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Conquest as a game feature will die for all but the largest guilds


xordevoreaux

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Once the largest mega-guilds from the 5 east coast us servers converge onto one conquest board, all other guilds can give up on getting onto the boards for the rest of the life of the game.

 

If you're in a guild that can pull about 2 to 8 m a week on a conquest board, and wind up still there at the end of the week, it's over for you. We're talking about guilds in excess of pulling down 100m a week on the conquest boards competing with one another.

 

The rest of us will just watch from the sidelines, knowing we can't even hope to get to 10th place on any of the boards no matter which conquest it is or how many planets are out there.

It's over for us.

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The loss felt obviously won't be by the tiny tiny guilds that can't muster the points, ever. It's those that are in the running on more or less a regular basis now, getting on the boards, even if it means squeaking by in 10th place, that will just have to stop. Edited by xordevoreaux
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Max guild size is 1k characters. With several of them that is a lmiter; they can't get "much" bigger than they currently are.

 

Did I ever mention their growth as a factor? It's that in their current state, the combination of all those mega guilds on the conquest boards, the big bulls in the bull pen, capable of what they're able to do right now in conquest, spells the end for the rest of us for conquest.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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Did I ever mention their growth as a factor? It's that in their current state, the combination of all those mega guilds on the conquest boards, the big bulls in the bull pen, capable of what they're able to do right now in conquest, spells the end for the rest of us for conquest.

 

There are going to be more people running around and looking for guilds: get bigger yourself. There's a cap that means you can catch up if that's your thing.

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Shortly after the introduction of strongholds and flagships, over three years ago, I had set out to begin unlocking the ship for my tiny, tiny guild. It has a few members that show their face a few times per year, but for the most part it was just two of us.

 

With buying frameworks from gtn, with crafting the encryptions directly and with earning them via conquest, we did our best to get that ship done with just two people working at it, and the occasional help once or twice a year.

 

For the first two years, I really needed my partner to get onto the board, but as server population dropped, this last year I'd been able to hit the board solo on certain weeks, without too much trouble. Is that a realistic thing to strive for? Maybe not, but I am terribly relieved that as of last month we're done, because yeah, there'd be absolutely no way to fight for the board again with one or two players, soon.

 

Conquest is not for most small guilds, it's certainly not for every large guild either, but on many servers you could do things without a large guild if you wanted to and planned for it. That certainly won't be the case anymore.

 

The announcement calls it "more fierce competition". I guess. It will become a lot less inclusive, though.

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How about the devs making conquest more equitable?

 

What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

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What do you propose that wouldn't inadvertently punish a big guild for simply being big while still somehow being equitable on a player level? If you actually stop and think about the problem and the various angles I'm sure you'll see there is no simple solution.

 

Leagues. Big boys in the big league, with their own conquest goals, midleagers in theirs, etc.

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Leagues. Big boys in the big league, with their own conquest goals, midleagers in theirs, etc.

 

How would you determine them, a large guild could be like mine where everyone keeps all their alts in the guild but really there's only 20-30 players? Because there are account limited conquest objectives and repeatable objectives and that has a major impact if a casual alt friendly guild gets thrown into the big boy bracket simply because they let everyone keep their alts in the guild.

 

Edit: Gotta run out a bit right now, but I certainly want to continue this conversation because I believe conquest does need to be worked on if it is to be a system for everyone, or at least BW make it known that their design goals for conquest was only for large guilds. I just don't see any easy solution that doesn't have some drawbacks negatively impacting some portion of the player base adversely.

Edited by Draqsko
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I feel like the majority of the small guilds players already have alts in the bigger conquest guilds, and that is partly why they win already. That said, I don't see a reason why Bioware should readjust towards smaller guilds, these contain fewer players than the bigger guilds and changes should be made while looking at the bigger picture. Sure it sucks for some of the small guilds that they might not be able to win Iokath when it's the only planet available, however, when there are multiple planets there is nothing stopping small guilds.

 

Another approach is what was recently attempted on TRE, as the larger guilds win Iokath (for example) a main "Imperial Conquest Guild" and a "Republic Conquest Guild" could be created to help more people from smaller guilds participate and make it more of a server event. That said, that means guilds need to cooperate and that the big conquest guilds join in on the effort as well as a few people organizing things, and I guess most prefer to just complain on the forums instead of trying to find solutions.

