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Is It Time To Get Rid of Ranked for Good?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Is It Time To Get Rid of Ranked for Good?

sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.05.2019 , 09:24 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
I’d like to also clear up a fallacy that the ranked community is so small or not many people play it.

There are currently 12210 characters listed as playing ranked in season 11 (not including the cheats who’ve been caught and have a ranking of 1).

Even if 50% of those are first timers who don’t return or mat farmers, thats still leaves 6105 characters.

Let’s say players have 3 Alts (even though a lot just have one due to the ridiculous gearing). That’s 2035 individual players.

Obviously I cannot know wether 50% are first timers or mat farmers or how many Alts people have. But even on my over estimated guess work, you can see it’s not a small number and I would hazard a guess it is much higher than that.

A more conservative number is more likely 65-75% of characters are really there to play ranked. And people probably only have 1-3 Alts. You are then looking at over 3000-4000+ actual ranked players.
So your idea is to clear up a "fallacy" using made up facts, guesses, estimates and uncomfirmed data. OK.
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KendraP's Avatar


KendraP
05.05.2019 , 09:35 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
So your idea is to clear up a "fallacy" using made up facts, guesses, estimates and uncomfirmed data. OK.
I assume the 12k number comes from the leaderboards, after that everything is guesswork because BW is never going to tell us how many people play what content.

The point is that as long as there are some people who are only subbed for ranked pvp we should leave it in the game because more players actively playing benefits everyone.

I am no ranked pvp fan - I find ranked pvp to be a breeding ground for not just cheating, but unsportsmanlike behavior in general. But sometimes the solution is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. All I want ranked players to realize is that just because someone does not choose to do ranked, does not mean they are automatically worse than someone that does. Its remarkable really how much simplier everything would be if we all simply treated each other with basic respect (and yes, I'm guilty of breaking the golden rule on occasion).

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 10:10 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
So your idea is to clear up a "fallacy" using made up facts, guesses, estimates and uncomfirmed data. OK.
You can’t argue that there aren’t 12210 characters currently on the leader board for season 11.

And yes, the rest is guess work. But any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that there are many more people playing ranked than you think.

TrixxieTriss's Avatar


TrixxieTriss
05.05.2019 , 10:13 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by KendraP View Post
I assume the 12k number comes from the leaderboards, after that everything is guesswork because BW is never going to tell us how many people play what content.

The point is that as long as there are some people who are only subbed for ranked pvp we should leave it in the game because more players actively playing benefits everyone.

I am no ranked pvp fan - I find ranked pvp to be a breeding ground for not just cheating, but unsportsmanlike behavior in general. But sometimes the solution is not to throw out the baby with the bathwater. All I want ranked players to realize is that just because someone does not choose to do ranked, does not mean they are automatically worse than someone that does. Its remarkable really how much simplier everything would be if we all simply treated each other with basic respect (and yes, I'm guilty of breaking the golden rule on occasion).
Agreed, you’ve pretty much summed up what I’ve been saying and how I feel too.

I don’t think the OP cares for anyone else because they have it out for the ranked format for what ever reason. It makes you wonder what burnt then so bad about it

merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
05.06.2019 , 12:42 AM | #25
Like I said in another thread, I would introduce a very long preseason, like we had at launch of the game. That would clear things up. Bioware would see how many would stay and how many would leave.

People always come back to this game, as time has shown, so if they then launch another season, people will be back if really too many left.
Merovejec
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.06.2019 , 01:02 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
Agreed, you’ve pretty much summed up what I’ve been saying and how I feel too.

I don’t think the OP cares for anyone else because they have it out for the ranked format for what ever reason. It makes you wonder what burnt then so bad about it
It's interesting how you keep trying to turn this into an emotional rather than a rational discussion.
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.06.2019 , 01:17 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by TrixxieTriss View Post
You can’t argue that there aren’t 12210 characters currently on the leader board for season 11.

And yes, the rest is guess work. But any reasonable person can come to the conclusion that there are many more people playing ranked than you think.
Any "reasonable" person can come to the conclusion that your made up facts are accurate?

That's an interesting line of reasoning.

I can do the same thing: There are 12,210 characters on the leaderboard. Many, I don't have time to count, so I'll say 50%, only have 10 wins or less. So that leaves 6,100. Then, of those 6,000, many probably only played a month before getting sick and tired of the attitude of ranked. Let's say a lot, because it sounds better for my argument, and everyone I've talked to personally hates ranked. So like another 25% gone, leaving 3,000. Now, those 3,000 are obviously a lot of alts for very few players. Judging from the number of same-name toons on the top 96, each ranked player that's serious has at least 4 alts, more likely 6 to 8. So, being generous at 5, that leaves us with around 600 players for ranked.

I'm estimating by the way queues feel that there are probably around 12 million people playing SWTOR, so that's less than 1 percent playing ranked. Whew, glad I got all that solid reasoning done!

