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If the ranked elo system is to change, please do NOT change it to the previous system

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
If the ranked elo system is to change, please do NOT change it to the previous system

Talon_strikes's Avatar


Talon_strikes
04.17.2019 , 10:17 AM | #1
I've noticed something extremely concerning that some people have suggested ever since the brokenness of ranked became virtually the sole focus of the PvP forum since last year, and that is is that ranked needs to go back to the previous matchmaking system. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS.

When I used to play, I remember always getting shafted because it would put the lower rated tank, lower rated healer and lower rated DPS on one team while the other team had the higher rated ones. It's was virtually impossible to climb under that matchmaking, especially if your placements were ****. If your toon got rated into elo hell, it was most likely going to stay there.

While I'm for other changes that have been proposed (such as not putting all Mercs on 1 team and all Sorcs on the other), reverting to the previous matchmaking system of putting all the lower elo characters against the higher elo ones would be a huge mistake.

Just scrap the easily and heavily manipulated elo system altogether and put in the more popular win points-based system that has been proposed or something similar to it.
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SlimeyDoom's Avatar


SlimeyDoom
04.17.2019 , 12:15 PM | #2
Actually, the old system rewarded you a lot if you were a new rated player. If you were the low rated player, and won a match because you were genuinely better than high rated players, you could gain tremendous amounts of rating. Also, elo hell does not exist in this game. If you cannot climb out of a rating bracket, you most likely belong there.

Zurules's Avatar


Zurules
04.17.2019 , 05:35 PM | #3
Atleast in the old system I sometimes felt like the players on my team were around my level. Today I honestly cant remember ever being able to say that because if you had 16 players( imagine they are seeded) in the q the teams always seems to match up like this:

team 1: 1,8,9,16 Vs team 2: 2,7,10,15

team 3: 3,6,11,14 vs team 4: 4,5,12,13


I wish it would make teams like this:


team 1: 1,4,5,8 vs team 2: 2,3,6,7

team 3: 9,12,13,16 vs team 4: 10,11,14,15



Mixing the lower 8 players with the higher 8 players just sucks. Right now, it seems like you are guaranteed to never a have team of similar skill, its always a mix of bad and good. So I would definitely prefer the old system so I can atleast have more quality games.
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MandoMetal's Avatar


MandoMetal
04.17.2019 , 08:40 PM | #4
If they get rid of cross-role backfilling and remove mats, I have the opinion that this solo ranked queue system would be somewhat better than the one from previous seasons.

This is due in part to them eliminating a lot of the previous issues with solos such as factional imbalance, ease of map hacking, backfilling for elo, server elo transfer, etc... but also this is due to the fact that they redesigned how the system paired players by elo.



In the previous system the players were matched in a general pattern of 1st highest rated with 3rd highest 5th and 7th, vs 2cd and 4th, 6th, 8th (when players queue relative to others timing wise mattered and still does as it can shift queue position, but that seemed to be the general pattern). Highest dps in queue most often got paired with highest tank, highest healer, or both. 2cd highest dps was almost always on the opposing team from the highest dps with the lower rated tank and heals as well as dps.

This design works fine generally if there is a sufficient population as the lower average team had higher potential for gaining elo, but once the queue becomes very unbalanced elo or skill wise it often favors the higher rated team, even though the higher average team got less elo from a win. The 2cd highest dps's team in certain situations could be consistently at a statistical disadvantage, especially in tank healer combo situations with great skill disparity between teams.

"The rule of #2" "Curse of 2cd dps in queue" was for sure a thing, and was known by quite a few Top3/T1 level players as you could isolate elos and predict potential matches with a decent degree of reliability in higher tiers.



This new system seems to have the opposite effect and punish the higher rated players, with 2 or so of the highest dps in queue + 2 of the lowest vs an average team, with the lowest elo players you have to carry that are often mat farmers being a main problem.

While you can still get to the top by almost sheer luck in solos due to all the RNG, most of those past 1.4 to 1.5k+ are good players as you have to carry rather hard past that point. I find the "highest rateds having to carry hard fighting tooth and nail" type system better than the "rich are somewhat more likely to get richer" type system that the other could often be.



With that being said there is far too much RNG now with mats, cross-role backfilling, and just general bad players for either system at all to be as valid as the roughly 1st-9th seasons in solos... these issues should be addressed before any system can be reliably implemented.
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bladech's Avatar


bladech
04.19.2019 , 08:54 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Talon_strikes View Post
I've noticed something extremely concerning that some people have suggested ever since the brokenness of ranked became virtually the sole focus of the PvP forum since last year, and that is is that ranked needs to go back to the previous matchmaking system. PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS.

When I used to play, I remember always getting shafted because it would put the lower rated tank, lower rated healer and lower rated DPS on one team while the other team had the higher rated ones. It's was virtually impossible to climb under that matchmaking, especially if your placements were ****. If your toon got rated into elo hell, it was most likely going to stay there.

While I'm for other changes that have been proposed (such as not putting all Mercs on 1 team and all Sorcs on the other), reverting to the previous matchmaking system of putting all the lower elo characters against the higher elo ones would be a huge mistake.

