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Carnage/Combat: Nice but not enough.

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Sentinel / Marauder
Carnage/Combat: Nice but not enough.

Spasi's Avatar


Spasi
03.19.2020 , 05:21 PM | #1
So yeah carnage/combat finally for a buff. Yay. I am actually very happy for this and it seems like bioware actually acknowledges the spec's existence. However its not nearly enough. The spec needs a rework of some kind. The skill tree and utilities need to be changed in some way. The problem with the spec is that for a burst spec its burst isn't even that good and for a supposed PvP spec its really, really bad in pvp. Keep in mind these are my suggestions the community is welcome to correct me/add more.Anyways there are 5 things that this spec needs.
1: Doesn't matter what you do with it, never ever remove its speed. Its what makes the spec so fun.

2: Burst needs to be increased significantly. My main suggestion is to either make the tactical that makes clashing blast affected by Furious Power a utility(put it with something else) or just hard buff is as to where it isnt basically irrelevant cause fanged god is miles better.

3: Anti CC mechanics need to be added somehow to improve its pvp effectiveness. The issue with combat/carnage is that you can just spam it with cc and there is nothing to be done about it. Blood Ward is amazing but its a 3 min cd for 6s of resist. Not enough. I suggest a tactical item for this. something that gives us resist similar to fury. 6s every 30s

4: For a supposed "acrobatic" form that spec sure likes to stay in 1 place. Dashing set is a joke and you know it.

5: Finally, and this is a more general one, we need more options in tacticals and or sets. At the moment both mara and jugg have 1 set that's actually useful and i am 100% certain that wasn't your intention. As for tacticals the choice we have as combat/carnage are laughable. AoE blade rush has laughable aoe. Clashing blast tactical is meh at best. 50% perma armor pen is an interesting one but it isnt as good in practice. Only fanged god is good but it requires so much set up that you might as well not bother in pvp.

So yeah 2% on ataru strikes and 5% on clashing and blade rush is very nice but dont you think you can just bump that spec a bit and call it a day. It needs a lot of work. Probably a soft rework. Community is welcome to tell me how exactly i am a complete retard but honestly i strongly believe that even the ppl that hate marauders can agree that spec is f*cking sh*t.

vfreelancerv's Avatar


vfreelancerv
03.19.2020 , 06:29 PM | #2
Quote: Originally Posted by Spasi View Post
So yeah carnage/combat finally for a buff. Yay. I am actually very happy for this and it seems like bioware actually acknowledges the spec's existence. However its not nearly enough. The spec needs a rework of some kind. The skill tree and utilities need to be changed in some way. The problem with the spec is that for a burst spec its burst isn't even that good and for a supposed PvP spec its really, really bad in pvp. Keep in mind these are my suggestions the community is welcome to correct me/add more.Anyways there are 5 things that this spec needs.
1: Doesn't matter what you do with it, never ever remove its speed. Its what makes the spec so fun.

2: Burst needs to be increased significantly. My main suggestion is to either make the tactical that makes clashing blast affected by Furious Power a utility(put it with something else) or just hard buff is as to where it isnt basically irrelevant cause fanged god is miles better.

3: Anti CC mechanics need to be added somehow to improve its pvp effectiveness. The issue with combat/carnage is that you can just spam it with cc and there is nothing to be done about it. Blood Ward is amazing but its a 3 min cd for 6s of resist. Not enough. I suggest a tactical item for this. something that gives us resist similar to fury. 6s every 30s

4: For a supposed "acrobatic" form that spec sure likes to stay in 1 place. Dashing set is a joke and you know it.

5: Finally, and this is a more general one, we need more options in tacticals and or sets. At the moment both mara and jugg have 1 set that's actually useful and i am 100% certain that wasn't your intention. As for tacticals the choice we have as combat/carnage are laughable. AoE blade rush has laughable aoe. Clashing blast tactical is meh at best. 50% perma armor pen is an interesting one but it isnt as good in practice. Only fanged god is good but it requires so much set up that you might as well not bother in pvp.

