you want a pull? Because Saber Throw and Force Leap aren't pulls?

OP title is weak and non specific , they both have their pros.

 

Jugg;

Higher Mitigation when geared properly.

Faster positioning and re-engaging of the boss through charge.

Better deffensive CD's

Armor Debuff on boss

 

Assasin:

Higher HP helps against internal damage

Force speed helps to proactively more to where the boss will be.

Ability to cloak out of certain boss effects

CC ability (Best of the Inquisitor attributes IMO)

Pull-2nd best of the inquisitor abilities

 

PT:

 

Huge Damage

Aoe Threat

Pull

 

Other than that I think if anyone is @ a disadvantage its PT's

Edited October 4, 2012 by Jholiday

hi i saw lot of people talking about 30/50/50 for jugg. can somebody please tell me where does it come from? is there any article or some charts showing this?

 

thanks

Geared, speced and played properly, of course Guardian tanks are viable. They are totally solid.

 

But you are crazy if you think our PvE utility holds up to the other two tanks.

 

Pull is so much better than push for trash encounters. Stealth and cc blow away friendly leap (seriously, who uses this!) Don't get me wrong, these abilities are awesome in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.

 

As for leap, storm, speed: they are the gap closers. We all get one, they have pluses and minuses.

Geared, speced and played properly, of course Guardian tanks are viable. They are totally solid.

 

But you are crazy if you think our PvE utility holds up to the other two tanks.

 

Pull is so much better than push for trash encounters. Stealth and cc blow away friendly leap (seriously, who uses this!) Don't get me wrong, these abilities are awesome in PvP, but in PvE I seldom if ever use them.

 

As for leap, storm, speed: they are the gap closers. We all get one, they have pluses and minuses.

 

Juggs have the best CD's for tanking. Your friendly leap reduces dmg taken by 20%, you should be useing it on stuff like the person who gets targeted with the lasers on TFB Kephass.

 

Juggs are the hardest tank to play, yet, the most rewarding. They have the best overall mitigation and CD's of any of the classes.

Juggs have the best CD's for tanking. Your friendly leap reduces dmg taken by 20%, you should be useing it on stuff like the person who gets targeted with the lasers on TFB Kephass.

 

Juggs are the hardest tank to play, yet, the most rewarding. They have the best overall mitigation and CD's of any of the classes.

 

My understanding was that assassins have those things you just said (best CDs, hardest, but best when played well). Do you have evidence favoring juggs?

I take issue with these two things.

 

Juggs achieve this stat with just standard gearing, whereas an example of an Assassin tank, they need to regularly use an ability called Dark Ward which costs force to keep their shield chance about 50%. I have a sin tank, even with the campaign set bonus my Shield chance is as 40% without DW while Defense is 35 and absorption is 60. A sin that has 35/60/60 is pretty solid from my experience, and the Juggernauts when Min/max can achieve this same stat base.

 

My shadow is sitting at 28/ 50/ 60 full campaign gear (with rakata fort stim) with the correct mods, enhancements (save for one, need to replace a Vigilant Enhancement with a Bulwark) and augmented (9 defense, 4 shield 1 absorb) and mathematically having 28/ 70 (with KW)/ 60 is better than being 35/60/60, especially with the DR on Defense being higher than the DR on Shield

 

Sin HP Min Max 25-26k

 

My sin's HP min-maxed is 24k. with the stim + trooper buff when specced into Mental Fortitude/ Shroud of Darkness and 23.6k when I replace those three points with Expertise/ Electric Execution.

OP title is weak and non specific , they both have their pros.

 

Jugg;

Higher Mitigation when geared properly.

Faster positioning and re-engaging of the boss through charge.

Better deffensive CD's

Armor Debuff on boss

 

Assasin:

Higher HP helps against internal damage

Force speed helps to proactively more to where the boss will be.

Ability to cloak out of certain boss effects

CC ability (Best of the Inquisitor attributes IMO)

Pull-2nd best of the inquisitor abilities

 

PT:

 

Huge Damage

Aoe Threat

Pull

 

Other than that I think if anyone is @ a disadvantage its PT's

 

oooo nice post jholiday. I want to try

 

Jugg;

some mitigation, sometimes I think right?

slowest reposting, useless leep

uhhh cooldowns. there are a few but they are garbage. blade something? force something else? it lowers ur threat and causes ur party to wipe

worst tank

good dps

looks like classical mmo tank type with good outfit

 

Assasin:

Highest mitigation but least tanky

force speed is kind of bad compared to leaps

no defensive cooldowns except for a debuff

unreliable pull, good ranged damage

good aoe threat generation

best tank but usually about as bad as jug tank

using cloak machine is hilarious for wiping your party during boss

outfits look to girly

 

PT:

short Damage rotation

Aoe Threat sometimes

Pull

medium mitigation but better than juggernaut or assassin

boba fett class

ranged blaster for reposting

fast click speed

least likely to be worst tank

 

In the end you can tank any content with any of the tanks. Yes the juggernaut is much worse than the other 2 but he is still good enough most of the time if he is played by a really good player. The thing that slows down the juggernaut is there are fewer really good players than one would like. There are a lot of crappy juggernaut tanks that are pretty borderline that are played by people who think they are good though. Unless the situation gets tricky cross ur fingers and hope it's enough.

