I have a synthweaver alt on The Progenitor who for the last 7 or 8 weeks has been running back-to-back UWT missions with the goal of getting all of the custom armour schematics.

Last night was a bit of a milestone as I finally acquired the last of the "1.2" schematics (i.e. chest, legs and head) when I spotted an Anointed Demicot Headgear schematic on the GTN for just 2500 credits. I now have 223 out of the 265 available: so only 42 of the "1.3" schematics (i.e. hands, feet, waist and wrists) to go. Admittedly my joy was tempered because it has taken me a lot longer to reach that milestone than it could have and it has been rather boring grind. The reason for this is that I have chosen not to pay the inflated prices that the resellers (i.e. the players who simply buy low and sell high) are charging and consequently I have to wait a little longer to catch the bargains.

Nonetheless I still find myself unintentionally contributing to the resellers profits and that irritates me a bit.

Over the course of the last couple of months I've acquired dozens of doubles and although I've tried to sell them at a reasonable price my fellow crafters now rarely benefit from my prices. Invariably the resellers simply bought up all the rarer ones and reposted them at grossly inflated amounts which has the effect of driving up the prices for everyone. For example, I've even found myself posting schematics at a higher price than I previously would in an attempt to dissuade the resellers from buying up my schematics (by attempting to reduce their profit) and hopefully letting crafters obtain them for a bit less than the reseller's price gouging.

However this too came to a head last night when someone who I knew to be a crafter bought one of these overpriced schematics: I felt so bad about overcharging him I mailed him back half the credits (RPing it as a glitch in the matrix). Afterwards I began thinking about tactics crafters could use to beat the resellers. Obviously my inadvertent overpricing and refund approach could work but you'd have to maintain a blacklist of resellers. Alternatively as The Progenitor is an RP server crafters could meet up periodically for a schematic exchange to barter or sell schematics. However I suspect there are other (better) ideas out there.

So if resellers are driving up the prices of crafting schematics on your server how would you tackle it?

Before it happens, I'm sure there are a dozen or so people who will respond with "It's capitalism, stupid, deal with it" or something to that effect. Trolls gotta troll.

Your ideas sound cool for an RP server. The biggest problem with developing a community of crafters on a SWTOR server is that crafting is so vanilla in this game. Everyone produces items of precisely the same quality. No one can distinguish themselves from anyone else by producing quality goods that would be in demand. Maybe on an RP server you can find enough people who care enough about crafting and would see banding together to achieve these sorts of goals as a cool RP thing to do. On a non-RP server, I doubt there are enough people to care.

I do understand where you are coming from, though. Personally, I've got 292 of the 294 possible augment schematics. Two more to go....

Your ideas sound cool for an RP server. The biggest problem with developing a community of crafters on a SWTOR server is that crafting is so vanilla in this game. Everyone produces items of precisely the same quality. No one can distinguish themselves from anyone else by producing quality goods that would be in demand. Maybe on an RP server you can find enough people who care enough about crafting and would see banding together to achieve these sorts of goals as a cool RP thing to do. On a non-RP server, I doubt there are enough people to care.

I suspect you are right. I also suspect that until BioWare implements some of the ideas from your p=0.000056 thread (or something akin to those ideas) to mitigate the impact of the RNG and to add some variation then crafting will remain rather bland, frustrating and something that can only be enjoyed (or rather endured) by those of us with strong masochistic tendencies!

On a side note as a result of your thread I've just started playing LOTRO to see what their crafting system is like.

I do understand where you are coming from, though. Personally, I've got 292 of the 294 possible augment schematics. Two more to go....

Oo ... I'm so jealous right now!

I also have a Synthweaver on The Progenitor and have noticed that some of the schematics have been selling at very high prices. However, because I never sell schematics myself (I prefer to keep them in case any of my friends or guildies want them), I had no idea that some of these people were resellers rather than people running missions themselves. Thanks for the heads-up!

Your idea sounds great. Maybe we could come together in some way to share schematics at reasonable prices. I'd certainly be interested in pooling knowledge, particularly with a kindred spirit who also has "gotta catch 'em all" fever when it comes to schematics! (For the record, I got my final two 1.2 schematics about a week before 1.3 came out. )

Most schematics I've seen sell for less than the suggest price. Most people sell the rarer ones at the suggested price, not knowing how much they can get for it. So I don't think this is a problem. I also don't think it's a "problem" in that if the schematics are selling at the higher price then just as many crafters are getting them as they would otherwise. What's the big deal? Credits are not hard to come by in this game. If they really really want the schems for cheap they could also monitor the listings just like the resellers do, you know.

If you want to start a charity then, as you said, sell them at the higher prices yourself and then message the buyers and send them the credits you felt you shouldn't have charged them. A blacklist isn't necessary since the resellers won't buy your schems unless a non-negligible profit can be made.

Your idea sounds great. Maybe we could come together in some way to share schematics at reasonable prices. I'd certainly be interested in pooling knowledge, particularly with a kindred spirit who also has "gotta catch 'em all" fever when it comes to schematics!

