A level 50 PvP bracket simply will not save the PvP in this game.

There is no logical explanation for having a PvP stat in this MMO game, or in fact any MMO game. The only possible reason for Expertise to exist in this game is to screw over people who cant grind it first.

Even if you did have a 50's only bracket, you'd be creating more problems than you're fixing. Aside from all the obvious queue time issues, the 50's bracket will suffer from the exact same problems we have now; the bracket will divided up into New 50's and Old 50's, ie. people who dont have their 10% Expertise bonus yet, and those that do.

But you might say, "Everyone will become an Old 50 eventually." and yes, they might. But then what would be the point in everyone having the same 10% Expertise bonus, when all it's going to do is cancel out everyone elses 10% Expertise bonus. The only outside issue there is that healing will still be 10% stronger, but if you wanted that why wouldn't you just lower the Trauma debuff by 10%?

It's honestly unimaginable to even begin to hope to understand what anyone was thinking when they thought putting Expertise into the game would be a good idea.

Removing the stat doesn't mean PvP Gear has to go, the point of PvP Gear/Experience/Credits in the first place is so that people who want an alternative to PvE can still progress. There all kinds of stats in this game that mean you could make all kinds of PvP Gear Sets, whether they are Purple or Mods, so people can look however they want to, or however you want them to look, and they can mix and match all these different pieces of gear to whatever their hearts desire. To give you an idea of the combinations of gear that could be possible:

- Primary Stat

- Endurance

• Crit Rating
  
• Surge
  
• Alacrity
  
• Power
  

Now reverse the Primary Stat and Endurance, so that Endurance is the bigger of the two and look how much choice you have... something for everyone, even. Now when you're 50 and you arent bolstered anymore, you can decide which stat you want more of, in return for lower stats on other stuff, or you can even decide to have an equal balance.

A crazy thing, having a choice, isn't it? Like choosing to have Fun over Frustration. Or choosing to resubscribe... or perhaps not.

I'm not even mad.

Raid gear vs people who do not want to raid

WoW calls it Resilience

Rift calls it Valor

TOR calls it Expertise

What do Wow and Rift have in common seeing as some one else mentioned the names.... They both have extremely low new PvP player uptake. Getting people to enter PvP in those games and stick with it long enough to be on par gear wise (Or close enough to be competitive) simply doesn't happen, at a rate that replaces outgoing players.

Both of those games have PvP communities that loose members faster then they replace them with new Ex PvE Playing converts. The PvP stats make it VERY VERY hard to introduce new players to the fantastic world of PvP that we all get. I think most of us will grind on alts when we have too ect... because we are already hooked. There was a time when every one of us was not a PVP player... admit it none of us came to PvP first.

The bracketing that PvP stats creates drives away growth. It will become a problem for TOR in the future as well.

The reason for it isn't to help or hinder pvp'ers, it's to prevent raiders from being forced to pvp to remain competitive

And also to prevent competitive pvpers from being forced to raid.

Seriously, no one seems to remember the old days when the raiders would dominate PvP based on gear advantages and everyone would whine about that.

The game is built around gear progression. Having two different paths for PvE and PvP is a good thing because it allows people to focus on what they like to do without feeling like they have to do everything if they don't want to. If you want a completely level playing field from the get go, there are many other different types of PvP games out there.

What do Wow and Rift have in common seeing as some one else mentioned the names.... They both have extremely low new PvP player uptake. Getting people to enter PvP in those games and stick with it long enough to be on par gear wise (Or close enough to be competitive) simply doesn't happen, at a rate that replaces outgoing players.

 

Both of those games have PvP communities that loose members faster then they replace them with new Ex PvE Playing converts. The PvP stats make it VERY VERY hard to introduce new players to the fantastic world of PvP that we all get. I think most of us will grind on alts when we have too ect... because we are already hooked. There was a time when every one of us was not a PVP player... admit it none of us came to PvP first.

 

The bracketing that PvP stats creates drives away growth. It will become a problem for TOR in the future as well.

This has to be the best logic i have ever read, you sir need to be the head of PVP development for Bioware.

Alot of players is working really hard to get that gear doing 15+++ warzones everyday for weeks, so no they will not remove it to make only hardcore raiders have the best gear.

If Bio had any vision... they would have done away with the idea of a PvP stat... and designed a PvE Stat. A way to make 30 30 30 stats on both gear... with PvE raid gear that adds 10% bonuses too PvE content. That would have been the fix.... PvP stats are the completely wrong way to go about it... No NPC is going to wine that that fully geared raid group is smacking em 10% harder.

What do Wow and Rift have in common seeing as some one else mentioned the names.... They both have extremely low new PvP player uptake. Getting people to enter PvP in those games and stick with it long enough to be on par gear wise (Or close enough to be competitive) simply doesn't happen, at a rate that replaces outgoing players.

 

Both of those games have PvP communities that loose members faster then they replace them with new Ex PvE Playing converts. The PvP stats make it VERY VERY hard to introduce new players to the fantastic world of PvP that we all get. I think most of us will grind on alts when we have too ect... because we are already hooked. There was a time when every one of us was not a PVP player... admit it none of us came to PvP first.

 

The bracketing that PvP stats creates drives away growth. It will become a problem for TOR in the future as well.

