They are or at least will be when ppl are geared and remember fights. They are not supposed to be a faceroll with undergeared pugs.

I am refering to the 16 man mechanics that might be bugged, if not it surely needs tweaking.

The ops itself seems fine but the difference between 8 man and 16 man seems a bit odd at the moment.

16m SM Loot is still terrible anyways... why would someone signup for that even if they do clear the operation? I mean half as many people will get something.

More ultimate comms without farming the same faceroll ops we've been farming for up to nearly two years...

Story mode difficulty is fine if your group consists mostly of people who had HM & NiM on the farm in the previous tier.

In other words it's not fine.

Story mode difficulty is fine if your group consists mostly of people who had HM & NiM on the farm in the previous tier.

In other words it's not fine.

Nah, plenty of people clearing SM Ravagers/ToS who don't have 5/5 HM DP or any NiM DF/DP.

Nah, plenty of people clearing SM Ravagers/ToS who don't have 5/5 HM DP or any NiM DF/DP.

Not 16 man.

The new Ops are just too hard!

after you got some routine, sm is fairly easy. just run through both instances with our 186 comm geared alts (4 mdds) and just one shot every boss without any problem.

after you got some routine, sm is fairly easy. just run through both instances with our 186 comm geared alts (4 mdds) and just one shot every boss without any problem.

8man. Go in 16 man (which is SUPPOUSED to be easier per Bioware's explanation behind 16m group finder). Not to mention TOS bugs on all modes

I am sure there are plenty of raid teams and even some PUGs that can clear these without batting a lash... but that doesn't seem to be the norm. The Ops and frankly even one of the HM FPs are giving well geared PUGs and even some raid teams problems. BLUF: its not fun to beat your head against a wall on STORY MODE anything.

I am really disappointed in the ops and FPs in this update. Bioware what made you think this was the way to go?

Bah the correct tac for tython is for each member of group to take one of adds place orbital there move out, kill add by order, assign targets quit the ****** whine and play.

The real problem with 16mode is absurd drop in performance of server hence all the wipes im quite sure it can be cleared even with unbalanced dmg however with the fps drop you couldnt kill trash... Which is precisy what happens.

I am really disappointed in the ops and FPs in this update. Bioware what made you think this was the way to go?

there was a pretty large exodus from the game after DF/DP came out last October because they were cleared so easily (even HM) by many guilds and there was no new operation in sight. Perhaps they felt slightly more difficult encounters would provide a longer lasting endgame PvE experience than face roll easy content.

Only they know if more people leave the game for content being too easy, vs too hard.

Did Rav SM again this week with half the group 'very well geared', and it was a breeze.

Bulo used to be hell for me as a healer but this time I just need to self heal while tank is grabbing adds aggro and then casually throw a few heals around

Torque was down in 1:30, almost tank and spank outside of fire on the floor (5 dps 1 tank)

Master n blaster was slightly harder but its just tank taking more damage

last boss we didnt do coz... they are 'very well geared' and didnt want to waste time on that

and that was 25 minutes for the first 4 bosses, we were on mumble but only had a few banter and discussion about what they parsed

so with people overgeared and know what to do (mostly, not stand in stupid) its actually quite easy to clear the op

there was a pretty large exodus from the game after DF/DP came out last October because they were cleared so easily (even HM) by many guilds and there was no new operation in sight. Perhaps they felt slightly more difficult encounters would provide a longer lasting endgame PvE experience than face roll easy content.

 

Only they know if more people leave the game for content being too easy, vs too hard.

I felt that SM DF/DP was slightly undertuned, but that HM Nefra (1st boss is usually easy-ish), HM Raptus, and HM Council were tuned fine (3/10 isn't super positive I'll admit, but EV/KP is how I define "too easy").

I don't think we've wiped on ANY SM 8 man Ravagers bosses we had a REALLY messy kill on boss 2. I'd actually say that 8 Man SM Ravagers is slightly UNDERtuned. SM ToS seems tuned properly though , Revan seemed easier than the Walkers and Underlurker (SM Revan might need a *slight* dps buff on 8 man).

Overall, I wouldn't say that 16 man is too hard, but that 8 man is too easy. There is an obvious gap, but it could be fixed by buffing 8 man a bit and maybe, slightly nerfing 16 man (not by much, just the 2nd boss on Ravagers and 3rd boss in ToS).

uuh o new ops aint hard easy just take brain

and they just mellee unfriendly

I agree with OP, but title is misleading.