I was thinking (for our server at least) it might be worth broaching the subject on http://www.swtor-rp.com/progenitor (I've been meaning to get a bit more involved anyway) but I'll drop you a PM with my sythnweaver's name in case you want to, for example, meet up on the Fleet.

Incidentally I bumped into the guy I mentioned in my first post again last night. He was rather confused by the refund so I explained and he agreed the prices were getting a bit out of hand. Like us he is trying to get the last of the 1.3 schematics so we started comparing the schemas cluttering up our bags/banks and ended up swapping three each (bracer, belt and boots for him and bracer, two pairs of boots for me). We were both happy and the resellers didn't get a sniff of the action: flawless victory!

However I was wondering if this approach would work at something like a crafter's event. Would people be happy swapping or would they prefer to buy/sell or do both? Would there have to be established guidelines that determines what schematics are roughly equivalent or do people just haggle it out on the day? What would be a good way to let people see what you have available? Google docs, sky drive, etc.? Listed on GTN at +100k for the duration of the event? Would people to prefer an old fashioned auction with an auctioneer, bidding, reserves, etc.

I really don't understand how you can think that the "reasonable" price is some price you make up in your head, while the price that people are willing to pay is somehow overinflated. All the explanation you need is right in your initial post: You spent 7-8 weeks doing back-to-back UWT missions and STILL didn't get these schematics. For me, my time is worth more than that - I would never spend my time that way. I would happily pay a high price to avoid having to grind those missions. For you, obviously, you would rather give up the time and keep the money.

So it's simple: if you value the money more than the time, do the UWT missions. If you value the time more than the money, pay the reseller. You charging less for it doesn't change the inherent rarity - and hence value - of the item.

Man the worst failure of our education system, by a longshot, is the failure to teach even basic principles of economics.

While I don't resell in any way in this game, my opinion is it's a viable playstyle to be a trader. (Instead I take pride in my high quality ship and droid equipment and well, it happens, people suggest I overprice, usually if they want me to cut them a deal. )

Sorry to disagree with you here. I also think, "blacklisting" anyone or suggesting trading on the market makes a person greedy of sorts isn't exactly a good thing for the atmosphere on our server either.

I did trade in other games, and it's actually quite fun and also time intensive as you have to check the market regularily and spend a lot of time updating your postings on the market.

It's what some people enjoy as you enjoy collecting schematics. (Another experience maybe, a lot of the hardcore traders I met in games are quite mature and friendly players, that give you very good deals, if approached personally and friendly.)

And it's surely more interesting than grinding dailies to make ingame money (which is not very meaningful in itself, what do you get for it...mostly luxury stuff, like legacy perks...)

Imho in the Old Republic it doesn't affect the market a whole lot, as you're limited to 50 items anyways which is not a big margin for controlling even a niche market, let alone schematics.

A very easy way to not support resellers is to sell on the trade channel by the way. Easy, but well, takes some extra effort.

I absolutely like the idea of organizing a "crafter's fair" to exchange schematics and RP a bit. If you need support for it, say hello ingame or contact us at our ingame channel (/cjoin Void).

I guess I fall into the "its capitalism" trolls category, although with the schematics market as large as it is its actually simple economics.

The market is overpriced on its own, when it's that large it no small group of people are "controlling it", it's buyers and sellers causing it to find its median. So long as people are willing to buy at that high price it will remain the same; by actively trying to fight it you've seen how impossible it is to change all buyers and sellers to what YOU think is fair. By pricing yourself low you're just offering huge deals to some lucky buyer. Resellers are just taking advantage of the deal.

I don't do it with schems but I resell in other markets if I see a good deal. People think it's cheating but it's not; that underpriced item is on the market regardless, first person to jump on it will save thousands. Why can't I get in on that savings? Just because I paid full price before I'm not allowed to take advantage of a deal now?

And when we do resell we're going out on a limb. If we can't resell that item for more than we paid we may end up losing money. It's not like it can be resold at much higher than market value, if we can't move it then we just lost money buying an item we can't use.

tl;dr- Don't hate on bargain hunters buying the items you undervalued.

The schematic exchange idea should be taken to the forum boards.

It sounds like a generally good idea to me.

Set up a regular weekly start time (some time where you know you will be available for the first few weeks, anyway, since it may take some time to get some traction).

Make it a public place, where other people will see you.

Have everyone switch to public chat, so passers-by can also hear you.

A word of caution, though:

If such an exchange existed on my server, I might be willing to trade higher value schematics for lower value schematics (I would trade you a belt or bracers in exchange for a chest or legs, for example) with the understanding that I would be on the good side of those deals when you found them, too.

But how do I know that there aren't people showing up just looking for someone willing to 'help them out' with a rare schematic in exchange for a junk schematic, only for those people to then send that rare schematic to an alt for listing on the GTN?

So yeah, I would be willing to save up schematics for a while and then show up with them to trade, but I would be hesitant to make some trades.

I am not averse to posting schematics on the GTN, and I would rather make that profit myself then trade it away to a con man.

My thoughts seem to echo the #7 post.

When I craft items that I can no longer use i.e. I made 3 of something I RE the first and I get the schem on the first try the other 2 are either RE for mats or hit the GTN.