So yeah 2% on ataru strikes and 5% on clashing and blade rush is very nice but dont you think you can just bump that spec a bit and call it a day. It needs a lot of work. Probably a soft rework. Community is welcome to tell me how exactly i am a complete retard but honestly i strongly believe that even the ppl that hate marauders can agree that spec is f*cking sh*t.
Thank you for breaking this down. The spec has alot to be desired, falls short of dps, and doesnt have many options in how to play it. In terms of performance, you have to use fanged god. The other tacs are a waste. Agreed the spec has lost its burst. Idea i was kicking around is even giving ataru as small DOT to help with aoe and single target dps. Sortof like bloody slashes. Sever should be restored to its previous bonus too. Would love to see the Prosecution make blast splash. Would like to see Malevolence buffed to atleast 75% armor pen. Tome of Unyielding blades needs to be rebuilt entirely.. Maybe make it so during berzerk, your sweeping slashes hit the targets twice. Not saying these are golden ideas, but maybe something can become of at least one of them! Hope something changes for Carnage, because the spec is very fun to play and had a high skill cap before.

TitusOfTides's Avatar


TitusOfTides
03.20.2020 , 12:29 PM | #3
It would be neat to see immunity while Precision is active.

Let Andeddu's Malevolence give something a little watered down if 100% uptime seems too scary.
There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?

alexzk's Avatar


alexzk
03.20.2020 , 02:45 PM | #4
fanged god -- only.
Masteries to provide defence/speed/heal.

You can just spam this 1 button and free cast transendence each 10-15s (mainly for raid wide 10% defence) and be top dps or close to it (at least 1 who takes agro from tank in whole OP). Also each hit heals you for around 2000 (mastery). Also Rebuke is near infinite, you have around 10s when it is not active.

With that one which resets camo on trans use u can be effective stealther - solo MM FP Cademimu in 38 mins with 302 gear/no set.

...about sets ...i think "victor" (which heals on kill) is good addition to all it. However, I didn't dig here too much. This one allows just move ahead in pve without stops.

Remember, dead dps does not do dps.
There is no ignorance - there is knowledge.

Ottoattack's Avatar


Ottoattack
03.22.2020 , 04:27 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by alexzk View Post
fanged god -- only.
Masteries to provide defence/speed/heal.

You can just spam this 1 button and free cast transendence each 10-15s (mainly for raid wide 10% defence) and be top dps or close to it (at least 1 who takes agro from tank in whole OP). Also each hit heals you for around 2000 (mastery). Also Rebuke is near infinite, you have around 10s when it is not active.

With that one which resets camo on trans use u can be effective stealther - solo MM FP Cademimu in 38 mins with 302 gear/no set.

...about sets ...i think "victor" (which heals on kill) is good addition to all it. However, I didn't dig here too much. This one allows just move ahead in pve without stops.

Remember, dead dps does not do dps.
So much garbage in here. First, this thread is about Carnage PvE dps. Not sure why you bring survivability (or gimmicky tactical that have no use in actual game play) into this. Also, none of what you mentioned is Carnage dependent. It applies to all marauder disciplines. So... potatoes?

OP, it will probably have been better if you posted this in the feedback in PTS. Here no dev will see it.

Scarab_'s Avatar


Scarab_
03.24.2020 , 01:09 PM | #6
My idea for CC immunity (and I'm trying to keep it simple here) is just to hook 6 secs of immunity into Berserk / Zen. I think it fits nicely mechanically and makes sense in terms of fiction too (you go Berserk, have increased alacrity, resist stuns, slows, movement fx etc).

For balancing purposes I think it should still be vulnerable to hard stuns (like Electrocute etc) otherwise you're just essentially giving Mara's a full white bar with every Berserk / Zen and I think that's overkill.

I also think it should be limited to once every 30 seconds (6 seconds of 30 like Fury) which occasionally might make for an interesting choice of whether to delay Berserk / Zen or not.

The biggest problem I see with this is it could give players the ability to cheese certain boss mechanics in PvE, which I am certain Bioware does not want. I don't know if there's a good way around that aspect of it but it would be a shame if not because we really do need some kind of CC resist in PvP -
- Pvp is just obnoxious at times without it.