 

powertech is easiest tank and since all tanks are good enough that means he is usually best tank.

 

Assassin is the best tank but that almost never happens. Sometimes he is the worst tank no matter what like on the foreman that crushes dudes.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Hatstandard

oooo nice post jholiday. I want to try

 

Jugg;

1. some mitigation, sometimes I think right?

2. slowest reposting, useless leep

3. uhhh cooldowns. there are a few but they are garbage. blade something? force something else? it lowers ur threat and causes ur party to wipe

worst tank

good dps

looks like classical mmo tank type with good outfit

 

In the end you can tank any content with any of the tanks. Yes the juggernaut is much worse than the other 2 but he is still good enough most of the time if he is played by a really good player. The thing that slows down the juggernaut is there are fewer really good players than one would like. There are a lot of crappy juggernaut tanks that are pretty borderline that are played by people who think they are good though. Unless the situation gets tricky cross ur fingers and hope it's enough.

 

powertech is easiest tank and since all tanks are good enough that means he is usually best tank.

 

Assassin is the best tank but that almost never happens. Sometimes he is the worst tank no matter what like on the foreman that crushes dudes.

 

I numbered the points you made regarding the 3 tank ACs and have some comments to add:

Juggernauts

1. Jugg mitigation - lots of defense but chance of shielding is very low compared to Assassins

2. Leap - hardly useless if you use it correctly

3. Defensive Cooldowns - there are some good ones actually ( but they have a ridiculous cd time, 90 seconds, 120 seconds ) such as Invincible, Saber Ward, Endure Pain.

 

Overall I'd say that Assassins have the best active survivability - their defensive cooldowns are boss - but that Juggernauts have a higher passive survivability. The only issue is that if you're doing HM EC or HM TfB you're not newb enough to be only relying on passive mitigation, so the Assassin has a clear advantage. The only advantage I can think of that a Jug has compared to a Tanksassin is that Jugs have more abilities that raise their threat - seriously, anyone who can't hold threat as a Jug is really really really bad.

 

P.S: Enraged Defense? The ability that causes you to lose aggro? That's meant to help with tank swaps or solo play, it's not something any player with half a brain would misuse and cause a wipe with.

Edited October 5, 2012 by AshlaBoga

The only advantage I can think of that a Jug has compared to a Tanksassin is that Jugs have more abilities that raise their threat - seriously, anyone who can't hold threat as a Jug is really really really bad.

 

Parses show that on average Juggs/ Guardians generate less DPS and Threat than both Shadows/ Sins and PTs/ Vanguards, and usually have to cycle a taunt or two in their rotations to maintain throughout certain fights.

 

That said, pretty much any well-played and well-geared Sentinel/ Mara can pull off any tank that doesn't cycle taunts in their rotations or guard them (sometimes, they'll even pull with the guard).

Juggurnaut Tanks still make better tanks than the Jedi Guardian's do at least at the lower levels. My level 13 Jug can take on an elite 2 levels above it. While my level 16 Guardian Tank cant even take down a elite at the same level as she is, and I have all the best gear for that level on it. Plus the opponent is melee based which the Guardian should be strong against. So while the Jug Tank is not as good as the Assassin Tank (Which my main character is by the way). It still has its uses and can be very effective if used by the right player. All the Jug tanks I have teamed up with have out lasted everyone in my groups except for maybe myself, and thats pretty good from where I am standing.

Juggurnaut Tanks still make better tanks than the Jedi Guardian's do at least at the lower levels. My level 13 Jug can take on an elite 2 levels above it. While my level 16 Guardian Tank cant even take down a elite at the same level as she is, and I have all the best gear for that level on it. ...

This doesn't really make sense to me. The two classes are effectively mirrors, so with a similar build, rotation and gear they should be on a par with one another.

Edited October 6, 2012 by Khevar

In regards to aggro... all of the tanks (if played by a good player) can hold aggro against smart dps. That said, I have yet to meet a tank that can hold aggro without two taunts + guard or a yoink from a sorc from my carnage mara. If anything, to fix perceived aggro issues, I would rather see that marauders have a more consistent threat drop (force camo is great, but I use it once and then pull hate right back) as they do seem to be the only class that has a real issue with threat.