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How would you determine them, a large guild could be like mine where everyone keeps all their alts in the guild but really there's only 20-30 players? Because there are account limited conquest objectives and repeatable objectives and that has a major impact if a casual alt friendly guild gets thrown into the big boy bracket simply because they let everyone keep their alts in the guild.

 

Every week, at the beginning of conquest 8am Tuesday EST, everyone is in the little league.

Soon as a guild hits 10 million points, that guild leaves the little league board and must compete on the mid league.

When a guild hits 20 million points, that guild leaves the midleague board and competes on the big league board.

 

Ego will drive the mega guilds to the biggest league they can get into, and reaching the next league, both mid and big, has a conquest reward of its own.

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Once the largest mega-guilds from the 5 east coast us servers converge onto one conquest board, all other guilds can give up on getting onto the boards for the rest of the life of the game.

 

If you're in a guild that can pull about 2 to 8 m a week on a conquest board, and wind up still there at the end of the week, it's over for you. We're talking about guilds in excess of pulling down 100m a week on the conquest boards competing with one another.

 

The rest of us will just watch from the sidelines, knowing we can't even hope to get to 10th place on any of the boards no matter which conquest it is or how many planets are out there.

It's over for us.

 

From the roadmap...

 

A Look Ahead to Early 2018

 

And, just a few tidbits about what’s right around the corner:

 

The conclusion to this chapter of the story is coming where the Traitor reveals his true plan once and for all via a new Flashpoint

The final bosses and details about Master Mode for Gods from the Machine Operation

An upgraded Conquest system and new Daily Activity system with great rewards

More multiplayer gameplay experiences for both PvP and PvE

 

Imagine that... BW already mentioned it before you created a thread.

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From the roadmap...

 

A Look Ahead to Early 2018

 

And, just a few tidbits about what’s right around the corner:

 

The conclusion to this chapter of the story is coming where the Traitor reveals his true plan once and for all via a new Flashpoint

The final bosses and details about Master Mode for Gods from the Machine Operation

An upgraded Conquest system and new Daily Activity system with great rewards

More multiplayer gameplay experiences for both PvP and PvE

 

Imagine that... BW already mentioned it before you created a thread.

 

Tsillah, upgraded does not promise equitable.

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From the roadmap...

 

A Look Ahead to Early 2018

 

And, just a few tidbits about what’s right around the corner:

 

The conclusion to this chapter of the story is coming where the Traitor reveals his true plan once and for all via a new Flashpoint

The final bosses and details about Master Mode for Gods from the Machine Operation

An upgraded Conquest system and new Daily Activity system with great rewards

More multiplayer gameplay experiences for both PvP and PvE

 

Imagine that... BW already mentioned it before you created a thread.

 

From the announcement FAQ:

 

"Why Make the Change?

Bringing players together as United Forces in larger numbers offers multiple benefits to players, [...] server-wide activities, such as Conquests, will have more fierce competition than ever before."

 

It is both intended and presented as a feature. That does not at all seem compatible with anything other than very large guilds dominating the boards.

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Every week, at the beginning of conquest 8am Tuesday EST, everyone is in the little league.

Soon as a guild hits 10 million points, that guild leaves the little league board and must compete on the mid league.

When a guild hits 20 million points, that guild leaves the midleague board and competes on the big league board.

 

Ego will drive the mega guilds to the biggest league they can get into, and reaching the next league, both mid and big, has a conquest reward of its own.

 

Oh cool, forum server is getting faster response times than I remember, ignore the edit above.

 

That's a good start but I'm sure there will be times that guilds abuse it by not pushing to their limit but seeking to simply take a lower bracket through much less effort and denying people that are actually working hard.

 

Perhaps put in a limitation where if you place first (or top 3 places) on a board, you start on that board the next week and only get dropped down a board if you fail to place in the top 10, requiring repeated no shows to work your way down to the bottom. This way big guilds wouldn't be able to step down the ladder as easily as they can step up and stifle competition in the lower brackets.

Edited by Draqsko
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Oh cool, forum server is getting faster response times than I remember, ignore the edit above.

 

That's a good start but I'm sure there will be times that guilds abuse it by not pushing to their limit but seeking to simply take a lower bracket through much less effort and denying people that are actually working hard.

 

Perhaps put in a limitation where if you place first on a board, you start on that board the next week and only get dropped down a board if you fail to place in the top 10, requiring repeated no shows to work your way down to the bottom. This way big guilds wouldn't be able to step down the ladder as easily as they can step up and stifle competition in the lower brackets.

