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Too many Jugg/Guardian


worsin

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ROFL, its like it was yesterday when I read the threads about how everyone targets the juggs in the group, a team with a jugg was actually 3vs4, they died in seconds etc.

 

Look at it now! Slight fix in the abilities and people are clearing the dust from their juggs, gearing them up and quing for PVP again! I dont see this as a problem. The classes finally seem balanced (well, maybe PTs but still....).

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ROFL, its like it was yesterday when I read the threads about how everyone targets the juggs in the group, a team with a jugg was actually 3vs4, they died in seconds etc.

 

Look at it now! Slight fix in the abilities and people are clearing the dust from their juggs, gearing them up and quing for PVP again! I dont see this as a problem. The classes finally seem balanced (well, maybe PTs but still....).

 

I love jugg...I'm all for it being competitive, but when there are sooooo many of them it's not because people missed them its because they are overpowered.

 

Ive played since launch and I can see PvP is just broken in so many ways now...Juggs are just a side effect of that. The fixes to Shank tank or Skank tank or whatever you want to call it did nothing.

 

People openly admit in PvP chat that Health Stacked Jugg with shield etc is a cheesy setup because of this and therefore there are a million of them now.

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A. the "buff" to FD was no buff; it was a scaling that should have happened over a year and a half ago in nov 2016.

B. guardians still have no anti-focus or disengage; they can in fact still be bursted easily and despite FD

C. The "skank fix" did effectively nothing but piss people off because, it did not, in fact address skanking, but tank damage in general (stated that this was, in fact, the intention, however much we may disagree).

i. Thus, skanking remains the optimal tanking method since tank gear effectively does little to nothing, and dps gear

does in fact help damage

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All tanks I know swapped to Jugg tanks cause of the fix and the nerfs to the other tanks. I guess we will always have a FOTM class and people will tend to use those. On the other hand, there are people who do stick to their classes no matter what happens.
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I love jugg...I'm all for it being competitive, but when there are sooooo many of them it's not because people missed them its because they are overpowered.

 

Ive played since launch and I can see PvP is just broken in so many ways now...Juggs are just a side effect of that. The fixes to Shank tank or Skank tank or whatever you want to call it did nothing.

 

People openly admit in PvP chat that Health Stacked Jugg with shield etc is a cheesy setup because of this and therefore there are a million of them now.

 

LoL... LMAO... if you think DPS Juggs are OP, you need to L2P.... if you are discussing skanks... then you should make sure you say that in the title and emphasis it so people know you don’t mean dps Juggs.

It’s threads like this that end up making people call for the whole class to be nerfed. AND THEY ARENT HELPFULL.

 

I think you are just QQing because you see there are a lot in matches. You probably do t even know what spec half of them are. I see a lot of Sins and Operatives running together too. Usually there are more combined stealth classes in a match than Juggs or how about the 3 healers per match?

 

Even with the tiniest change to dps Juggs, they still aren’t considered worthy to be an arena/Ranked class. But they are balanced as best as Bioware are likely to get them for regs.

 

So please, we dont need people calling “Juggs” OP or asking for nerfs. If you want to QQ about skanks, there are have already been many threads made on this topic for 6-12 months. Try necroing one or change the title to “Too many Skanks”

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All tanks I know swapped to Jugg tanks cause of the fix and the nerfs to the other tanks. I guess we will always have a FOTM class and people will tend to use those. On the other hand, there are people who do stick to their classes no matter what happens.

 

If this was directed at me: i am no fair weather guardian. I've mained tank guardians since pre-2.0.

 

As of right now, there frankly is no point running a PT unless its just your favorite. They are worse that the other 2 in literally every way. If i cap all my denzions of guardians or juggies in conquest i go to a pt because its my second favorite tank class. But again, I'm no fair weather guardian.

 

Shadow is different, it can still function perfectly at its primary role of tanking. The 60% force speed thing is very nice.

 

Guardian wasnt touched as much as the others because we have been the worst aoe tanks for as long as i can rmember. VG has the boom boom, shadows 2 main abilities are aoe, guardians have... force sweep and guardian slash that requires setup.

