So playing SWTOR kind of infected me with the Star Wars virus and I decided to watch the prequels again.

 

No matter how many times I watch them, I just don't see the transition from Jedi to Dark side as believable for Anakin. I get that he was worried about Padme and he was always kind of an emo, whiny ***** (as portrayed in the prequels), but it just seems like at some point he went "EFF it, I'm going evil" without a lot of probably cause. Sidius admitted that he didn't have the power to save Padme yet. He said they could "discover it".

 

One minute Anakin is threatening to turn in the Senator as a Sith Lord, someone who had been a supporter and friend for some time, the next he is lopping off Mace's hand and agreeing to go kill children at the Jedi Temple.

 

I'm not saying it's not plausible. I blame Lucas for the lack of build-up to that point.

 

On a different note, I have been watching the Clone Wars series and it is awesome. Anakin is portrayed in a much better light in that series, as are the other characters and the action is great.

So playing SWTOR kind of infected me with the Star Wars virus and I decided to watch the prequels again.

 

No matter how many times I watch them, I just don't see the transition from Jedi to Dark side as believable for Anakin. I get that he was worried about Padme and he was always kind of an emo, whiny ***** (as portrayed in the prequels), but it just seems like at some point he went "EFF it, I'm going evil" without a lot of probably cause. Sidius admitted that he didn't have the power to save Padme yet. He said they could "discover it".

 

One minute Anakin is threatening to turn in the Senator as a Sith Lord, someone who had been a supporter and friend for some time, the next he is lopping off Mace's hand and agreeing to go kill children at the Jedi Temple.

 

I'm not saying it's not plausible. I blame Lucas for the lack of build-up to that point.

 

On a different note, I have been watching the Clone Wars series and it is awesome. Anakin is portrayed in a much better light in that series, as are the other characters and the action is great.

 

 

Anakin was always "dark side" he just switched teams, of course that is based upon the far better than the film literary Phantom Menace, witness his torture of the Tuskin he had at his mercy at 8 years old.

The switching between turning him in and saving him is suppose to show the conflict in Anakin. He turns to the dark side because he has too much attachment to people in his life and fears losing them. His mothers death was when he really started down the path. There is still good in him the whole way through but he keeps getting pulled back and forth by Palpatines string pulling over his fears of loss and events unfolding in his life. Your right there was kind of a "**** it" moment after he helped kill Mace and saved Palpatine like "I just did something terrible I can't go back." kind of thing.

Equal parts wanting to save Padme from death, which he knew was coming from visions, and Palpatine wiggling into his head.

 

The novelization of Revenge of the Sith tells it a lot better than the movie does.

Anakin was always "dark side" he just switched teams, of course that is based upon the far better than the film literary Phantom Menace, witness his torture of the Tuskin he had at his mercy at 8 years old.

 

I'm pretty sure he saved the Tusken that was caught under a rock.

So playing SWTOR kind of infected me with the Star Wars virus and I decided to watch the prequels again.

 

No matter how many times I watch them, I just don't see the transition from Jedi to Dark side as believable for Anakin. I get that he was worried about Padme and he was always kind of an emo, whiny ***** (as portrayed in the prequels), but it just seems like at some point he went "EFF it, I'm going evil" without a lot of probably cause. Sidius admitted that he didn't have the power to save Padme yet. He said they could "discover it".

 

One minute Anakin is threatening to turn in the Senator as a Sith Lord, someone who had been a supporter and friend for some time, the next he is lopping off Mace's hand and agreeing to go kill children at the Jedi Temple.

 

I'm not saying it's not plausible. I blame Lucas for the lack of build-up to that point.

 

On a different note, I have been watching the Clone Wars series and it is awesome. Anakin is portrayed in a much better light in that series, as are the other characters and the action is great.

 

Fear of loss, as Yoda tried to teach Anakin in their 1:1, he had to let go of his fear of loss. Obviously he didn't, and was willing to do anything even for a chance to save padme. He always struggled with his emotions - killing spree after his mother died, revenge on dooku even though he knew it was against the Jedi ways. I also think the Jedi drove him to the dark side with all their mistrust and doubt in Anakin, he was almost looking for a reason to turn.

 

Obi-wan was key IMO, after they split up Anakin was all downhill, I mean he was already prone to the dark side, without Obi-Wan there as a mentor, friend and big brother-like presence, Sidious turned/manipulated him easily...I don't think Anakin really trusted anyone else at that time

Edited January 20, 2012 by Xtrema

How do you go from doing mostly good to just saying "okay, sure, I'll go kill some Jedi kids at the temple"? That's the part that really just didn't seem to make sense to me?

 

I could understand if he just said "Okay, I helped kill Mace, I might as well throw in with Sidious", but to go from a borderline hero to killing children? That needed much more of a build-up. He didn't even balk at the order or cringe. It was like he was a puppet with no mind of his own.

How do you go from doing mostly good to just saying "okay, sure, I'll go kill some Jedi kids at the temple"? That's the part that really just didn't seem to make sense to me?

 

I could understand if he just said "Okay, I helped kill Mace, I might as well throw in with Sidious", but to go from a borderline hero to killing children? That needed much more of a build-up. He didn't even balk at the order or cringe. It was like he was a puppet with no mind of his own.