In WoW it is not hard to farm a full set of the latest season PVP gear, you dont even have to be that good. Just team up with someone in arena for 2 vs 2 for the points, arena queues are pretty quick so you can farm a set in a couple of days. It puts your team against others with around the same rank.

I'd love to see an MMO offer incentives that are only usable OUTSIDE the PvP zones and everyone is given equal item level basic sets inside it. No more hamster wheel for a PvP stat, instead it rewards coin and gear usable for PvE, crafting mats, speeders, fluff gear, achievements that mean something because it was as fair as possible, etc.

Put the rewards on the outside, put the balance and fair play on the inside. There's your "bolster" system.

I have 300+ expertise and rank 48 atm - I'm not speaking from the bottom end of the pile here.

No it stays! I didn't get my butt whipped for a week straight to have my expertise taken away from me! You become num to losing when trying to grind for your battlemaster gear. You just need to suck it up and get your PVP gear. It's the only thing that counters Raid gear which I personally HATE raiding.

You complaining about Expertise is like a PvPer complaing about being forced to go through Raids in order to get gear. Sorry!

while youre at it BW, just remove PVP altogether

man all these crying kids rant about anything to get their way, and they usually get it, which is how games slowly become easier/lamer overtime

Well, you can thank a small group of BW fanboys in testing for expertise, ridiculous gear stats, which forced the need for a 50s bracket, and sorcs/sages.

Several other things, as well.

Same old argument used in every gear based MMO. People always complain about PvP only stats and gear. Your argument is old and tired.

The reason why it is a good idea to have PvP armor is for one of the reasons you stated. What about those of us who may not like raiding? Why should we be at a disadvantage because of that? Raiders can go grind WZ's too, you know.

The reason for it isn't to help or hinder pvp'ers, it's to prevent raiders from being forced to pvp to remain competitive

This makes no sense.. raiders get their gear from raiding (if all they want to do is raid), if they want to pvp as well then they are in the same boat as the rest of us. I am not sure how the pvp gear is for raiding but there is an outside chance that if raiders wanted to be top tier in both raiding and pvp then they will have to grind out 2 sets of gear.

I kind of agree with the OP, there is no need for a pvp only stat. They only thing that is needed is for top end pvp gear to = raid gear. The reason wow added resilience is because people decked out in top end raid gear were blowing people up in pvp, if wow had just made the top end pvp gear = top end raid gear then both side would have been happy (you get your gear your way and I will get mine my way ).

Expertise = Pvp

Raiding = PVE

So if people would rather PVP than PVE, they should be given a penalty. I mean, Operations gear would destroy all those PvP players then right? So a PvE player has a boost over a pure PvP player, but a PvP player is not allowed to have an advantage over a PvE player? Rewarding a palyer who excels in the PvE aspect of the game by making them unstoppable in PvP would kill PvP. You're not seperating to completely different styles of gaming that rely on different tactics.

In WoW, the higher tier PvP players have far more resilence than the honor/valor grinders with bad ratings. Those that compete for the .5% of the rankings titles have signifcantly more resil than the rest of the field based on being able to go get the top end gear based on their rating.

Same old argument used in every gear based MMO. People always complain about PvP only stats and gear. Your argument is old and tired.

 

The reason why it is a good idea to have PvP armor is for one of the reasons you stated. What about those of us who may not like raiding? Why should we be at a disadvantage because of that? Raiders can go grind WZ's too, you know.

Raid gear isn't any better than pvp gear if we didn't have expertise replacing stats, other than it looks better.

If PVP needs a reward system, then have it apply expertise to your character, not gear. It has no use outside of PVP, but while in PVP it "activates". The higher the valor you have, the more "expertise" your character earns.

I hate a system where you have to "swap gear" constantly. EverQuest 2 had a style where every ability you had did something different depending on if you were PVPing or PVEing. If you hit a mob with a super hit, you did 15,000 damage. If you used the same ability on a player, it did 3,000 damage. No gear changes needed. It auto applied to skills....not gear.

this is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard. okay now for my opinions...

expertise is fine the way it is. PVPers PVP, while raiders pve. back in the vanilla days of wow a t2 mage would run through and nuke every single person in one - two shots. why? pvp gear didnt exist and i had somewhat of a life to where i couldn't make raiding my job ( although i will say i wish i could have at the time )

pvp gear came into play with resilience and all of the sudden those tier'd players no longer could insta nuke, infact they were getting blown up. WHY NOT? dont bring your pve gear to pvp and expect to be resilient ( ...resilience get it? )

the fact that wow made it easy to get is whatever to me, made my life easier, and less grinding like a job to do the thing i enjoyed the most - PVP.

NOW if what youre saying is PVP gear has the same stats PLUS expertise as raiding gear then THAT IS WHAT YOU NEED TO BRING UP TO BIOWARE.

ex: pvp gear - 80 str 100 endurance 40 expertise and XX stat here

pve gear - 110 str 70 end XX stat XX stat XX stat ( all raiding relevant such as accuracy power crit surge ect )

those are made up numbers to make my argument. again, dont qq about expertise i wanna pvp and i dont wanna get rolled by raiders who have access to better gear. im absolutely all for a PVEr being a glass cannon and hitting hard but i want them to die...and fast. generally faster than myself.

questions?