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Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Remove kolto probes from operative DPS

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
05.14.2019 , 12:09 AM | #11
I don't like using the term, but this looks more like a learn to play issue than anything.

Operative off-heals are a useful tool for pvp and pve, but they are not overpowered. If you want to take the op's off-heals away then what will you give them in return? (3 heals-to-full when taking damage would be nice have ...)

Every kolto probe that is dropped takes a gcd. If an op is healing, then they are not dps'ing.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

LD_Little_Dragon's Avatar


LD_Little_Dragon
05.14.2019 , 12:33 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
bangs head against wall*

pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds. bioware is just too afraid to nerf dcds because thats coming to close to the sun of not holding pvers hands.
Where are you getting this? Operatives might not be the top parsing dps spec, but lethality is still one of the better ones. Even concealment ops aren't bottom of the heap for pve.
Stealthy heals, stealthy dps, stealthy tank.

Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.14.2019 , 12:53 AM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by LD_Little_Dragon View Post
Where are you getting this? Operatives might not be the top parsing dps spec, but lethality is still one of the better ones. Even concealment ops aren't bottom of the heap for pve.
lethality is an aoe spec, it is dilerately designed to be better at crowd dps than all burst specs and quasy burst spec.

as for how good concealment is at pve, I only said it is suffering currently, my comment based on the fact that its well known knowledge that their dps is low in 5.0 pve. Im curious as to which class you believe is lower, maybe burst sorc? thats setting the bar pretty low.

while it may be tempting to paste a starparse roster of highest possible dps, keep in mind what decides how viable a class is at pve activities is not starparses top operative extordinaire but rather on average how does the class perform in dps check with your run of the mill guildy or pug player.

robertthebard's Avatar


robertthebard
05.14.2019 , 01:20 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
This wont do much to PVE, if anything. DPS operatives need to do dmg, not heal. That is the healers job. If ever they do NEED to heal, it is a nicher scenario or something went horribly wrong aka outlier case and can be ignored as an adverse impact.
I'd say it doesn't affect skilled teams in PvP either, and so should be left alone. If you can't focus fire, or organize a team that is willing to focus fire, or, if you are focus firing and still can't overcome some heals, then I'd say the issue is with your team, and not a class feature that's been around for a long while.
Quote: Originally Posted by Transcendent View Post
Also, just a small point. Why should anyone who plays this game exclusively for any particular type of content, have to run a different type of content just to earn gear? What is that attitude all about?

Nemmar's Avatar


Nemmar
05.14.2019 , 02:18 AM | #15
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
So you would also suggest that Sorc and Merc should lose the equivalent?

How about dps who can tank, taunt or off guard?

What about tanks that setup themselves up to skank tank?

All of them are a hybrid setup. Why should Operatives lose something and not the others.
Sounds to me that all of them are a problem.

But hey... i don't care about arena.

Actually thinking about it, this guy is probably mistaken. The operative was probably virulence and was throwing instant raw heals as well. I doubt the probes alone keep anyone alive.
This particular problem would be solved with the nerf to that trait. But imo, dps shouldn't have such strong off-heals and guards/taunt damage reductions. They should not be as good as the healer/tank versions or outright removed.

JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
05.14.2019 , 10:17 AM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Seterade View Post
this is exactly what needs to happen because pve operatives are suffering right now because of low dps and pvp operatives are on top of the food chain because of their dcds.
It is downright silly to suggest that dps ops are better than dps mercs in pvp right now.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
05.14.2019 , 10:33 AM | #17
First of all, "nerfoperatives" is a meme because L2P issues, not because they actually need a nerf. But in a 1v1, a good op will kill you or stall you indefinitely. This is because they are a very mobile stealth toon with offheals.

Secondly, an operative/scoundrel in ruffian/lethality has to waste 2 GCD's to apply his HoT's. If he applies them before the match begins, he has to remember to reapply them before they wear off costing 1 GCD for each. If he wants to roll-heal, that costs 2 GCD's: 1 for the roll, and another for the heal. All this time he is not contributing to dps of his team except for whatever dots he has applied to targets. If he has dots applied to enemy targets, then RIP your team's mezzes.

Op/scoundrels have a unique playstyle. But that doesn't mean they need nerfs. They can be countered easily by focusing them. Ruffian/Lethality is very squish. Net him and kill him. If he uses a stunbreaker, stun him and global him.

Finally, I offheal for more on my sages and sorcs vs ops/scoundrel, not even counting bubble mitigation. Merc/Mando offheals is pretty darn good too. So the issue is probably more with dps offhealing in general, not ops/scoundrels in particular.
-Beruhl
ᕕ( ᐛ )ᕗ

Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Lies have been corrected.

Keta's Avatar


Keta
05.14.2019 , 10:58 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Off healing vs off healing is all thatís needed here. If you want to remove off heal on one class then you need to do it for all. Same as all hybrid specs.

If your problem is it is too powerful, then you donít ask to have the ability removed, you ask for the ability to be nerfed. Then you provide numbers to support your case.

Just because someone over healed vs your own performance, doesnít mean an ability needs a nerf. It might mean you need to get better. And considering your post is the first Iíve seen (in this meta) to complain about this ability, I have a feeling itís most likely your own perception when compared to your own ability.

Also, while I have an Operative. Iím less than mediocre on her, so I mainly use her to farm mats. If Iím going to pvp, Iíll be on my Jugg, Sin, Sorc, Mara, Sniper or Merc. I donít play a PT or Operative in ranked or regs.
Oh stop being reasonable.
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Seterade's Avatar


Seterade
05.14.2019 , 11:39 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by JediMasterAlex View Post
It is downright silly to suggest that dps ops are better than dps mercs in pvp right now.
come on, you know better than that. it is much harder to kill an operative in an arena than a merc. and in a 1v1 an op will kill a merc if they are equal skill.

@rion

who cares if you lose a gcd for a hl? your VS is a delayed dmg burst, your crippling slash isnt even an attack really, and you have 3k hps. 2 ops have 6k hps.

Tofo's Avatar


Tofo
05.14.2019 , 11:49 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Benirons View Post
So i had an arena match on my merc healer with 3 dps vs 4 dps, one of them fully decked out 258 operative.

After the first round they ended up doing two thirds of my healing. some 600k v 400k. We lost, i died first i think, no im not great, but im also not a trash can.

That is a lot of *********** healing on a DPS.... y is kolto probes not an exclusive operative healer ability? Insta cast, low energy cost. At the very least a DPS should not be able to cast kolto probes on group members unless they r specced heals.

Operative can simply do too much, basically acting as a healer and a very very slippery DPS as well.
This is why the Game is like it is BOYZ and GIRZ , Someone comes in here and says oooooooooooooooo PVPVPVPVPVPVPVPVP . Next thing you know is someone saying, man I wish they had not made heals so bad I can not get this operation or vet flashpoint done cuzz we ALLLLLLLLLLLLLL keep dying. This is total par fan BOYz And Fan Grilz.
ToFo