Not asking to revive the pointless debate over whether this is a "good idea" or not. I'm just curious whether those who think about such things at Bioware have thought about doing this, and if so whether they considered and rejected it, or whether it's something that might come in at some point.

Of course EvE Online has had PLEX forever, but now it seems this idea has become more of a mainstream thing, with several new games having it in at launch (e.g., Wildstar, Archeage). Even old-as-the-hills Anarchy Online just rolled out a version of it with the "GRACE" in-game subscription token, after more than a decade without it.

For whatever reason game developers recently seem very drawn to this device, especially for games that run on a hybrid F2P with an optional sub model. Will SWTOR jump on the bandwagon as well?

No you could buy a free subscription over time if you collect enough achievement CCs so it's likely that won't happen.

Most games that have done this make it so that the item can be bought from the developer only by making a direct cash (credit card) purchase through your account management page. They typically are not sold for token currencies like CC, but once you buy one for cash you can redeem or claim it through the in-game cash shop, then either use it yourself or sell it on the auction house for in-game currency.

Those who buy one off the auction house can typically only resell it for in-game credits or consume it to get the subscription time; there is generally no reverse process to turn it back into cash (though some games will let you buy meta services like renames, or in the case of EvE even a ticket to their annual convention with it).

Most games that have done this make it so that the item can be bought from the developer only by making a direct cash (credit card) purchase through your account management page. They typically are not sold for token currencies like CC, but once you buy one for cash you can redeem or claim it through the in-game cash shop, then either use it yourself or sell it on the auction house for in-game currency.

 

Those who buy one off the auction house can typically only resell it for in-game credits or consume it to get the subscription time; there is generally no reverse process to turn it back into cash (though some games will let you buy meta services like renames, or in the case of EvE even a ticket to their annual convention with it).

You do release they would loose money from this? It's not gaining anything if you buy it with in-game currency.

they would lose nothing.

player A buys 30 days gametime for cash

player A lists it for sale for creds instead of redeeming it

Player B buys it and redeems it.

1 cash transaction, 1 30 day subscription redeemed

You do release they would loose money from this? It's not gaining anything if you buy it with in-game currency.

umm... not really.

1. these currencies usualy are sold for 25% more than direct subscription. so that would be $20 purchases instead of 15.

2. right now people buy packs etc to sell on GTN to get "easy" credits. this will add additional option for people who do that

3. it may end up resulting in more subscriptions rather than less, since people with rl money will buy those to sell to people with lots of time (or desire) to make in game credits.

its a win/win for bioware.

and yes, they would need to sell it directly, not in cartel market for maximum profit.

tldr version - before it could be bought for in game currency - someone needs to pay real life cash for it. in other words - bioware still gets money for that month of subscription, more money than for regular subscription in fact

No you could buy a free subscription over time if you collect enough achievement CCs so it's likely that won't happen.

Yes, of course that would happen... with the incredible dozens of CCs you can make through achievements. Of all the arguments against this, that isn't even a slightly realistic one.

Yes, of course that would happen... with the incredible dozens of CCs you can make through achievements. Of all the arguments against this, that isn't even a slightly realistic one.

He is talking about subscribers who get a monthly grant.

Due to friend referrals I sometimes get several thousand CC in a month...

He is talking about subscribers who get a monthly grant.

Due to friend referrals I sometimes get several thousand CC in a month...

The OP already offered an alternative for that though; skip the CC and make it a direct purchase through the website.

But people are still responding to his original post.

(And yes, making it CC would be a bad idea for the reasons you mentioned)

I feel there shouldn't be any free(=in-game credits) subscription for anyone.

To start with, that's grossly unfair. (Buying cartel cosmetic stuff is acceptable to me, but not this).

That also possibly means the token buyers will be able to buy a year of subscription or more, when a normal subscriber can only buy six months.

That also means that the players will have even more interest in grinding credits, which means, well... for me, it takes any fun out of the game, if instead of playing like I like to play and earning one million a day I'll be grinding and trying to earn five because MUST HAVE FREE SUBSCRIPTION! Gods, please, don't ruin the game.

I tend to pay for a 2 month non-recurring sub every now and then, that way, if they don't bring in anything fun to do, i just let the time remaining to run out.

This game gets pretty dull after completing the class story, i mean i was hoping that the 'story oriented' mmo would be more than just repeating the same content over and over and over again when you get to max level, i personally want more pve story content that is fully soloable.

If they bring out more fun story content that i can do at my own pace, the more money i will put into it, assuming they get that disconnection issue fixed without me needing to delete the cache file every single time i log into the game.

I feel there shouldn't be any free(=in-game credits) subscription for anyone.

 

To start with, that's grossly unfair. (Buying cartel cosmetic stuff is acceptable to me, but not this).

 

That also possibly means the token buyers will be able to buy a year of subscription or more, when a normal subscriber can only buy six months.

 

That also means that the players will have even more interest in grinding credits, which means, well... for me, it takes any fun out of the game, if instead of playing like I like to play and earning one million a day I'll be grinding and trying to earn five because MUST HAVE FREE SUBSCRIPTION! Gods, please, don't ruin the game.

They will not do it, so don't worry, if they did this, then everyone would be doing this and bioware would get no profit at all, which would kill the game and i think it would put the sense into them to go back to kotor style RPGs and not mmo games.

The OP already offered an alternative for that though; skip the CC and make it a direct purchase through the website.

But people are still responding to his original post.

(And yes, making it CC would be a bad idea for the reasons you mentioned)

I know.. I wasn't commenting on that.

I was merely pointing out that the person I quoted completely missed the point.

They will not do it, so don't worry, if they did this, then everyone would be doing this and bioware would get no profit at all, which would kill the game and i think it would put the sense into them to go back to kotor style RPGs and not mmo games.