The other biggest problem that's hurting us in PvP right now is the amount of white damage or weapon damage the Spec relies upon. If your benchmark is against dummies or Raid bosses that do not use defensive cooldowns like players do, you are always going to have false results because players use dcd's to effectively nullify all of our filler damage. If played right this spec can do damage in short, bursty chunks in ferocity windows, but our overall damage output and DPS is rather
low because our filler damage is so pitiful. During the massacre spam part of my rotation, I often feel like I'm just hitting the enemy with glowing fly swatters instead of lightsabers..

A quirky but possible solution to a slight buff in filler I thought of would be to make Ataru strikes have a constant armor penetration. The goal here is to give Mara / Sent a handful of anti kiting tools and buff to filler damage, not remove the player skill aspect of dealing with kiters and CC.
Jung Ma
---The Vala Legacy---
Scarin - Marauder : Lurai - (Corruption) Sorceress
Jesjar - (Shield Tech) Powertech : Sayla - Operative

TitusOfTides's Avatar


TitusOfTides
03.24.2020 , 01:53 PM | #7
It'd be nice to see one of the Carnage/Combat discipline perks add 100% armor pen to Ravage.

I'm gonna go all in right now and say that stun immunity during Ferocity/Precision and armor pen on Ravage/Blade Dance is what we need.
There has been an awakening. Have you felt it?

EnzoForMe's Avatar


EnzoForMe
04.12.2020 , 11:01 AM | #8
Carnage needs higher burst, and ideally some level of stun immunity (some ideas on that already mentioned here) to once again be viable in competitive ranked pvp.
Caprica, All-Galaxy Sniper & Gunslinger
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Kyrastorm's Avatar


Kyrastorm
05.06.2020 , 07:00 AM | #9
I mostly PvP.

However, this is just my overall opinion regarding Carnage currently being underpowered in general.

pre 6.0 I was hitting 70/80k Gore/Ataru regularly, and Devatating Blast was hitting 50k + regularly as well.

now, my largest hits seem to be in the mid 40k range. Still like Carnage, just hard to enjoy anything about it atm.

Fury has CC immunity, some nice tacticals, etc., but I don't like the playstyle/feel.

My Mara is pretty much shelved for the forseeable future until they fix, rework, or buff it a good bit more.

MagicTerror's Avatar


MagicTerror
05.07.2020 , 03:15 PM | #10
I agree completely with the complaints about Carnage and the associated sets and tacticals that go with it. For Bioware's assumed focus on Horizontal progression, they're really blowing it with making sets and tacticals where one is clearly BiS for the entire class; sure it's fine to have PvP and PvE specialized sets/classes/tacticals, but the greatest difference bonuses should have within those categories are tweaks to your rotation/timing to make the most of them, not just an obviously OP set compared to all the other gimmick ones. I returned to doing Carnage when 6.0 came out, only to see fleet chat a month or two after and apparently I should have stuck with Anni. I'm not doing prog on my Mara currently so I'm not too worried about it, but Carnage is one bit of a larger system where I feel I'm going to get class shamed for doing anything other than Anni-Descent-Spiteful Saber.

My Mara is currently using Fanged God plus Perfect Form for Carnage, even with the criticism it was my easiest set to acquire because of chance for the first few pieces first and I'm not going to buy into their credit sink of a whole other set, but the bonus for that set definitely needs a rework. So few situations in TOR are going to allow you to make the most out of the killing blow on one enemy, and even then it's only anywhere from 3 to 15% for a few seconds, nowhere near the flat boost that Descent's abilities will give you when executing them. If the devs care about making at least that set competitive with Descent, I can think of one way:

Boosting the damage increases is one thing, but Vicious Thirst really just needs a rework with an additional benefit. For example when placing the stacks on an enemy they should provide a debuff to the target's armor or even overall damage taken per stack, maybe equal to or a little less than the buff a Perfect Form Mara receives per stack transfer upon death now. The buff a Mara gets from killing the enemy should then be doubled. For instance a target with 5 stacks on them could take 10% more damage (2% per stack), and when the mara kills the enemy they gain 20% damage dealt (4% per stack). A little more precise calculation and it could actually compete with Descent's increases while hopefully not replacing it as BiS entirely.