 

These of course are primarily pve concerns because aoe threat is a pve concern.

 

If this comment was not directed at me: sorry. I havent seen any mass influx of tanks, but my pvp experience might not be the same as yours.

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Even with the tiniest change to dps Juggs, they still aren’t considered worthy to be an arena/Ranked class. But they are balanced as best as Bioware are likely to get them for regs.

 

I completely agree, but for some reason I am still seeing a tons of dps juggs in regs. We had a match yesterday with a total of 5 juggs :D

 

And the quality of who plays these juggs varies extremely. Some will do 50k damage and die after 230k damage taken, while others can do extremely much better.

 

Due to guard and taunts and aoe / dots, I might prefer 4 juggs to 4 maras.

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I'm not saying nurf Juggs. The answer could simply be to fix the other tank classes making them more appealing for pvp.

 

Right now it seems there are only 4-5 classes of 16 that are any good in PvP and everyone plays those for the most part...juggs especially, maybe jugg cause they are so easy to play and survive.

 

My point stands though when the majority of every match is Jugg something needs fixing.

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If this was directed at me: i am no fair weather guardian. I've mained tank guardians since pre-2.0.

 

As of right now, there frankly is no point running a PT unless its just your favorite. They are worse that the other 2 in literally every way. If i cap all my denzions of guardians or juggies in conquest i go to a pt because its my second favorite tank class. But again, I'm no fair weather guardian.

 

Shadow is different, it can still function perfectly at its primary role of tanking. The 60% force speed thing is very nice.

 

Guardian wasnt touched as much as the others because we have been the worst aoe tanks for as long as i can rmember. VG has the boom boom, shadows 2 main abilities are aoe, guardians have... force sweep and guardian slash that requires setup.

 

These of course are primarily pve concerns because aoe threat is a pve concern.

 

If this comment was not directed at me: sorry. I havent seen any mass influx of tanks, but my pvp experience might not be the same as yours.

 

You are mistaken, all tanks are viable. PT is worse only in defensives, damage is still huge if played well. People still run them in ranked with similar success as before.

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Let's face the facts here. When Warzones are 70% Jugg/Guardian there is a problem.

 

Well, love the made up statistic again :)

I think its 70% mercs, 68% snipers, 70% juggs, good 73% mara, not too mention that 50% are stealth or healers

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1) Make tank mods viable and necessary for PVP. Double or triple the amount of damage they can take, and nerf their own damage by the same factor. Make tanks actual tanks - a shocking concept.

 

2) Anyone running a tank spec with dps mods will take 20k damage from basic attacks and 200k damage from amush and tracer missiles. Furthermore, they will only do negative damage meaning they will increase the health of their target.

 

3) Give dps juggs a "please-dont-focus-me"-skill like merc reflect or bubble but totally unique and epic.

 

4) Give dps PTs 145 DCDs and they might become viable.

 

There, all fixed :D

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The only place where jugg isn't viable is in ranked...

 

In regs they are strong after getting another life from ED buff.

 

I agree with the regs part. I regularly see juggs with top damage, top protection, and they take forever to kill. I do not say it's bad, the paradigm ought to change sometimes and the apex classes ought to change too.

 

I played my mando healer a lot yesterday, and watched a jugg routinely head to the side node alone, and when facing two dps as I healed them fighting him he was mopping the floor with them.

 

Were they worse players than him? Probably. But the same jugg was even difficult to take down once more of the team came to wipe him off the side.

 

I have seen mercs do this, and snipers too. Against less skilled players, a class with strong DCDs in the hands of a good player really can make them seem immortal at times.

 

As for arenas I have no idea. In regs juggs are quite fine though. Mobile or not. They seem to be very sturdy right now and quite capable of dishing out loads of damage.

Edited by Lhancelot
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Nowhere did i say anything was not viable.

 

I said both other tanks were strictly better than PTs which is true.

 

I said dps juggies have a focus issue which is also true.