Each tanking ac imo are pretty similar in that they all have cons and pro's, juggs in my personal opinion are extremely easy to heal and very good single target tanks (try running a merc or operative with a jugg, the flash healing meshes very well with a jugg). PT's are the best dps for a tank for sure (and therefore aggro) while also taking a very incremental amount of damage. Sin's have amazing AoE threat, and some really sweet short cd survival cooldowns.

Well jugs R missing something 2 make them more useful there nothing I do better then other tanks

 

(Skill other Tanks Hav Jugs Dont)

Assassions hav Force Speed. Pull, Range skills. Stealth, and a Out on combat CC

Powertech hav Pull, Range Skills, and Higher Damage, Endurance boost in Skill tree

 

Both hav a higher list of useful skill then a Jug. Having Pull or something would even it out a bit jugs R less useful then others .

 

You have force charge, force push, heavy armor, and a MS modifier in your tanking skills. You charge to a target, push them and charge again sounds similar to a pull. You have heavier armor than Sin tanks. You can have 2000 strength in tank form, while Sin tanks cap out a 1700ish. You sound like you have all abilites that other tanks have. And you're complaining about HP? You also have ranged abilities...ever heard of saber throw?

Edited October 6, 2012 by Pplwithnolives

Juggurnaut Tanks still make better tanks than the Jedi Guardian's do at least at the lower levels. My level 13 Jug can take on an elite 2 levels above it. While my level 16 Guardian Tank cant even take down a elite at the same level as she is, and I have all the best gear for that level on it. Plus the opponent is melee based which the Guardian should be strong against. So while the Jug Tank is not as good as the Assassin Tank (Which my main character is by the way). It still has its uses and can be very effective if used by the right player. All the Jug tanks I have teamed up with have out lasted everyone in my groups except for maybe myself, and thats pretty good from where I am standing.

juggs and guardians are the same class.........

oooo nice post jholiday. I want to try

 

Jugg;

some mitigation, sometimes I think right?

slowest reposting, useless leep

uhhh cooldowns. there are a few but they are garbage. blade something? force something else? it lowers ur threat and causes ur party to wipe

worst tank

good dps

looks like classical mmo tank type with good outfit

 

Assasin:

Highest mitigation but least tanky

force speed is kind of bad compared to leaps

no defensive cooldowns except for a debuff

unreliable pull, good ranged damage

good aoe threat generation

best tank but usually about as bad as jug tank

using cloak machine is hilarious for wiping your party during boss

outfits look to girly

 

PT:

short Damage rotation

Aoe Threat sometimes

Pull

medium mitigation but better than juggernaut or assassin

boba fett class

ranged blaster for reposting

fast click speed

least likely to be worst tank

 

In the end you can tank any content with any of the tanks. Yes the juggernaut is much worse than the other 2 but he is still good enough most of the time if he is played by a really good player. The thing that slows down the juggernaut is there are fewer really good players than one would like. There are a lot of crappy juggernaut tanks that are pretty borderline that are played by people who think they are good though. Unless the situation gets tricky cross ur fingers and hope it's enough.

 

powertech is easiest tank and since all tanks are good enough that means he is usually best tank.

 

Assassin is the best tank but that almost never happens. Sometimes he is the worst tank no matter what like on the foreman that crushes dudes.

 

THe juggernaut isn't bad. The person who plays it is. Useless CDs? They take 40% lass dmg for 10 secs and that's a bad cd? Much better than Sin and PT CDs. All tanks are equal. They have pros and cons and are better at something than the other 2 are.

Your friendly leap reduces dmg taken by 20%, you should be using it on stuff like the person who gets targeted with the lasers on TFB Kephass.

2. Friendly Leap - hardly useless if you use it correctly

 

Look, I'm not ragging on Guard/Jugg tanks. I love 'em, they rock. I'm just saying their PvE utility is lacking.

 

I would LOVE some other examples of using friendly leap in boss encounters (trash should not be causing issues). I'm always worried about pulling the boss out of position with it.

 

The Kephess example is lost on me. I only saw this encounter once before we all went to bed and it was a major CF.

Look, I'm not ragging on Guard/Jugg tanks. I love 'em, they rock. I'm just saying their PvE utility is lacking.

 

I would LOVE some other examples of using friendly leap in boss encounters (trash should not be causing issues). I'm always worried about pulling the boss out of position with it.

 

The Kephess example is lost on me. I only saw this encounter once before we all went to bed and it was a major CF.

 

Re-positioning Toth and Zorn. Threat reduction on DPS that pulls quite a bit of aggro during virtually any fight (use mostly if the Guardian/ Jugg is the off-tank for that particular phase).

