, to me all rant about SWTOR is valid, still like what it offers on the positive side, but it's a on-off relationship curse to me, that's why I never sub for long periods of time, once my SW kick gets sated, there's no point on continuing playing due to all the bad design choices, and lack of love to the game by the devs.

, once my SW kick gets sated, there's no point on continuing playing due to all the bad design choices, and lack of love to the game by the devs.

My SW thirst is never sated I've been recommended other games, and tried them out, but I can't seem to kick the swtor habit....maybe we need an addicts group...lol