 

There is a substantial difference in being outclassed or having a massive issue with focus and being completely unviable.

Edited by KendraP
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KEK

 

It got all better guys but it wasn't a buff ;):D:rolleyes:

 

Fine don't take it from me

They scaled it back to where it was before the poor scaling with the level change in 5.0.

 

Or if we're calling it a buff that was a ninja nerf and this was them acknowledging their mistakes a year and a half late.

 

Either way guardian still has absolutely no ability to deal with focus and the rescaling of FD doesn't change that detail.

 

Without further ado:

Jedi Knight

Guardian

  • Focused Defense healing now scales better

 

From here:

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=947254

Edited by KendraP
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It literally takes twice the amount of damage to kill a Jugg now compared to pre-5.9.

 

I don't know if that is OP or not but a class without self heals like VG, Sentinel, Shadow will not be able to 1v1 a Jugg who knows what they are doing. Then again the same thing goes for Snipers and Mercs as well.

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It literally takes twice the amount of damage to kill a Jugg now compared to pre-5.9.

 

I don't know if that is OP or not but a class without self heals like VG, Sentinel, Shadow will not be able to 1v1 a Jugg who knows what they are doing. Then again the same thing goes for Snipers and Mercs as well.

 

I will grant you VG is undoubtedly worse. They need real DCD help.

 

Sins have a devoted escape in stealth out.

Maras have a disengage in force camo and better DCDs in any situation where both teams have a healer, in addition to being more mobile and having better damage and arguably better team compatability.

 

Merc and sniper both have ways of dealing with focus. Mercs reflect + self heals are strictly superior to anything provided by FD. Sniper i know the least about, but they are the bane of my existence as a vigi guardian. Sure they go down pretty quickly... if you can stay on them. And they, as a ranged cover based class, have more ways of keeping me away than i have of getting to them.

 

In no way are guardian dps anywhere in the same universe as mercs defensively (though we have better damage, being a melee class, a low mobility melee class at that).

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I'm seeing a lot of vigi/veng in regs lately. Most of them are well-geared and knowledgeable, which makes them murderous against the ungeared, ignorant masses.

 

They are the hardest of the 3 specs to master. So anyone that has mastered it will be more of a wreaking machine because of their skill vs less skilled people (which is a large percentage of the current population). #skillmatters.

If they aren’t skilled on vig/veng, they melt faster than medium skilled player on rage.

 

Also, this next point is one I’ve made many times when there are meta changes or announced ones like limiting tanks.

When things change and people start playing old specs that have been scarce in pvp, lots of people have zero idea how to counter them because they aren’t used to playing against them. Some people newer people and even older ones who have forgotten, will struggle significantly against these less common specs that make a resurgence, next thing we have nerf calls because people refuse to learn a new meta or figure out some tactics.

 

Mark my words. People will start calling for nerfs to some dps specs when tanks have to switch from skank tanking to real dps classes because their pops will slow if they don’t.

The nerf calls won’t be because the specs are OP, but because people don’t know how to deal with them and are too lazy to learn. It’s always easier to QQ for nerfs than learn.

 

Everyone better be prepared for an influx of dps Juggs, Sins and PTs (not as many) because most of those skank players will need to switch specs and there have been an over abundance of skank tanks in this meta.

Skank players won’t want to have to grind another Alt to Tier 4 CXP after spending all that time on getting their skank there. It will be easier to just switch specs.

 

Skilled players of those dps specs, who have been slumming it as skanks, will switch back to their harder to play specs and tear unsuspecting people apart.

This will end up looking like those class specs have become FOTM all of a sudden because there will be an influx of them in pvp. In reality, nothing will have changed because there won’t have been any changes to those classes from this meta. Essentially they will have an artificial FOTM status until people work out it’s false.

 

I predict you will see calls for nerfs and QQ about being FOTM. This will go on for months until people realise it’s a false assumption. Even then it won’t fully stop because people are to rigid in their thinking and refuse to adapt.

 

QQ for life. Nerf everything to win.

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