 

I thought about that -- guilds hedging their bets and not wanting to get pushed by their own score into the next league -- but then they're playing a cat-and-mouse game with the other 9 guilds in that league not to get bumped off completely while not going over. That's very hard to control across all of a guild's members. But your point is taken.

Edited by xordevoreaux
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Tsillah, upgraded does not promise equitable.

That is a correct statement but since you don't know what this upgrade will mean, it's a useless point to make. They are going to tackle Conquest in 2018. Right now they're in the middle of preparing for a big server merge.

 

I just think this thread is ill-timed, that's all.

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That is a correct statement but since you don't know what this upgrade will mean, it's a useless point to make. They are going to tackle Conquest in 2018. Right now they're in the middle of preparing for a big server merge.

 

I just think this thread is ill-timed, that's all.

 

I'll maintain the position that less-than-mega guilds will experience profound dismay after the merge, and perhaps even after any conquest modification months later in 2018, if nothing is done to make the system more equitable.

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I'll maintain the position that less-than-mega guilds will experience profound dismay after the merge, and perhaps even after any conquest modification months later in 2018, if nothing is done to make the system more equitable.

 

That's cool. I'm just suggesting bringing this up again after the server merges are done and 5.6 hits the live servers. By that time it becomes relevant for BW again and well by then this thread will be long-forgotten.

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I haven't done conquest since the first couple weeks, so years. But I feel there are some pieces in place that could start to make it interesting.

 

For example combine the D/L victory state timer and D/L world boss concept with some tweaks.

 

I'd be interested if there was a randomly timed event (like D/L victory state), spawning a miniboss on a contested planet behind an instance in a known location. The first guild (based on group lead) to kill said boss gets the conquest points, all others to kill within the timer get something else. This could be randomly occurring (so the only benefit to a massive guild would be if they had 24 hour coverage), the instance would limit the group size (so multiple groups in a massive guild only have a slight advantage if the fight is difficult), can't really be grinded in your sleep or with logged out alts.

 

Then add on some basic things that will probably be even among all guilds. Like the 1x credit for clearing an operation and only allow one time credit to the guild's score (not every player completing). So a smaller guild could divide and conquer and compete with a larger guild. These would mostly even out but ensures guilds participate in everything.

 

Anyway I'm sure that can be critiqued but there has to be design with a minimum guild size in mind and minimal benefit to being larger. Guild victory achievements could still be tied to individual goals with the same or similar current rules.

Edited by bdatt
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It is true, conquest sucks for mid and small guilds and will likely get worse because I'm 95% sure the "upgrade" they do to it will severely sabbotage small guilds, and also agree that the server merges will kill the conquest game for most guilds because they will be squeezing too many guilds into that list.

 

They need to make changes that will make conquest attractive for guilds of all sizes in a fair way. Maybe:

 

- Make conquest gains or which top10 list your guild is on based on average daily activity. So if you have a tiny guild with 5 friends in it and they put in a total of 20hrs a week, they'd be competing with a guild with 1000 members that only has 1 person logging in for a total of 20hrs a week. Neither would be competing with a large guild that has 300 characters logging in for a total of 6000hrs a week. So if all 3 invaded Ilum, there would be 2 different top 10 lists for Ilum. This is just the start of an idea, obviously this can be tweaked to be weighted by other factors instead of just conquest/hour, but it is a start (so you do not have to earn conquest 100% of logged in time etc). It doesn't punish big guilds, and it lets all guilds participate. How many divisions of top 10 lists would be determined.

 

OR

- Every week have ALL the planets to invade (how many are there like 12?) with some sort of "profit sharing" type factor for guilds with less active hours per week.

 

Conquest is a good motivator for players, but it is terrible right now. What I mean is, it is fun to log in and contribute to your guild gains, even more so in a small/medium guild because your contribution is a huge percentage. But guilds with only 5 or 10 ppl on at a time during peak time cannot be participants really. Yes that means guilds of 1000 population also, some of them do not have more than 10 on at a time due to the bleeding of player activity.

 

And big guilds that compete well in conquest isn't fun for players currently either. Because the big guild FORCES the member to do conquest or get kicked. If I wanted a job I'd stay at work, when I'm on the game I want to do what I WANT TO DO. People should stay away from jerk guilds like that. A better conquest design would allow for more player fun with conquest in both the small and large guild cases.

 

Simple revamps could fix it, but instead they will completely go the opposite and make it worse by making it better for larger guilds and down further goes player fun.

Edited by Stellarcrusade
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