Why is it so hard for people to understand that Bioware would get the money in the end anyway.

It's not like the subscription time tokens would appear out of thin air for people.

In the end, someone has paid real money for the token.

So bioware won't lose a dime on it.

The only difference is that some players will have a subscription without paying a dime of real money for it.

But that subscription has been paid for by someone. Namely the one that bought the token to sell it.

I feel there shouldn't be any free(=in-game credits) subscription for anyone.

 

To start with, that's grossly unfair. (Buying cartel cosmetic stuff is acceptable to me, but not this).

 

That also possibly means the token buyers will be able to buy a year of subscription or more, when a normal subscriber can only buy six months.

 

That also means that the players will have even more interest in grinding credits, which means, well... for me, it takes any fun out of the game, if instead of playing like I like to play and earning one million a day I'll be grinding and trying to earn five because MUST HAVE FREE SUBSCRIPTION! Gods, please, don't ruin the game.

It wouldn't change much since it's up to the person playing the game how they want to buy their subscription.

You could still just buy your subscription for real money and ignore the grind you'd have to do to buy it with in-game cash.

Sure, the people who can't or doesn't want to pay for a subscription would have to grind... but that's their choice. You could STILL play F2P without it.

No you could buy a free subscription over time if you collect enough achievement CCs so it's likely that won't happen.

A month's subscription would probably be around 1500-2000 CC. Achievements give 20 CC apiece, and there's a very limited amount of those that do; I doubt you could get even 1000 CC from all of them combined.

You do release they would loose money from this? It's not gaining anything if you buy it with in-game currency.

You do realize someone has to buy it for real money first? They don't just materialize on the GTN out of thin air.

That also possibly means the token buyers will be able to buy a year of subscription or more, when a normal subscriber can only buy six months.

Why does that even matter?

To start with, that's grossly unfair. (Buying cartel cosmetic stuff is acceptable to me, but not this).

 

That also means that the players will have even more interest in grinding credits, which means, well... for me, it takes any fun out of the game, if instead of playing like I like to play and earning one million a day I'll be grinding and trying to earn five because MUST HAVE FREE SUBSCRIPTION! Gods, please, don't ruin the game.

I imagine the price for the subscription would be such that it takes an hour or more of grinding credits every day for a month. In most of the Western world, even minimum-wage employees only need to work three or four hours to earn enough real money (after taxes) for a subscription. What exactly is unfair here and towards whom?

If you think you "must" have a "free" subscription and it's ruining your game, maybe you should have your priorities checked.

You do release they would loose money from this? It's not gaining anything if you buy it with in-game currency.

You're missing the point, someone has to buy the item using real money, just the same as when people buy the game time cards. Then, someone uses it to activate subscribed time. It doesn't matter to EA/BW whether it's the same person buying it as using it, as long as they get their money.

In accounting terms, it's probably far less problematic than selling stuff for cartel coins and giving away "free" coins -- John Smedley over at Sony Online Entertainment (the company that makes the EverQuest games, DC Heroes, Planetfall etc) wrote as much when they tried to change that system, in that the unspent coin has to be accounted as a company liability.

You do release they would loose money from this? It's not gaining anything if you buy it with in-game currency.

No they aren't. Someone is paying for the subscription then selling it in game to another player. BW/EA looses nothing. The only problem is that CREDD in Wildstar is selling for way too cheap. It's value isn't what it should be for the 20.00 it costs.

No they aren't. Someone is paying for the subscription then selling it in game to another player. BW/EA looses nothing. The only problem is that CREDD in Wildstar is selling for way too cheap. It's value isn't what it should be for the 20.00 it costs.

Maybe Wildstar's players are trying to support the game a bit too much?

Maybe Wildstar's players are trying to support the game a bit too much?

Yeah, I think they do because I do not know anyone anymore that still plays it

Not asking to revive the pointless debate over whether this is a "good idea" or not. I'm just curious whether those who think about such things at Bioware have thought about doing this, and if so whether they considered and rejected it, or whether it's something that might come in at some point.

I support a token that could be bought from the cartel market that is equal to 30 days sub. It is a nice gift to a friend that somehow can´t afford to play for some reason.

Maybe i am overthinking this - but if they did this (allowed subs to be sold on the CM for creds) - wouldn't Cred spammers increase by like 10 fold? I know you can block them, but still.

Pricing would have to be balanced such that it was not cheaper/easier to get credits this way. As long as it wasn't more economical to simply buy sub tokens and sell them on the GTN than their current methods, it should not really affect them. As it is there must be a lot of people out there who don't pay attention to the exchange rates, as the spam I see about it offer fewer credits per dollar than I could earn buying things on the CM and listing them on the GTN.

I think, if done right, this would be a fine addition. I don't feel strongly it should be added, but I also don't think it would hurt anything so long as it was balanced. For myself, it would probably mean that every once in a while, rather than blowing excess credits buying overpriced cool stuff on the GTN for no good reason, I would instead blow excess credits buying a free months sub and use my $15 to buy something in real life I don't need just for fun. Bioware would still get all of it's money, but a little less of it would be mine.

No you could buy a free subscription over time if you collect enough achievement CCs so it's likely that won't happen.

hahahahahahahahahaha please! Monthly sub would be about a thousand coins. I think all achievements reward you less than that.

It works for EVE because on EVE when you die you lose everything!

imagine you needed new gear each time you wiped on mission....

So instead of grinding cash people purchase PLEX with real $$ and sell it for in game currency to save them the time.

At any rate eve is extremely economic oriented and everything you do including ganking and griefing in there is around money.

For swtor it is not needed cause you also got F2P options. Beside on EVE when you want 2 or more characthers on same account u need to use PLEX to train them while in SWTOR I can have 22 alts on same server on same account.