In reality, a reasonable person can answer these questions:

1. Are there more PVE or PVP players?
2. Of those PVP players, do all play ranked pvp?
3. What percentage of pvp players queue for ranked?
4. Have you ever seen people asking for others to queue for ranked pvp because the queues aren't popping?

And the most important question:

What percentage of the playerbase enjoys ranked? How many times have you heard people talking about how "excited" "thrilled" "happy" "satisfied" or similar adjectives when playing ranked?

I don't have the answers obviously, but the devs do, and they are who the OP was for.
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merovejec's Avatar


merovejec
05.06.2019 , 04:38 AM | #28
@sharkfishman is correct in his posts. All parts of this game have their purpose and the Devs need to ask themselves what is the purpose and expectation they have from ranked.

What is group ranked for the players? I am not sure but I can tell you how I see it. Ranked is part of the game that provides unique rewards. These rewards are fairly easy to get due to many ways of how ranked can be exploited. The rewards are limited (mainly the top 96) so there is a desire by people to get the unique stuff. For some time ranked was a source of real world money for quite a few players. This was definitely not the intention of the Devs to have people gain money on their behalf. Bioware did not even gain anything here. Maybe a few subbed accounts which were used as bots.

Apart from this business ranked served as a scene for a small group of PVPers who monopolized ranked and the rewards for themselves. They got the top 3s, and gold rewards on all their alts. They farmed other players in ranked who were not this "society" like mat farmers, newbies, medicore players etc. I do not think Devs had this intention either to have the same people keep on getting the rewards.

So looking at this from my perspective, what is the point of ranked if its being abused like this?
Merovejec
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sharkfishman's Avatar


sharkfishman
05.06.2019 , 08:00 AM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by merovejec View Post
@sharkfishman is correct in his posts. All parts of this game have their purpose and the Devs need to ask themselves what is the purpose and expectation they have from ranked.

What is group ranked for the players? I am not sure but I can tell you how I see it. Ranked is part of the game that provides unique rewards. These rewards are fairly easy to get due to many ways of how ranked can be exploited. The rewards are limited (mainly the top 96) so there is a desire by people to get the unique stuff. For some time ranked was a source of real world money for quite a few players. This was definitely not the intention of the Devs to have people gain money on their behalf. Bioware did not even gain anything here. Maybe a few subbed accounts which were used as bots.

Apart from this business ranked served as a scene for a small group of PVPers who monopolized ranked and the rewards for themselves. They got the top 3s, and gold rewards on all their alts. They farmed other players in ranked who were not this "society" like mat farmers, newbies, medicore players etc. I do not think Devs had this intention either to have the same people keep on getting the rewards.

So looking at this from my perspective, what is the point of ranked if its being abused like this?
I agree completely. The devs may have some reasons for ranked, such as driving players to obtain the best gear, sub, etc. But I think they need to ask whether ranked is accomplishing this purpose for the majority, or whether its design actually has the opposite effect for many. How many people, even though there are valuable rewards and the crystal needed for MH OH, still can't bring themselves to queue for it due to these inherent problems and wintraders/bots/glitchers?

Obviously, I don't know, because I don't have the data. But they do.
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DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
05.06.2019 , 08:33 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by sharkfishman View Post
I agree completely. The devs may have some reasons for ranked, such as driving players to obtain the best gear, sub, etc. But I think they need to ask whether ranked is accomplishing this purpose for the majority, or whether its design actually has the opposite effect for many. How many people, even though there are valuable rewards and the crystal needed for MH OH, still can't bring themselves to queue for it due to these inherent problems and wintraders/bots/glitchers?

Obviously, I don't know, because I don't have the data. But they do.
Only a very small number of PVP-ers que for ranked compared to general PVP population... There are times on DM when even in prime time the SR que slows down while unranked pops almost every 5 minutes to 10 minutes... and unranked pops all day from morning till night. So what does this tell you about the interest in ranked ? There are a lot of players in unranked who qued s8-9 but you don't see them again in SR. Wonder why ?

I am sure Bioware are trying to revitalize the que to make it more active and that's why they introduce rewards like the crystal and mats, but it's not enough....

In the end I think the removal of 8 man ranked kinda sealed it's fate early on.. and 4 man ranked hasn't really changed much over the years as the same players abuse it every year so in terms of resources it gets exactly as much as it deserves. Why would you as dev invest resources(which are limited for swtor) in a game mode that wast majority of the player base don't play, ? avoid.. heck.. some guild members don't even know what team ranked is or how it works

Also, queing ranked for a newbie to might get him the worst gaming experience he's had as an SWTOR player so far and the dude won't keep queing for long. For him it's not worth it.. and why should he play something that causes him stress and frustration ? Not to mention about the attitude the avarega ranked Joe has towards newcomers.

Ranked is kept alive on life support just because SWTOR is an MMO and most MMO's have some form of competitive PVP in them.. That's kinda it.

It's our fault that we take it too seriously....