 

In the book, he learns that the technique of Darth Plageus that Palpatine was talking about was possibly in the Jedi Archives with the Sith Holocrons in their possession. However, when the Council named him Master In Name Only, with none of the benefits, including access to what he needs in the archives, he saw it as the council getting in the way of him trying to find a way to save Padme.

We can also speculate that over the course of his life, Palpatine became like his mother and Padme...he didn't want to lose someone who was possibly the best father figure he had next to Obi-Wan, and in turn the Jedi were distrustful of him, because he was close with Palpatine, with whom the Council had fallen out of favor with during the Clone Wars.

 

They don't really touch on why he was angry about his Master title being nerfed, but the book makes it clear why, and puts it in perspective.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Listerman

I'm pretty sure he saved the Tusken that was caught under a rock.

 

I'll go back and look again, but I am fairly certain it was that he tortured the wounded Tusken then decided "nobly" to let him live.

In the book, he learns that the technique of Darth Plageus that Palpatine was talking about was possibly in the Jedi Archives with the Sith Holocrons in their possession. However, when the Council named him Master In Name Only, with none of the benefits, including access to what he needs in the archives, he saw it as the council getting in the way of him trying to find a way to save Padme.

We can also speculate that over the course of his life, Palpatine became like his mother and Padme...he didn't want to lose someone who was possibly the best father figure he had next to Obi-Wan, and in turn the Jedi were distrustful of him, because he was close with Palpatine, with whom the Council had fallen out of favor with during the Clone Wars.

 

They don't really touch on why he was angry about his Master title being nerfed, but the book makes it clear why, and puts it in perspective.

 

It's too bad that it takes books to fill in the blanks that a movie should have been able to sufficiently convey.

How do you go from doing mostly good to just saying "okay, sure, I'll go kill some Jedi kids at the temple"? That's the part that really just didn't seem to make sense to me?

 

It's pretty easy, with significant emotional trauma/stress, to dehumanize people that don't mean anything to you, personally. Palpatine probably made it seem like a kind of 'price' to pay to get Padme back - just a few people have to die. All of them at the Temple, in fact. They lied to you, mistrusted you, hated you... What do they matter, anyway? It's the first step on your way to getting Padme back. Getting your mother back. And so on.

 

I could understand if he just said "Okay, I helped kill Mace, I might as well throw in with Sidious", but to go from a borderline hero to killing children? That needed much more of a build-up. He didn't even balk at the order or cringe. It was like he was a puppet with no mind of his own.

 

IIRC, didn't Palpatine already drop the bomb ("I can help you get her back") line on Anakin before that point? If so, it was Anakin protecting the only person he felt could help him. If not... Palpatine still did a lot to help Anakin. He was always there, listening to and guiding him. The Council didn't. Obi-Wan to some extent did, but he wasn't there. Mace was attacking one of the few people that Anakin had any real attachment to.

 

Would you just let it happen? After that, it's an easy conversion to the dark side. A lie there, a twist here, an omission of fact there...

 

Do this thing, and you'll have the power to reshape destiny itself to your fondest dreams.

It's too bad that it takes books to fill in the blanks that a movie should have been able to sufficiently convey.

 

My feelings exactly. The novelization of Revenge was really well told, and makes the movie look like an afterschool special.

It's pretty easy, with significant emotional trauma/stress, to dehumanize people that don't mean anything to you, personally. Palpatine probably made it seem like a kind of 'price' to pay to get Padme back - just a few people have to die. All of them at the Temple, in fact. They lied to you, mistrusted you, hated you... What do they matter, anyway? It's the first step on your way to getting Padme back. Getting your mother back. And so on.

 

 

 

IIRC, didn't Palpatine already drop the bomb ("I can help you get her back") line on Anakin before that point? If so, it was Anakin protecting the only person he felt could help him. If not... Palpatine still did a lot to help Anakin. He was always there, listening to and guiding him. The Council didn't. Obi-Wan to some extent did, but he wasn't there. Mace was attacking one of the few people that Anakin had any real attachment to.

 

Would you just let it happen? After that, it's an easy conversion to the dark side. A lie there, a twist here, an omission of fact there...

 

Do this thing, and you'll have the power to reshape destiny itself to your fondest dreams.

 

Well, earlier in the movie, he talked about the Darth discovering the method to cheat death. But when Anakin discovered he was a Sith Lord, Sidious said something along the lines of "I'm confident we can rediscover the ability to cheat death" and I swore he even admitted that he hadn't discovered it yet, which is much less to grasp for Anakin, especially given the approaching due date for Padme.

 

Forgive me if I'm remembering it wrong, but I'm pretty sure it went something like that. I just remember thinking that Sidious wasn't even promising him a sure thing and he still went for it.

Anakin just went through a good bit of troubles. His pregnant wife, seeing the future of her death...he was just gullible enough to believe Palpatine...

 

Plus, probably part of it is the allure of the Dark Side.

To save the useless love plot.