IMO its not the ops that are the problem. Its what you wrote in your second (or third) paragraph. The game doesn't encourage people to learn mechanics.

The entire solo game up to level 55 or 60 rarely does much to punish standing in red circles. The fastest exp in the game (KDY) only lightly touches on the concept of "bad cirlces on floor" with bosses like khoris or the droid. And people rarely join FP's (which have some elements of mechanics) because kdy is a faster pop with more exp.

There should be missions within the story which are like Oricon missions. The boss at the bottom of the map, if you aren't overgeared you will need to manage stuns and CC's to beat it. The boss at the top of the map, if you aren't overgeared you will need to interrupt. The final boss in the tower, if your not overgeared you will need to prioritise interrupts (1 of his 3 channels does a lot more damage than the other 2), time cleanses (remove the armour debuff) and fit all that around doing some damage to the guy.

Sadly even putting missions like that in the main story wont help. When was the last time you saw someone climbing the tower solo, they all go in groups to cheese it. When was the last time you landed on Oricon not to instantly see "need help with <boss name> please"

You can try and force people to learn, but they will just group up and continue to cheese it. Only solution is to have patience with the PUG's and explain mechanics multiple times.

I don't think we should be blaming the ops for this, but like you said blaming PUG's is no good either. None of us switched the game on the first time, ran out into the starting planet (or coruscant/DK, once you get some abilities) and were throwing around stuns, interrupts and CC's like a NiM ops runner. I learnt about these things in FP's, because the story never makes you do them. If other people don't like FP's they will find themselves thrown in at the deep end at 60.

I agree with OP, but title is misleading.

 

IMO its not the ops that are the problem. Its what you wrote in your second (or third) paragraph. The game doesn't encourage people to learn mechanics.

 

The entire solo game up to level 55 or 60 rarely does much to punish standing in red circles. The fastest exp in the game (KDY) only lightly touches on the concept of "bad cirlces on floor" with bosses like khoris or the droid. And people rarely join FP's (which have some elements of mechanics) because kdy is a faster pop with more exp.

 

There should be missions within the story which are like Oricon missions. The boss at the bottom of the map, if you aren't overgeared you will need to manage stuns and CC's to beat it. The boss at the top of the map, if you aren't overgeared you will need to interrupt. The final boss in the tower, if your not overgeared you will need to prioritise interrupts (1 of his 3 channels does a lot more damage than the other 2), time cleanses (remove the armour debuff) and fit all that around doing some damage to the guy.

 

Sadly even putting missions like that in the main story wont help. When was the last time you saw someone climbing the tower solo, they all go in groups to cheese it. When was the last time you landed on Oricon not to instantly see "need help with <boss name> please"

 

You can try and force people to learn, but they will just group up and continue to cheese it. Only solution is to have patience with the PUG's and explain mechanics multiple times.

 

I don't think we should be blaming the ops for this, but like you said blaming PUG's is no good either. None of us switched the game on the first time, ran out into the starting planet (or coruscant/DK, once you get some abilities) and were throwing around stuns, interrupts and CC's like a NiM ops runner. I learnt about these things in FP's, because the story never makes you do them. If other people don't like FP's they will find themselves thrown in at the deep end at 60.

Agreed 100%!

When 3.0 first came out, I got to run Ravagers on 16M the 1st week. It was a brutal after doing EV/KP/EC @ 55 and getting away with bad placement, high endurance, and cheesing mechanics. Needing to use interrupts, DCD's and at the right time. Well not until that first insta-death on pre nerf Bulo did I remember what those keys were for.

I didn't get the feeling that in 3.0 TFP's or even HMFP's were part of progression. With the solo mode option it didn't seem as necessary to take time on the FP's, where to stand, what not to stand in. Jesus bot did all work and I just mashed buttons. With the solo mode though it removed an important part into learning sm raid mechanics. Basic movement and placement. When to use interrupts and Cooldowns. Kiting and killing adds is another one that gets overlooked on some pugs.

Its going to be interesting in the coming weeks with scaled raids, no more face rolling. As is I still see people wiping on Brontes, before the clock phase. Nerf SOA threads will make a return shortly after launch, and healing Dread Council on burn phase will be a challenge once again at level. I look forward to all of these, but have been lucky enough to pug each one every week to practice my needed skills and keep them up.