 

But yes, this is marginally useful. Just like Combat Stealth is marginally useful for Shadows (I use it mostly to reset the limit on my med-pac mostly, or as a ninja rez.)

I would LOVE some other examples of using friendly leap in boss encounters (trash should not be causing issues). I'm always worried about pulling the boss out of position with it.

 

It's a general threat reducer and dmg mitigation buff, so that's nice in general. Specific boss mechanics where it can be put to use:

 

Returning Toth to position.

Instantly rotating Stormcaller's turret during Double Destruction.

Getting puzzle-solving tank into Vorgath fight with maximum speed.

Reducing damage Warstrider bomber during Kephess fight.

Moving quickly across lava during Gharj encounter.

Moving quickly back to outer ring during Soa encounter.

Getting out of range of 'Doom' in 2nd Boss of TFB.

 

There are probably others - it's a versatile ability that definitely gets under-used in PvE.

juggs and guardians are the same class.........

While this is true, the guardian starts with a lame tank droid while the jugga´s got vette. And vette´s skillset blows every other dps companion at that level out of the water.

So the jugga feels way stronger than the guard because of his starting companion.

A good player can take any tank in this game and excel with it. The classes are all pretty solid. Stat counting and min maxing are fun. No doubt, but there is no situation where a particular tank just can't do the job (Like we had in wow where only DKs could do Vezax because they were the only tank with applicable cooldown CDs). Edited December 7, 2012 by Blackardin

Juggurnaut Tanks still make better tanks than the Jedi Guardian's do at least at the lower levels. My level 13 Jug can take on an elite 2 levels above it. While my level 16 Guardian Tank cant even take down a elite at the same level as she is, and I have all the best gear for that level on it. Plus the opponent is melee based which the Guardian should be strong against. So while the Jug Tank is not as good as the Assassin Tank (Which my main character is by the way). It still has its uses and can be very effective if used by the right player. All the Jug tanks I have teamed up with have out lasted everyone in my groups except for maybe myself, and thats pretty good from where I am standing.

 

This has nothing to do with the differences in Guardian and Juggernaut as they're essentially the same, and everything to do with the companion each gets. Vette is about 35% better at damage dealing than the Droid and has a better selection for gear, making her an overall better companion.

 

In quest/solo play the Jugg has a clear advantage early on. But in 4 person flashpoints they both play the same and perform the same.

 

(stupid spellchecker)

Edited December 11, 2012 by DwainD

Oddly enough of the 3 tanks I've found that Powertechs are the ones I never see.

 

I've raided with Legacy of Bane, Rage, Infernal Harvest, Terror/Jivanikas, and never seen one Powertech tank (Powertank) for Operations or Nightmare Pilgrim.

 

Have I seen a Powertank for Gargath and PD? Yes. Have I seen a Powertank for Tier 1 HM FPs? Yes.

Have I seen a Powertank for any Operation (even Story EV) and HM LI? Nope.

 

Maybe there just weren't many on Ajunta Pall and just aren't many on Jung Ma, but I find it telling that there's so few of them.

 

I've done HM EC with 2xTanksassins and a Juggernaut+Tanksassin. I haven't done it with 2xJugg but I did Nightmare KP with 2 Juggs and that was faceroll, even in a Columi-Rakata mix.

 

I'm an Officer in Infernal Harvest (Gloom) and I have one of each tank. I've completed HM TFB with both Annaconda (Powertech) and Gloom (Assassin) and I'll be running on Toxic (Juggernaut) tonight. I have preferences due to playstyles, but all 3 tanks are "Viable".

This has nothing to do with the differences in Guardian and Juggernaut as they're essentially the same, and everything to do with the companion each gets. Vette is about 35% better at damage dealing than the Droid and has a better selection for gear, making her an overall better companion.

 

In quest/solo play the Jugg has a clear advantage early on. But in 4 person flashpoints they both play the same and perform the same.

 

(stupid spellchecker)

 

You're comparing a ranged DPS companion with a ranged Tank companion, of course Vette is going to deal more damage. However, T7 can be your own personal meat (or rather circuitry) shield and essentially double your HP pool.

A good player can take any tank in this game and excel with it. The classes are all pretty solid. Stat counting and min maxing are fun. No doubt, but there is no situation where a particular tank just can't do the job (Like we had in wow where only DKs could do Vezax because they were the only tank with applicable cooldown CDs).

 

You can excel with any tank in this game, but the classes are not as solid as they seem. Guardians, especially due to faulty defense tree have big problems holding threat and this denies the dps their full rotation execution the first 30 seconds of the fight resulting in a significant dps loss or loss of aggro. This was not meant in any way to happen by Bioware, and I think with new level cap they'll be taking measures to fixing this.