Well, earlier in the movie, he talked about the Darth discovering the method to cheat death. But when Anakin discovered he was a Sith Lord, Sidious said something along the lines of "I'm confident we can rediscover the ability to cheat death" and I swore he even admitted that he hadn't discovered it yet, which is much less to grasp for Anakin, especially given the approaching due date for Padme.

 

Forgive me if I'm remembering it wrong, but I'm pretty sure it went something like that. I just remember thinking that Sidious wasn't even promising him a sure thing and he still went for it.

 

To a drowning man, the promise of survival doesn't have to be a sure thing. As long as there's a chance.

 

Risk losing her forever, or a chance that she may not have to die? To a man with the specific emotional issues (fear of loss) and the love he had for her, sometimes a chance is all you need.

 

People have killed for less. Even good people.

 

People have killed for less. Even good people.

 

 

Pity she couldn't have force choked mr Hayden however....

I don't blame Hayden for the portrayal of Anakin's character. I blame Lucas. Hayden's not a bad actor. He just spoke the lines he was given. Lucas turned the character into a whiny emo *****.

Anakin never really liked following the 'rules'. He probably disobeyed the council on a number of occasions. That said he started a slow decline towards the Dark Side right when he left his Mother on Tatooine. His Mother's death, his hatred towards Count Dooku, his views on the Jedi Order holding him back in terms of his teachings, all lead to his downward spiral.

 

When Palpatine first confronted him and told him that they could save Padme he could have been on the fence deciding whether or not to trust him and abandon his teachings up to that point. It wasn't until he saw Mace Windu about to kill his only hope of saving Padme that it became real to him that he had to join at that exact time. After saving Palpatine he was barraged with lies and slander about the Jedi Order.

 

It wasn't just one particular event that lead to his demise but rather a series of occurences and situations. From the beginning of his relationship with Padme he knew that is was forbidden but I guess he just let his emotions take over and ultimately control his destiny.

If you really watched them, you will know that its over the course of the three movies Anakin slowly turns to the darkside it didn't just happen instantly it happened over all 3 movies.

If you really watched them, you will know that its over the course of the three movies Anakin slowly turns to the darkside it didn't just happen instantly it happened over all 3 movies.

 

I saw and acknowledged the slow spiral over the three movies. I was referring more to the moment he turned when he went from reporting Sidious to Mace to "eff it, I'll go kill children". That seemed abrupt to me. Tuskan children, I could understand. They murdered his mother, as far as he was concerned. But I just had hangups with the "I will do whatever you ask" part that immediately followed Mace's death.

the question is:

 

Would you BUTCHER INFANTS to save your wife for something you dont really know is going to happen?

and if so, would you be able to keep your wife if she knows that you did BUTCHER INFANTS.

You must be really psychotic imho.

the question is:

 

Would you BUTCHER INFANTS to save your wife for something you dont really know is going to happen?

and if so, would you be able to keep your wife if she knows that you did BUTCHER INFANTS.

You must be really psychotic imho.

 

THAT, my friend, is what I'm talking about! Someone explain that to me.

the question is:

 

Would you BUTCHER INFANTS to save your wife for something you dont really know is going to happen?

and if so, would you be able to keep your wife if she knows that you did BUTCHER INFANTS.

You must be really psychotic imho.

 

Heard of people doing worse when having an emotional breakdown. Anakin has all the hallmarks of being in one when he goes off to the Jedi Temple.

 

Worst-case example off the top of my head is a woman mentally snapping and drowning all five of her children in an attempt to save their souls. Personally, one at a time, in their bathtub.

 

Do we really think that Anakin was thinking with a clear head throughout the end sequence of that movie? Seriously?

 

He had a psychotic break, but that doesn't necessarily mean he had a psychosis. Likely did for a short time after, though. Or maybe even longer, who knows. But right up until that 'off the bridge with you, sanity' point, nah.

So playing SWTOR kind of infected me with the Star Wars virus and I decided to watch the prequels again.

 

No matter how many times I watch them, I just don't see the transition from Jedi to Dark side as believable for Anakin. I get that he was worried about Padme and he was always kind of an emo, whiny ***** (as portrayed in the prequels), but it just seems like at some point he went "EFF it, I'm going evil" without a lot of probably cause. Sidius admitted that he didn't have the power to save Padme yet. He said they could "discover it".

 

One minute Anakin is threatening to turn in the Senator as a Sith Lord, someone who had been a supporter and friend for some time, the next he is lopping off Mace's hand and agreeing to go kill children at the Jedi Temple.

 

I'm not saying it's not plausible. I blame Lucas for the lack of build-up to that point.

 

On a different note, I have been watching the Clone Wars series and it is awesome. Anakin is portrayed in a much better light in that series, as are the other characters and the action is great.

 

 

 

I think that all of this can be summed up by the old saying, "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

 

Anakin's intentions were noble, but he became obsessed with preventing Padmae 's death. He let all other moralities fall away to try and win that one prize. Palpatine played on that, and Anakin's emotional insecurities.

 

In the end, Anakin's own obsession led him to make choices that "the end justifies the means." He acted on that when it seemed that Palpatine's "knowledge" would be taken away.

 

Sorry for all of the cliches, but they fit the scenario well.