Just scrap the easily and heavily manipulated elo system altogether and put in the more popular win points-based system that has been proposed or something similar to it.
No, current system in all matters is UNFAIR.Now If you dont climb to top spots during first 2 weeks you wont be able to do it up to the end of season. Current system just carrying bad players by matching highrated skilled players with absolute garbage and giving bad players with low elo middle-rated team mates. If you couldn't reach high elo with previous system which was random to elo it means you arent good enough and require carry from the system. Thats all

mishin_max's Avatar


mishin_max
04.21.2019 , 05:29 PM | #6
I lost everything on my tank yesterday! Idk why if i have 1600 elo i must carry 3 noobs in my team? against 4 1500 rated players? Even if i lost 100 rating the system doesnt stop trolling me!
Stats:
https://gyazo.com/89fda3d4b27673ed43ebd91bd299fd0b
https://gyazo.com/312429764a2953d11b22e69d7a30be26
https://gyazo.com/1e7163b1d5829374bb9eccf601a75ba4
https://gyazo.com/3b2b120b1f9207cb1e812ec79fdc313b
Result:
https://gyazo.com/7e7db93ab817caec2872bcddd8c96a6c

DavidAtkinson's Avatar


DavidAtkinson
04.22.2019 , 03:29 AM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
No, current system in all matters is UNFAIR.Now If you dont climb to top spots during first 2 weeks you wont be able to do it up to the end of season. Current system just carrying bad players by matching highrated skilled players with absolute garbage and giving bad players with low elo middle-rated team mates. If you couldn't reach high elo with previous system which was random to elo it means you arent good enough and require carry from the system. Thats all
Flawed logic in both cases...

In previous system the game matched players of similar ratings and formed a group and then looked for whats' left in que and made the second group. That is why you often saw top players in the same group a lot of times vs low rated garbage resulting in gank fests and 2k+ ratings on the leaderboards very early in SR.

So in that system if you failed to get high rating in the 1st two weeks it was pretty much over as you were constantly matched with low level ppl.

In this system so you say high rated players are put in trash groups and if you don't get top stop after 2 weeks it's over ? Well the two systems sound very similar with the only difference that "skilled'' players can show how skilled they are by carrying bad players. Oh but you can't carry that ? Ofc you can't... How can you carry the jugg that dies in 10 seconds and you get him 3 times in a row ?

BOTH systems matched players based on their rating and that's bad in both cases. Matching should be random NOT based on rating and elo gain/loss should be fixed and not based on other groups rating and bottom line... This system has to go as you are punished way too much for losing and we need points system instead that rewards winning more than losing. BUt.. of course the current people are against that as they wouldn't be able to get top 10 spots in SR out of nowhere with 10 wins... or 15 wins.

Bilch's Avatar


Bilch
04.22.2019 , 04:05 AM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by mishin_max View Post
you can loose that much in 1 game? thats kinda ****ed up

wouldnt it be better if you would get a set amount of points for a lost game but if youre low rank you get more points for a win and with high rank you get less points for a win. so that you need to win more then you loose in order to maintain youre rank but that a couple of losses dont completely ruin youre rank.

I dont play much ranked but i think it would be aslo good to gain points (or atleast dont loose that much) for a close game if you win 1 round for example. I cant say that for sure but i allways lost the same amount no matter what happened in the game.

Rion_Starkiller's Avatar


Rion_Starkiller
04.22.2019 , 08:25 AM | #9
Agree with OP. Reverting to the old ELO system would be a step backwards. Let's further tweak and fine-tune the current system.
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Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
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JediMasterAlex's Avatar


JediMasterAlex
04.22.2019 , 08:39 AM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by MandoMetal View Post
While you can still get to the top by almost sheer luck in solos due to all the RNG, most of those past 1.4 to 1.5k+ are good players as you have to carry rather hard past that point. I find the "highest rateds having to carry hard fighting tooth and nail" type system better than the "rich are somewhat more likely to get richer" type system that the other could often be.
This is the correct answer. The old system actively favored high rated players. The new system is neutral; it simply creates the fairest match up possible based on the elo of everyone in the queue. There is no "punishment" of high rated players. Are high rated players put in games that are extremely difficult to win? Yes. Is that ideal? No, but due to the low population queueing, it is literally the only fair way to sort the queue, assuming we stick with the elo system.

Quote: Originally Posted by bladech View Post
No, current system in all matters is UNFAIR.Now If you dont climb to top spots during first 2 weeks you wont be able to do it up to the end of season. Current system just carrying bad players by matching highrated skilled players with absolute garbage and giving bad players with low elo middle-rated team mates. If you couldn't reach high elo with previous system which was random to elo it means you arent good enough and require carry from the system. Thats all
More babble from an admitted wintrader.

Quote: Originally Posted by Zurules View Post
Mixing the lower 8 players with the higher 8 players just sucks. Right now, it seems like you are guaranteed to never a have team of similar skill, its always a mix of bad and good. So I would definitely prefer the old system so I can atleast have more quality games.
How shocking. You'd prefer the old system that consistently stacked the team in your favor. Games always seem of higher "quality" when you're always winning. It's kind of amazing that as soon as the teams are actually balanced fairly, you barely queue or have any success in ranked anymore.