I use the GTN and I always mark hundreds and a few times 2 or 3 grand BELOW what the GTN tells me, I sorta go by what will the vendor give and what can I get on the GTN, then I make a price decision based on the 2 facts I have.

My stuff sells 90% time, few and far between that I dont get a sale with the 2 day window, usually the stuff that doesnt sell are blue drops.

The above also goes for schems I get thru UWT or any mission drop etc., if none of my other alts (7) can use it, GTN it with the same logic process from above.

Sure I could triple maybe double my sell price but why, Im not that greedy.

It all comes down to one human's choice and that my dear friend is something that will not be changed.

I really don't understand how you can think that the "reasonable" price is some price you make up in your head, while the price that people are willing to pay is somehow overinflated. All the explanation you need is right in your initial post: You spent 7-8 weeks doing back-to-back UWT missions and STILL didn't get these schematics. For me, my time is worth more than that - I would never spend my time that way. I would happily pay a high price to avoid having to grind those missions. For you, obviously, you would rather give up the time and keep the money.

 

So it's simple: if you value the money more than the time, do the UWT missions. If you value the time more than the money, pay the reseller. You charging less for it doesn't change the inherent rarity - and hence value - of the item.

 

Man the worst failure of our education system, by a longshot, is the failure to teach even basic principles of economics.

I have to agree with this post. A couple weeks ago I got an orange belt schematic from UWT that I already knew. I listed it on the GTN at 75k and it sold within an hour. According to the OP, I should have listed it for a couple credits to help out my other crafters?

I really don't understand how you can think that the "reasonable" price is some price you make up in your head, while the price that people are willing to pay is somehow overinflated. All the explanation you need is right in your initial post: You spent 7-8 weeks doing back-to-back UWT missions and STILL didn't get these schematics. For me, my time is worth more than that - I would never spend my time that way. I would happily pay a high price to avoid having to grind those missions. For you, obviously, you would rather give up the time and keep the money.

 

So it's simple: if you value the money more than the time, do the UWT missions. If you value the time more than the money, pay the reseller. You charging less for it doesn't change the inherent rarity - and hence value - of the item.

 

Man the worst failure of our education system, by a longshot, is the failure to teach even basic principles of economics.

Agree on all points. Who defines a "reasonable" price? The buyer. Not you, not me.

If I list an Exotech stim for 27K, and it sells, then that price was reasonable to someone.

If I list a grade 12 mod for 12k, and it sells, then it was reasonable to someone.

Could I sell both of those items for less, and still profit? Sure, but why? To be nice? This is business, not charity. You want a deal, join a guild, or get the items yourself.

Would I buy either of those items at that price? No, but that's because I can craft one, and get the other for next to nothing from a guild mate.

Just because YOU wouldn't pay that price doesn't mean someone else won't. Getting into a turf war on the GTN won't change that. You'll get tired of it, and/or I'll move on to another segment of the market. In the end, I'm still a multi-millionaire.

I have to agree with this post. A couple weeks ago I got an orange belt schematic from UWT that I already knew. I listed it on the GTN at 75k and it sold within an hour. According to the OP, I should have listed it for a couple credits to help out my other crafters?

That's not what the OP was saying. The OP was saying that if, for instance, you listed your schematic at 75k, that he would prefer it to be bought by another crafter than for a reseller to buy it and put it up at, say, 150k or 200k.

Of course, the argument can be made that anything that sells has a price that is reasonable to someone. I would amend that to "acceptable" price, though, as I might find the price totally unreasonable but still be willing to pay it if I've been looking for that schematic for months. If I want to keep looking, I can keep looking. If I want it now, then I accept paying the price. Personally, I tend to just buy the expensive schematic. My time is worth more than that. But I'm an established crafter, so I can afford to do that. What about someone just starting off? Reselling schematics is far more unfair to them than to anyone else.

The thing is, for anyone to truly control a market, they need to have a big pool of credits already. Otherwise they can't afford to buy everything to resell it at the higher price. So what is the point of gouging prices in this way, if you are already rich? You already have piles of money and you don't seem to need to do anything else with it; what's the point of an even bigger pile? I know what I enjoy in crafting: making a wide range of items available to my server at a fair price. What do resellers get out of it?

Most schematics that I get, that I don't already have, I try to sell for 5k (each). There are a few exceptions.

it's a (400) schematic. Those I vendor trash unless it's one of the really rare ones (belt/bracer) because EVERYONE sells them and the market is flooded with them. I've even seen them priced on the GTN for 300 credits, which means I can buy those, sell to the vendor, and still make a tiny profit.

it's a lower level schematic (under ~120ish on the skill level requirement to craft it). Some of these are 'hotter' than others and therefore worth more. Also, fewer people running low level UWT missions means they're rare®. So the price goes up. If it happens to be one of the lower level schematics that isn't class restricted...price goes up a tad because it's more useful.

This is what I WAS doing before the recent server 'merges'

Now that we're all on "super-servers" and the population is much higher, there are more schematics available (on Shadowlands at any rate) and it seems to be far more difficult to sell schematics even at 5k each.